[ImanCarrot]

Just to put things in persepctive:

The only factory that makes wind turbine in England is to close with the loss of 500 jobs.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/5/20090721/...i-327c223.html

Wonder what the cost of importing a big heavy wind turbine will be. Get ready to see the demand for wind turbines plummet.

I see a contradiciton here don't you? we're all getting taxed more so that we're greener, but the only wind turbine factory in the country is closing...

[Geof]

......I see a contradiciton here don't you? we're all getting taxed more so that we're greener, but the only wind turbine factory in the country is closing...

No contradiction at all. The only way wind turbines are 'green' is if you ignore the energy that went into smelting the metals that are used in the manufacture of the turbines. The figures used to 'prove' they are green only take into account the energy used in making them from the basic bar and plate stock (and wire, etc) not the enrgy to make this stock.

So, by shutting them down carb ond emissions are reduced.

[One of Many]

Very strange Iman.

Sales up 59%, but there is a decline in demand. I'd be looking into whether there is a decline in tax breaks or other funding that was supporting another dead beat 3 legged monster that cannot make a profit on its own. The claim in sales rise can be somewhat misleading. Selling 1 last month and 2 with an option for a third this month might constitute 59% as an impressive hike, but what is their overall financial picture. Laughable new fad of a money losers desire to be Nationalized to stay employed.

Flash,

That is like saying oil that comes from the earth is free.

I've tried storing wind and sunlight for reserves……..I'm almost there. Just another 40 years of billion dollar grants will get me closer. I promise! No different than the growing green companies out there have been lobbying for last 30 years.

Even freedom isn't free. You got yours and that's good enough, eh? Are you one of those carrying more than your share of shame on America?

Do what is right for you and yours. Give up your freedom and pull the plug on your creature comforts for a clear conscience. Don't expect others to be guilted into that mindset and don't blame them for kicking and screaming being forced to lock step to the will of your elected elites that live by different rules. You are highlighting how mans ego bubbles to the top. The wrong path depends on which end of judgment you put yourself in. So far, your theories need a dictator to resolve them and you'll still find yourself at the bottom of a barrel of mammary glands sucking your thumb with no satisfaction. There is no utopia.

I continue to be dumbfounded now by the nanny state decisions that are being made. Stick around, you may get your wish. The results may make the standard of living in the former USSR look posh. Talk about greed. That didn't stop the few from taking what they can get away with. What fantasy island has a society that this can't happen?

The current spending spree makes the last administrations war costs look minor. I'd be willing to bet that a bit of CO2 release will be less damaging to future generations than the massive debt and social upheaval that is in process.

If only everything were really free! LOL!

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yxe_kwc8klw"]YouTube - Brilliant Woman Solves All of California's Problems[/ame]

DC

[flash319]

Flash,

That is like saying oil that comes from the earth is free.

By "free" I guess I mean non-renewable, the energy is free for the taking (exploiting) but will run out. Oil is not renewable since it take millions of years of solar energy to make it. Why not skip the waiting and get it directly from the source. We are not there yet, but it takes money to get there and since we live in a consumer economy then it will take the selling of sub par technology first to get to the good stuff. Moores law, look at computer technology.....

I've tried storing wind and sunlight for reserves……..I'm almost there. Just another 40 years of billion dollar grants will get me closer. I promise! No different than the growing green companies out there have been lobbying for last 30 years.

Wow that is negative. Fix it now or forget it.
It is called "investing" for a reason. Money now or you leave nothing for our kids. Earth is all there is, that is it. It took millions of years to capture that C02 to make the earth habitable today. We are undoing it in a century all for greed and luxury. Because it is "cheap".

Even freedom isn't free. You got yours and that's good enough, eh? Are you one of those carrying more than your share of shame on America?

Freedom to do what? Destroy everything so that "my" generation can live in 2000 sq/ft houses and drive Hummers? Watch thousands of people die every day because of it?

Do what is right for you and yours. Give up your freedom and pull the plug on your creature comforts for a clear conscience. YES. Comfort is something that no one will have if we continue the way we are going. Why do you deserve it more then others? Your kids?
Your "comfort" and mine must be vastly different.

Don't expect others to be guilted into that mindset and don't blame them for kicking and screaming being forced to lock step to the will of your elected elites that live by different rules. You are highlighting how mans ego bubbles to the top. The wrong path depends on which end of judgment you put yourself in. So far, your theories need a dictator to resolve them and you'll still find yourself at the bottom of a barrel of mammary glands sucking your thumb with no satisfaction. There is no utopia.

Destroying the place you live and leaving nothing for your children sounds like the wrong path to me. Maybe we need a dictator because "the people" have been doing a bang up job so far..............oh ya right more then 60% of the population does not vote.

I continue to be dumbfounded now by the nanny state decisions that are being made. Stick around, you may get your wish. The results may make the standard of living in the former USSR look posh. Talk about greed. That didn't stop the few from taking what they can get away with. What fantasy island has a society that this can't happen?

I don't have the answer but things have to change. This state of luxury in north america will come to an end. 90% of the wealth held by 2% of the population........ya lets continue on this path.........

The current spending spree makes the last administrations war costs look minor. (Ya but money not spent on war, big difference) I'd be willing to bet that a bit of CO2 (A BIT???) release will be less damaging to future generations than the massive debt and social upheaval that is in process. What generation? What will they eat?

If only everything were really free! LOL!

The sun and wind (result of the sun) are free. They are the only free energy in the universe (aside from nuclear forces). Why would you not want to "invest" in finding out how to use it. If you invested all the money pissed away on war and greed we would not be talking about this right now.

Instead lets fight over the last remaining "non-renewable" source of energy and then let our kids deal with it when it is gone. Good plan. Because I sure can't live without my 42inch plasma.........

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yxe_kwc8klw"]YouTube - Brilliant Woman Solves All of California's Problems[/ame]

DC[/QUOTE]

[One of Many]

Flash,

I think it is apperant you have far too much victimhood status issues going on there. That might get you a beer summit with the prez, but not street cred from those you espouse need reprogramming to fit your world view.

Change for the sake of change with limitations on debate and true representation is not democracy. Look around the globe. Would poverty the likes of Dictator nations really please you? Abjectly poor nations where the select few tyrants own 99% of the wealth. Saddam had what 24 Palaces and Putin had at something like 200 billion stashed away. At least in the US there is plenty greater opportunity to get some of that 2% if you choose to. If not, you have no one else to blame, but yourself.

Playing the victim is so in these days! You teach your children that for generational or cultural sufferage? :violin:

DC

[ImanCarrot]

It just makes me a bit sad that we are willing to bail out banks to the tune of billions (in the UK a billlion is a million million, in the US it's a thousand million), yet we're still conned into beleiving that we have to pay extra bloody green taxes.

Yet there was all them extra billions shloshing about? Where did they come from? where would they be now if they weren't sorting the bankers?

I'm heading to Sweden for them barbituates.

Dun get me wrong. my bussiness is doing good, as long as folk keep killing each other I'll be in profit. I make the things they use.

Fed up


Just makes sad, that's all... perhaps it's been a long day.

[flash319]

Flash,

I think it is apperant you have far too much victimhood status issues going on there. That might get you a beer summit with the prez, but not street cred from those you espouse need reprogramming to fit your world view.

What say did I have in how the world is running at the present? All I can do is try and change it for what I think is better. There is curtain logic like "don't **** where you eat" that I think everyone would agree with but I see it is not yours and I hope you are the exception.

Change for the sake of change with limitations on debate and true representation is not democracy.

Tell that to the majority that did not vote and do not care about what goes on around them. Just cry and ***** but have no constructive thinking to be seen.

Look around the globe. Would poverty the likes of Dictator nations really please you?
When did I say this? I was commenting on how people think that "democracy" is so great yet they do not participate. Without participation it does not exist and this is how big oil, corporations like Walmart and GWB cronnies.
Abjectly poor nations where the select few tyrants own 99% of the wealth. Saddam had what 24 Palaces and Putin had at something like 200 billion stashed away. At least in the US there is plenty greater opportunity to get some of that 2% if you choose to. If not, you have no one else to blame, but yourself.

You have just highlighted the problem with the US and a vast majority of the people in NA. No one to blame but yourself for not sticking it to someone or the environment for that american dream that you think you deserve. How about taking care of everyone? How about using this vast wealth to help make things better instead of trying "get yourself some".

The more I listen to you the more I feel that I am talking to someone who thinks that they deserve something at the expense of someone or something else. I feel sorry for you because you will never get what you are looking for.

Playing the victim is so in these days! You teach your children that for generational or cultural sufferage? :violin:

I teach my kids that nothing last forever but that does not mean that you should take everything to make your life the best that there ever was. Take what you need and nothing more. Be happy with less.

Solar and wind technology is the best bet that we have right now to take us past oil. I think it is a very wise decision to invest in it for future generations even if it changes our way of life.

Don't bother bashing me again. You are to caught up in the current mindset of NA to have a constructive dialog about things of this nature.

DC

quote quote quote.

[ImanCarrot]

errm, that wasn't even a proper useage of bandwidth.

However, I consider it my duty, as a Scotsman, to pass my bottle of whisky about the room (it's Talisker Single Malt and if you dun know what that is then you are indeed without taste).

Slant`e

[Geof]

.....(it's Talisker Single Malt and if you dun know what that is then you are indeed without taste).

Slant`e

Sure an it's a true Scottish distillery; owned by Diageo.

[ImanCarrot]

Everything is owned by someone.

Which is the truely honest and horrific reality of our existence.

[Quote ref: erm.. me]

[Edit] Aint Diagio a make of guitar strings? I'm sure I used to use "Ernie Balls" or "Diagio" strings with nine thou' on top E on my Strat?[/Edit]

[fizzissist]

Sure an it's a true Scottish distillery; owned by Diageo.

NYSE symbol DEO.... Closed at $62.38, up from $41 in early March...been climbing steadily...Jim Cramer has been recommending them for a long time...

At least Diageo is based in the UK....better than Japan, I'd guess.

Anyway you look at it, with the water coming from "A burn on Cnoc nan Speireag", sure looks like Scottish booze to me

[One of Many]

What say did I have in how the world is running at the present? All I can do is try and change it for what I think is better. There is curtain logic like "don't **** where you eat" that I think everyone would agree with but I see it is not yours and I hope you are the exception.

Flash,

You are proving my point. You play the victim until you can turn the tables to what you think is better. Simplistically put, shifting the victim status by creating more victims is improved equality. As long as it is you doing the bashing, that is all the better, eh? How smug of you!

Your idea of better is getting the little red book of edicts out to see what is proper and not upset your new cronies. Collective sacrifice according to King Flash’s world view of “voluntary” oppression. Keep talking, this is your totalitarian curtain logic turned into commode stew you wish to feed North Amireka!

Tell that to the majority that did not vote and do not care about what goes on around them. Just cry and ***** but have no constructive thinking to be seen.

The majority does not need to vote in an Electoral College system. It wouldn’t change the result, since it isn’t a popularity contest the media likes to paint it. Democracy works like this; we vote local people to represent us. They in turn vote on federal issues without much of our interest, leaving the majority voice of the people unheard. They also get to select like minded unelected office holders to work with them. The will of the people pretty much gets filtered out after the local vote. Washington lives to govern us despite its dismal approval ratings and the notion THEY work for US. Just another case where the elite’s ignore the will of the people and simpletons still blame the people.

When did I say this? I was commenting on how people think that "democracy" is so great yet they do not participate. Without participation it does not exist and this is how big oil, corporations like Walmart and GWB cronnies.

You stated we needed a Dictator, since “the people” were doing such a bang up job. IMHO we already have a collection of them. I’ll agree in some areas. Without participation you get subversive organizations like Acorn and SEIU helping push far left agendas under the radar much like yours. Social justice by pulling the top down will leave less of that 2%, as proven in every Socialist country ever tried. The mental collective, if everyone can’t be wealthy no one can; is the vapor rising from your stew!

You have just highlighted the problem with the US and a vast majority of the people in NA. No one to blame but yourself for not sticking it to someone or the environment for that american dream that you think you deserve. How about taking care of everyone? How about using this vast wealth to help make things better instead of trying "get yourself some".

The more I listen to you the more I feel that I am talking to someone who thinks that they deserve something at the expense of someone or something else. I feel sorry for you because you will never get what you are looking for.

You go right ahead and bash NA capitalism as a plague. Without it you need a keeper. A Supreme ruler or State to hand you everything you need and takes whatever someone else has. Where the heck do you think wealth comes from? Why does anyone else deserve it more than the one that EARNED it? If within your utopian kingdom no one was allowed to gain in trade, your economic engine would soon wither. I am not into pity parties. You feeling sorry is because I won't bend to your ideology. My pursuit of happiness is a result of my effort, risk and chance. Thankfully we do not need your spiteful approval to justify our living standards to yours.

It is illegal to steal from your neighbor’s pocket, but getting the government to do it for you is somehow justifiable? Hugo would be so proud! Mao, Alinsky and Marx are your mentors? Keep that crap in Canada and let us know how it works out for you.

I teach my kids that nothing last forever but that does not mean that you should take everything to make your life the best that there ever was. Take what you need and nothing more. Be happy with less.

Put these phony green charlatans under a microscope for your children. Show them where poverty starts without hard work and wealth is part of class status they will never achieve. Rob them of any chance to improve their lot in life. Hide from them that there is anything good in being weaned from the tit! The less you contribute, the less it has to return. So, by all means, don’t do anything more in life than the minimum will bring. Why not keep them illiterate while you are at it?

Solar and wind technology is the best bet that we have right now to take us past oil. I think it is a very wise decision to invest in it for future generations even if it changes our way of life.

Don’t get me wrong on alternate energy. Neat technology if and when it stands on its own without price manipulation. If you can identify the corruption between big oil and administrations of the past, yet ignore big green boondoggles farming money from every angle it pays, but fails to produce. It is NOT AN INVESTMENT. It is a placebo to appease the screamers and enrich more cronies they support. What they say and what they do is to be questioned, scrutinized and never taken for granted as a good thing at face value.

Don't bother bashing me again. You are to caught up in the current mindset of NA to have a constructive dialog about things of this nature.

Don't mind if I do Flash. Activists are easy to please with pretty pictures, graphs and charts. Propaganda sells BS. Pointing out flaws in their logic or question their ethics always sends them into a tirade. How egotistical to think only they are allowed to do the mocking or bashing. Instead they lay down the rules of the discussion. Next you'll limit free speech to squelch dissent. Your use of “Constructive dialog” is code speak for ..shut up and eat the stew I serve you!

DC

[martinw]

[QUOTE=ImanCarrot;645924]
I'm heading to Sweden QUOTE]

Dear ImanCarrot,

This is not a good idea. If you want to have a last "gargle" before meeting your Maker, you will find the price of a decent tipple in that country so ruinous that an even deeper depression will set in, and you may forget to have a "stiffener".

Far better to head for Switzerland. Being outside the EU, you can get a decent bottle of duty-free Scotch on the way, and will rest forever in the knowledge that you departed having denied Mr Darling of yet more revenue.

(BTW, we can argue elsewhere about the commonly accepted definition of billion).

Best wishes,

Martin

[ImanCarrot]

Dang, I can't get my head around billions.

I work in microns (a thousandth of a millimetre) and Angstroms (a tenth of a micron). Billions just do my head in, it's at the wrong end of the scale for me.

Light begins to diffract at the tolerances I work to.. as in light dun know if it's a wave or a particle. It gets confuseded.

Anyway.. to get back on track... would it be considered a viable wind resource if we were to capture the output of all major governmental agencies?

[Geof]

...... Billions just do my head in, it's at the wrong end of the scale for me....

Try hanging by your toes from the rafters to get an inverted perspective..

[ImanCarrot]

Geof, you have always intrigued me by your posts and I have learned many things from your freely given and helpfull words.

However....

I now have a picture of an impossible situation.. hanging upside down by one's toes?

Surely you would have to be a bat?

And in such a precipitous position would not the fear of falling on the gound be upermost in one's mind?

Upon that floor (apart from guanno) would there not be the remains of a multitude of previous precariously perched toe hangers who's decomposing detritus returned to ashes...

(Bat, Cricket, England, Autralia (upside down) hehe. Godamn! I'm gonna get arrested for iliteration lmao.

Please don't ban me ))

[Geof]

....However....

I now have a picture of an impossible situation.. hanging upside down by one's toes?

Surely you would have to be a bat?
....

Or batty.


I never claimed to be serious all the time.

[Deltic_Engine]

I did some consulting work for a Wind Turbine Company last year.
They were developing a 360KW Turbine which although huge,
is considered only a 'Smal~Medium' size Turbine by commercial standards.

An earlier post asked why the Wind Turbines are sometimes not Turning;

The most common reason is that there is TOO MUCH wind at the time.
Some Wind Turbines are programmed to actuate their brakes and
feather their blades when the wind velocity exceeds what most people
would consider only a rather modest breeze.

This is because many earlier large Wind Turbine Designs were being
produced without enough testing and they flew apart when operated
a their original design RPM. After a couple of disasters in the field
they were 'Detuned' in programming so that the manufacturers
would not have to scrap them and eat the cost.

Large Wind Turbines are not easy things to design. There is very little
long-term history to guide engineers towards making better decisions.
This is especialy true in the USA. Europe has alot more experience.

Unfortunately, short of licensing proven European designs, American
manufacturers (even the big ones like Clipper Wind Power) are still
working a bit in the dark because proven designs are either
unavailable for licensing or they are too old to be as efficient as
the Turbines need to be to compete with our dirt-cheap hydro power.

[beone]

IMANCAROT
In the Air Force we used to bat hang all the time. excellent example of proper manly bearing. however being at least two sheets to the wind was more or less a prerequisite!

[dynosor]

Everything is owned by someone.

This website is owned by someone who doesn't like SPAM.