[art2009]

I've been selected to research a machine to purchase that will etch metal tags. These tags are of various metals. Mostly stainless steel, then brass then aluminum. I'm looking for speed and price as well as work area. Most YAGs I've seen have a small work area. Can anyone recommend a machine manufacturer I should be looking at? price would be first in priorities. Thanks for any help

[zax15uk]

If you have a limited budget, Why not look at a rotary engraving system?

Nd:YAG or a fiber laser would be suitable, also you mention the ones you've seen have a small work area - how big are the tags you want to mark?

Zax.

[art2009]

Well we really want the black mark typical of laser marking. We like being able to offer barcoding and the ability to engrave customer logos also. We have several rotary machines and the wear and tear on the spindle when cutting into stainless steel is another downside. Plus, the mark isn't as attractive in my opinion.

Typical tags for us are 2" diameter or square. I'd like to get 25 tags out in one run, but would be willing to go smaller I guess.

I guess I should have been more specific in my information request. I realize what type of laser we need, I'm looking for solid machines at reasonable prices.

[MonoNeuron]

Hi Art,
Contact Protomate as he deals with YAG lasers everyday and would be able to steer you on the right path but I think he only deals with the heads themselves. I may be wrong but he might be able to help.
Rich

[protomate]

Hello Art,
I have seen add on systems with on board galvos that can work in that size range. As I do not have much experience with galvo system's I am not sure of the manufacturer. We used to use them to serialize automotive condensers made of aluminum with them. I am not sure what you have for a budget. At what rate do you need to produce these tags? Have you considered out sourcing them? What kind of budget do you have? If your on a budget nothing beats linear x-y systems unless you need extremely fast cycle times. Software is cheap, motion system is cheap, and you will end up with more capabilities. Could you please provide more detail on the scope of your project maybe? Are you getting the tags in as sheared blanks, or do you cut them? Is a circle the ideal profile for your needs? Are you producing these as a business, or for your own needs?

[art2009]

Thanks guys, I'm thinking my budget is around 30K. If I could find a solid used system that was less expensive, I'd consider that also.

I'm currently employed by a large manufacturer of engraved signs and metal tags. They aren't interested in adding a piece of equipment that will mark there metal tags nicely and instead they do it the old fashioned way. They stamp them and then backfill with black paint. It looks horrible. I was hoping that if I could get a reasonably priced machine I could do this work for them as a vendor of sorts.

I agree about the pricing on X-Y systems. The work area is immense by what I've seen in a galvo YAG system. We have a few Universal CO2 lasers we use and they are for the most part, built rock solid and work great. I use the CO2s for a variety of stuff, including marking anodized aluminum tags. I do these setup in fixtures of 50-100.

Someone suggested the Epilog FiberMark. Anyone have any experience with that? I've emailed them and I want to send them our stainless steel tags to mark but I haven't received a reply yet.

[Litografa]

Look on GCC S290 - reliable, big table, fit your budget.

[art2009]

Thanks! that's the size table I'm looking for..I'll contact them and see if they can run some test pieces.

[protomate]

May I ask what format the files are that you intend to etch?

[art2009]

At the moment I use Adobe Illustrator and EngraveLab Laser to drive the lasers. Adobe can import/export whatever I need and Engravelab is pretty good for importing/exporting to Illustrator format.

[protomate]

Well, if you are spending or financing against your own pocket, you can save 10's of thousands of dollars setting up your own system. Suppose you have a few thousand tied up in a running yag laser, between $1000-4000 on an xy table system. Then you need some method to get the beam from the laser to the part. If you opted to have a system that employed a moving table, you can mount the laser to the z axis. If you want a gantry system, you can use a fiber optic cable to carry the beam. Both options require a lens at the end to focus the beam down just like the "Gucci" of the shelf markers have.

Here is the trade off as I understand it: Marker vs. XY
$30k off the shelf laser marking system
Advantages:
A) Easy set-up
B) Compact size
C) Low power requirements (I think you can power some of them on 110v)
D) Short cycle time
Disadvantages:
C) High initial capital investment
D) Most replacement parts are proprietary to the manufacturer(if it breaks down, bend over, or scrap your unit that just cost you a small fortune)
E) Individual parts must be loaded in front of the system one by one because of the small work package. labor cost's are higher because the unit must be manned during operation. You could add a pick and place, but that is another subsystem to fail, and another control routine to worry about
F) Most laser companies discontinue support after a few years, and parts dry up, rendering them useless.
G) The depreciation is worse then buying a new car

Gantry or Milling machine style XY
Advantages:
H) Very low capital investment start up cost in comparison
I) Laser acts as an external entity to the XY system. If it blows up, you can roll up a spare, and be back online for 10's of thousands less(even if you had 2 units)
J) Only the control components on board the laser are proprietary. That is if you opt to use the turn key laser systems. If you select the proper unit's, the parts are dirt cheap
K) The cost per watt is substantially less. I have never dealt in my own collection with anything less than 90w of YAG output. Of course you can use it at 1w. The benefit to over sizing is that the consumable the flashlamps life exponentially lengthens the lower you run the power.
Example:100w max power output laser
Operated at 100w all the time: Flashlamp may last 700-1000hrs
Same laser at 20w all the time: Flaslamp life in the 10's of thousands of hours
(worst case you buy the $29.95 lamps on Ebay new when they are listed for your system)
H) Your working package can be as large as you decide. I would propose to make gang tooling(a plate of material with slide fit tolerance to put the tags in) so you can load all 25 pcs at once. Then hit go, and go drink beer! Then unload at your leisure.
G) motion components are generic
H) Control software is not proprietary. I would propose to use step and direction style servo drives. I buy yaskawa myself. I currently have over 50 motors for my projects. Highest reliability of any servo's system's made. Readily available on Ebay. Since the big 3 automakers only use allen bradley , the price is not artificially inflated due to the smaller equipment suppliers that have to use them and often buy them off Ebay. Yaskawa's support is awsome (even if you got them 2nd hand). All documentation is readily available on there website, unlike most of the servo clowns. if the system is older than a few years, they want nothing to do with it.
L) Even with the smallest unit's that make paractical sense, you can cut material if you choose. That open's up a whole other potential for making money. The precision is in the xy, no real worries about the system rigidity to acheive accuracy to some degree. You main precision enemy is only vibration, but no opposing tool forces.
Disadvantages:
M) Larger system footprint
N) More thought has to go into optimizing feed rates, and inertia matching
O) longer time to market initially
P) More costly/time consuming to integrate safety guarding since the work package is larger potentially
Q) Requires more design time (time=money)

I am sure I missed a few pro's and con's. Just my experience. I hope this helps

[art2009]

Amazing..thanks protomate that give me alot to consider!

[protomate]

I have been studying, and working with lasers for a while both for my personal enterprises and for my jobs I have held. I am glad I could help! I have designed a lot of automated manufacturing system for large corperate clowns. i am free now. I just do laser jobs for myself, small companies, guys like you, and hobbyist. Very, very fun work. I am very glad I could help, or at least be the devils advocate.LOL!

[wddanie]

I like this approach and plan to use the milling machine approach to build a laser cutter to cut .005 in. thick stainless steel foil. Can you suggest a laser to use? I can only afford about 3k$ for the laser. I did see a 25w fiber laser on ebay. Would that be a good choice?

Thanks,

Doug

[kelvinguo]

Our semiconductor side laser marking machine can mark stainless and other metal material very well. There are 50W and 75W of laser power with Length of laser wave:1064nm , Marking scope: 100x100mm - 300x300mm, Min line width: 0.015mm, min character: 0.15mm, Marker line speed: ≤ 7000mm/s, Mark deepness: ≤0.4mm, Repeat precision: ±0.001mm, Power supply: AC220V 50Hz/, Operating temperature: 10-35°c, moisture: 5-75°c, Cooling style: closed loop water cooling, Demension: 1300mm*850mm*1160mm . If you're looking for purchase ,please feel free to contact me directly at [email protected]

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