[DonF]

I have been looking here for quite a while and have a 8x12 Lathe and X3 mill.

Bought the X3 about a year and a half ago because I didn't want to jump just into CNC then with the new products like the SX3 or Syil x4 or x5 coming to market.
I'm plenty happy with it as a manual machine, but am again wondering about doing a CNC retrofit.
As a mechanic by trade not a machinist, I now realize that the biggest obstacle might not be the machine but its operator! So it might not be the best thing to have a large investment right away. Maybe something to piddle with then if I like it or use it often enough then jump into something else.

I want to start building a controller for the conversion, before tearing into the x3. That way I have the use of the X3 till the very last.

Keeping with the budget them here

KL-6050 seem to be the choice at about $60 ea x 3

So I have seen recommendations here from 36V to way on up for the power supply for use with X3's. Power supplies seem to be available in 24-36-48-56 volts on up but that's about it spec wise that can be used with those drivers. Performance wise I probably don't care about super fast at 1st, but want something that functions without straining too.

Keling recommends a 36V 8.8 Amp PS in their x3 package --> http://www.kelinginc.net/Three34XCNCPackage.html

I all ready know that I want to use the C11G board instead of what Keling recommended--> http://cnc4pc.com/Tech_Docs/C11G_&_S...0storybook.pdf

So would the power supply recommended by Keling be missing the boat? Is this a situation where $50 more can make a drastic difference?

The enclosure that all this has to go in, other than an old PC case is there something that can be purchased reasonable?

[Crevice Reamer]

Hi Don! To pick a PSU, you have to take everything into account. First, What is most efficient Voltage for motor? You will want to run the motors wired Bipolar Parallel.

Formula for that is 32 times square root of inductance in mH.

Next you have to factor in the max voltage of the driver. The 6050 can only handle up to 60V.

The N34 is a 64V motor, so would work fairly well with 60V. It's a 5.5A motor and the driver is only rated to 5A, so you will lose a little torque--Down to 582 oz from 640--Not TOO bad.

But the 425 is a 84V motor and will be undervolted at 60V and SERIOUSLY undervolted at 36V.

I recommend you go with the 65V 387 oz KL23H284-35-4B instead.

Now if your drives would stand it, a 65V PSU would be the ideal. But the drives are maxed out at 60V and probably should not be pushed quite THAT high, so the $139 KL5413 would be your best PSU bet. This will also have reserve capacity to power a 4th axis should you add one in the future.

Keling "Kits" don't really save you money over individual parts--So feel free to mix and match to get the best parts for YOU.

CR.

[TOTALLYRC]

I have been looking here for quite a while and have a 8x12 Lathe and X3 mill.

Bought the X3 about a year and a half ago because I didn't want to jump just into CNC then with the new products like the SX3 or Syil x4 or x5 coming to market.
I'm plenty happy with it as a manual machine, but am again wondering about doing a CNC retrofit.
As a mechanic by trade not a machinist, I now realize that the biggest obstacle might not be the machine but its operator! So it might not be the best thing to have a large investment right away. Maybe something to piddle with then if I like it or use it often enough then jump into something else.

I want to start building a controller for the conversion, before tearing into the x3. That way I have the use of the X3 till the very last.

Keeping with the budget them here

KL-6050 seem to be the choice at about $60 ea x 3

So I have seen recommendations here from 36V to way on up for the power supply for use with X3's. Power supplies seem to be available in 24-36-48-56 volts on up but that's about it spec wise that can be used with those drivers. Performance wise I probably don't care about super fast at 1st, but want something that functions without straining too.

Keling recommends a 36V 8.8 Amp PS in their x3 package --> http://www.kelinginc.net/Three34XCNCPackage.html

I all ready know that I want to use the C11G board instead of what Keling recommended--> http://cnc4pc.com/Tech_Docs/C11G_&_S...0storybook.pdf

So would the power supply recommended by Keling be missing the boat? Is this a situation where $50 more can make a drastic difference?

The enclosure that all this has to go in, other than an old PC case is there something that can be purchased reasonable?

Since the advent of the g540, there is no reason to settle for anything less.
Keling has a nice g540 setup and is the way to go. No need to pickout a bob, it is already included. It also has analog output to control that vfd/dc motor controler in your future. This is a case of where spending a few dollars more gets you a tremendous payoff in usability and reliability. Not to mention that the geckos have mid band instability compensation, which many other drives don't, not sure about the keling drives, but you could always ask.

I have just installed a g251 which is basically what is inside a g540, to replace a dead g201(my fault). The morphing feature of the drive ,where it goes from micro to full stepping on the fly, allowed me to go from 9000 steps/sec to 13,000/sec with no other change. I first increased the power supply voltage from 40v to 50v and was able to increase the speed only slightly.

The amps of the power supply are .66 (IIRC) of the sum of the motor amps. for example, 3 motor at 3 amps each = 9*.66=5.94 so a 6 amp supply would be fine for anything but the most demanding applications. a little more amps won't hurt, but too few is not good.
If you plan on a fourth axis later on, make sure to include it in your calculations. The voltage is where your rapid speed comes from 32*(sqrtof mh)= max motor voltage.
Their are much better explanations out there especially on the gecko website or search the zone.

[DonF]

Since the advent of the g540, there is no reason to settle for anything less.

...OK,Looked at he specs allready - maybe for a X2 but X3???? It really looked like it was not up to task for the motors even in kelings kit. Am I off base here???

[Crevice Reamer]

G540 for X3? If only wishes could make it so. The X3 needs a N34 for the heavy head lifting. I have not FOUND an N34 that will run well within the 3.5A G540 limit. They usually require 5-6A.

TWo 3.5A motors plus a 5.5A motor = 12.5A x .67 = 8.4A and THAT allows nothing for future 4th axis.

CR.

[DonF]

Hi Don! To pick a PSU, you have to take everything into account. First, What is most efficient Voltage for motor? You will want to run the motors wired Bipolar Parallel.

Formula for that is 32 times square root of inductance in mH.

Next you have to factor in the max voltage of the driver. The 6050 can only handle up to 60V.

The N34 is a 64V motor, so would work fairly well with 60V. It's a 5.5A motor and the driver is only rated to 5A, so you will lose a little torque--Down to 582 oz from 640--Not TOO bad.

But the 425 is a 84V motor and will be undervolted at 60V and SERIOUSLY undervolted at 36V.

I recommend you go with the 65V 387 oz KL23H284-35-4B instead.

Now if your drives would stand it, a 65V PSU would be the ideal. But the drives are maxed out at 60V and probably should not be pushed quite THAT high, so the $139 KL5413 would be your best PSU bet. This will also have reserve capacity to power a 4th axis should you add one in the future.

Keling "Kits" don't really save you money over individual parts--So feel free to mix and match to get the best parts for YOU.

CR.

http://www.antekinc.com/ps.html
I found PSU here and its pretty easy to pick the one that works best now that you explained the Voltage deal Big help! Thank you!

[Crevice Reamer]

Now if I was doing this conversion, I would go with my recommended motors, a KL6515 PSU and the Gecko 203Vs.

After you have fried a few lesser drives and paid to replace them, (Not to mention the non productive downtime) you will begin to see the wisdom of saving money by spending money.

CR/

[TOTALLYRC]

G540 for X3? If only wishes could make it so. The X3 needs a N34 for the heavy head lifting. I have not FOUND an N34 that will run well within the 3.5A G540 limit. They usually require 5-6A.

TWo 3.5A motors plus a 5.5A motor = 12.5A x .67 = 8.4A and THAT allows nothing for future 4th axis.

CR.

I really shouldn't type when I am sleepy. I missed the x3 part.
CR is correct.

[Crevice Reamer]

ONE of these days John is going to find us a N34 for G540. I have faith that he will--SOMEDAY. I'm sleepy too. Good night all!

CR.

[DonF]

Now if I was doing this conversion, I would go with my recommended motors, a KL6515 PSU and the Gecko 203Vs.

After you have fried a few lesser drives and paid to replace them, (Not to mention the non productive downtime) you will begin to see the wisdom of saving money by spending money.

CR/

I have read posts where the keling drives have very good circuit protection? Is this not true? John Stevenson the person who wrote up the X3-C11G pdf linked above uses them and has good things to say - He did use the 80v version though with a 65v PSU. I'm begining to see a pattern!

[bjones]

I have read posts where the keling drives have very good circuit protection? Is this not true? John Stevenson the person who wrote up the X3-C11G pdf linked above uses them and has good things to say - He did use the 80v version though with a 65v PSU. I'm begining to see a pattern!

Keling drivers are aces with Over Voltage, Over Heat, Over Current Protection.
You can spend more for american made products if you want but don't fall for the scare tactics, it's marketing 101.
You won't find any complaints about keling drivers.
Xyoltex is another story.

[DonF]

Thank you all for the advice. With the info I made out my list to purchase and feel I have made much better choices in parts

[TOTALLYRC]

Scare tactics, not me.


Just to be fair, I will only endorse a product that I have used, or a product that comes from a manufacturer that I have dealt with. I use gecko drives on several machines, have bought from Keling and can recomend them for motors as the ones I have from him work very well. I have not used his drivers and therefore won't recommend them, but I also do not talk bad about them. I also don't have enough knowledge about them to even hazard a guess as to wether they are good enough to use.

I will say that since you can get Gecko drives that have great protection, midband instability compensation, morph from micro to full step on the fly wich gives max high speed torque without the sacrifice of low speed resolution and great factory support, why settle for less. it s not like there is a $300 price difference per drive.
I also have a Xylotex and have said what needs to be said in other posts.

I am with CR on the recomendation of the G203v. After replacing a g201 with a g251(mini g203v) I would whole heartedly recomend them even for the price difference. I will also say, that being a bonehead and getting a piece of swarf inside the driver and then powering it up is not a good idea.
:withstupi DOn't even ask me how I know.:withstupi

I also have not used any other breakout board other than the candcnc mini I/O-3 which I believe has been dicontinued but might be wrong on that one. So I don't make recomendations on BOBs other than to say check for problems on the zone and ask questions before you buy.
No scare tactics at all, just my reasoned recomendations based on my personal uses and observations.

I am a big fan of the dspmc/ip also if you need to drive analog servo's and need lots of I/O. I am now have a second one for the lathe that will be a build log if you are interested.

I guess that I have been lucky and have not yet got burned or bought real junk, but if I do, you will see it here on the zone.

Mike

[bjones]

I was replying to DonF's quote from CR,

After you have fried a few lesser drives and paid to replace them, (Not to mention the non productive downtime) you will begin to see the wisdom of saving money by spending money.

CR/

with

I have read posts where the keling drives have very good circuit protection? Is this not true?

CR's insinuation that keling drivers are inferior and easy to fry. NOT TRUE!
I'm sure he hasn't used them either so giving people the impression that they are junk is totally unfair.

[DonF]

KL23H284-35-4B x 2 $118
KL34H280-55-4A x1 $89
KL-6050 x3 $180
C11G x1 $109
Ordered and paid for! Na CR was a big help explaining the formula help me figure out better choices

[Crevice Reamer]

I was replying to DonF's quote from CR,
with CR's insinuation that keling drivers are inferior and easy to fry. NOT TRUE! I'm sure he hasn't used them either so giving people the impression that they are junk is totally unfair.

I apologize if my post made you think otherwise, but I was NOT insinuating that Keling drives are junk. Please notice that I was NOT naming Keling drives in my post. Just my opinion that EVERY drive is lesser than Gecko, and many drives will fry easily.

Now that you mention Keling drives, and the thread subject drive was the 6050, It DOES have over voltage, overheat and over current protection--But WILL the drive fry if a motor cable comes loose?

Do any of the Keling drives have mid-band resonance dampning? How about microstep to full step wave morphing?

CR.

[DonF]

http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/showthread.php?t=33017
http://www.hossmachine.info/cnc_conversion.html
are the two sites that seem to be happy - along with John Stevensons X3 pdf

[TOTALLYRC]

I was replying to DonF's quote from CR,





with


CR's insinuation that keling drivers are inferior and easy to fry. NOT TRUE!
I'm sure he hasn't used them either so giving people the impression that they are junk is totally unfair.

I am sure that CR is more than capable than defending himself, but I didn't read it that way.

The keling drivers may be good and work well for many people, but I see no mention of mid band instability compensation mentioned in the specs, nor do I see the ability to morph modes on the fly. They seem to only have 1/2 or 1/8 step settings for the drive mentioned earlier. They will aslo only take 100khz input will the g203v goes to 350khz which might not make a difference for this machine but it is a difference none the less.

While inferior is a harsh statement, less capable wouldn't be out of line.
The price difference is more than I expected, but spending the extra ~$87 more per drive would be money well spent in my opinion.

If I have misread the keling specs in any way, I apoligize in advance.

Mike

[DonF]

Thank you for all the feed back- it did help. In my case though I don't need the best. I just want something to get my feet wet maybe learn a bit and have a little fun. I can think of allot worse choices for a starter cnc mill than an X3 with a 53V power supply and keling drivers! If I use the base CNC Fusion kit I'm thinking about $1500 total plus the $850 delivered I originally spent. If I follow cadmonkeys plans and DIY it gets even cheaper.
Its not made to be a fits all sort of deal. I'm happy with my X3 but it still is a made in china mill and no matter how your dress it up still will be in the end. If in the future it doesn't suit me I'm sure I can off it and step up and will have learned allot in the process.

[HackMax]

I can vouch for the Keling 6050 drives as I have 3 of them - X, Y, and Z. I rapid at 120ipm on the X and Y but only 15ipm on the Z mainly because I haven't changed that over to ball screw and and the motor pulleys are 2.6:1 per Cadmonkey's plans. I'm running them on a 38v power supply and the motors are sorely mismatched until I get a 60v power supply. It cuts easily at 2, 4, 8, and 10ipm with a .75 2 flute end mill. I haven't had the chance to find out how fast I can actually cut yet because I have had software issues with overriding the speed in Mach 3 but every new part I change the code to cut deeper and faster to see how it fares. I bought these drives just to get a cheap start into CNC but I haven't yet found a reason to replace them. And also one of the motors came unplugged from the drive and I spent 30+ minutes trying different things to figure out why the axis wouldn't move. I finally found the loose connector at the drive and pushed it back in and all was fine.

Rick