[inertialabs]

I am looking into buying a Haas SL 20 and i am debating puller and feeder
I have roughly ten thousand 1" aluminum turned parts to make any insight
into this would be appreciated

[Geof]

It can be a wash but there are some differences:

A feeder can be faster than a puller but not by a great amount unless it can feed with the spindle running so you eliminate the time spent stopping and starting the spindle.

With a magazine feeder you do not have to spend time loading bars.

I have a question:

Why SL20 when the part is from 1" bar stock, why not SL10? Costs less and has a higher spindle speed.

[thum31]

I would like to add another difference. I am using a puller right now because I need to move another machine to get the feeder set up. With the puller I am limited to what fits inside the spindle, about 3 1/2 to 4 feet. Once the feeder is set up I can feed a 12 foot bar. That equals less handling and less scrap.

[inertialabs]

Ok that seems like good advise, my shop is geared twords prototyping and development, but this job would more than pay for half of the machine in one shot so I can't really say no.

I do have limited space and as much as I would love to have the bar feeder it sounds like I could get by with a puller for this time.

Do you have any thoughts on years I have heard that some of the older lathes have had turret problems ?

Thanks

[ashro]

I would say bar feed all the way.
i leave my machine running over night on simple jobs and without bar feed you couldnt do this.
Come in in the morning and its still machining

so simple answer to me

done this for last few years with no problems

[ashro]

I am looking into buying a Haas SL 20 and i am debating puller and feeder
I have roughly ten thousand 1" aluminum turned parts to make any insight
into this would be appreciated

Bar feed all the way.

this way you can run the machine all night with nobody there.
money for nothing

i do it all the time with no probs

this would soon pay for your bar feed and lots more

i decided to go with bar feed and never looked back

its a no brainer tbh
for me anyway

[roundman]

I have a barfeed on the 10. It is good to get it set and load up the bars and go. I do not use lights out since we have not had a long run job with smaller parts to do in some time. Plus we often do not have large runs on a monthly or by weekly basis just don't have them. We usually have a average of 12-14 parts per run. When I have more I use the barfeed or puller. The barfeeder (it could be just me) does not do well with smaller diameter material and even small material like 3/16 diameter. I use a barpuller on that. Plus a barpuller can take up space for a few jobs where I might just need that extra space for a tool though rarely. We have regretted not putting the bar feed on our 20 though on occasion. The barfeed does take up a lot of space though in a crowded shop.

[HelicopterJohn]

Has anyone tried one of these?

A friend of mine just purchased one of these for his new HAAS GT10 Lathe.

http://www.royalprod.com/product.cfm?catID=4&ID=26

It looks well made and is adjustable for different sized bars and combines 2 tools in one to save you one tool location on your turret.

John

[roundman]

It looks cool. I do tend to part off as close to the chuck or collet as possible and I think the puller would probably space me out a little. That is a smart concept and I could still use Iscar for partoffs.

[HelicopterJohn]

I haven't actually seen the tool in action. My friend has it working and as soon as he gets everything sorted out he will invite me down for a little demo.

I will let you know how the demo goes.

John

[Ecmdrw5]

haha funny story about leaving a bar feeder running over night. The first time we left the machine running over night we came back to find 3000 parts with no holes in them, lol. We ran the job all day long for 3 days on the same drill. I changed all the inserts and the drill 30 minutes before quitting time. Shut off the lights and left. By my cycle times and the number of correct parts that were made. The 3/8" drill broke about 4 minutes after I left so it ran for 16 hours making parts with no holes. Luckly we just set up a mill and drill them all out the next day, lol.

[Geof]

The 3/8" drill broke about 4 minutes after I left

I have wondered about Rube Goldberging something together as a broken tool detector to prevent this sort of thing, especially with drills and taps.

I have seen systems advertised that use laser beams or probes whcih are not cheap but I wondered about a system with a microswitch operated by a little feeler. At the toolchange before, or after, position the turret so that as the tool change occurs the drill nudges the feeler and closes the microswitch to reset something.

I haven't entirely figured out the something but maybe the M-FIN function could be used:

If the drill is intact the microswitch closes momentarily and this would operate a relay wired to self latch in the M-FIN signal circuit.

Immediately after the tool change give the M-FIN code and use the M-FIN relay to close another relay in series with the latching relay.

If the drill is intact both relays are closed so the M-FIN signal circuit is closed, the machine continues and turns off the M-FIN relay which opens the M-FIN signal relay and the machine continues running the cycle.

The latching relay has to be reset and this could be from another user M relay:

Wire this relay in a normal closed configuration into the latching circuit and immiediately after the M-FIN code have the other user M code to open this relay dropping the latch out, then cancel this user M to reset everything for the next toolchange.


This should allow you to detect several different drills or taps by having the turret move into an appropriate position for each one and would also be adaptable to parting tools.

Total part count is one microswitch, two small relays and a low voltage power supply.

[SBC Cycle]

Do you have any thoughts on years I have heard that some of the older lathes have had turret problems ?

Thanks

I have a 2008 SL-20. The turret is still a problem, mainly it's too small. Most of my OD turning tools are either above or below center. The ID tool holders use a cam system to put them in line, which is great considering the turret just isn't lined up properly to begin with. Only problem with that is that you have to take the holder off to adjust it. Then back on, sweep with an indicator, back off, adjust, back on, sweep, ad naseum. Lastly, the hex head jack bolts that came with the lathe for holding the OD tools only measured 0.733 across the flats. They tightened up OK, but after running the same job for 2 months and it was time for the tools to come out, every one of them rounded off on the corners and had to be cut out with an abrasive wheel.

I called Haas to complain and when we tried to tell them the bolts had a non-standard size (not metric or SAE), the tech told us they were "within spec" and actually suggested we were using an open end wrench and should have been using a box end :withstupi Of course if you know the bolts I'm talking about, it would be most interesting trying to use a box end wrench to tighten them up.

I finally figured out what was wrong with the turret on the machine. I was flipping through a magazine one day and saw an ad with a Korean lathe, WITH THE EXACT SAME TURRET. I think Haas just sourced this out and didn't put a lot of thought in it. The rest of the machine is great, I love it. But I would dump it in a heartbeat for a similar priced machine with a real turret.