[Jeff Davis]

Been a long time lurker and I have spent the last few days reading as
many posts on the X3 conversion as I could find.

The controls and power supply is the only item I really have questions about.

http://www.kelinginc.net/Three34XCNCPackage.html offers
this package, but I have not seen anyone using this for their conversion.
Is this setup considered a little wimpy?

For the rest of the build will use the CNC Fusion Deluxe Kit, with the Helical
couplers and a gas strut. Plus all the other numerouse items I have
discovered here.



I did a homebrew X1 conversion about 5 years ago that came out pretty
well, its still working, but I am wanting to upgrade to something that
can handle a little more beef.

Thanks in advance for any advice on this build.

Jeff Davis

[SlowRiderr]

Yah good choice - except if you go to the site and buy everything separate instead of buying the "kit" you will save a few bucks.

[Deviant]

I have the x3 with the cncfusion deluxe kit, I went with servos and 320s.

It was a little bit of a learning experience. I think I made it more difficult than required.

If I did it over again, I think I would look at the gecko540. It will cut down on alot of the wiring/clutter.

One of these days, I'll actually make something more than a big pile of glitter.


*mumbles*

[southernexplore]

How does your machine run with the servos, and what servos did you use?

Thanks,
Tommy

[Jeff Davis]

The whole electronics motor package for this build is driving me nuts.

Been thinking about the 540, but i can't get any steppers in the nema 34 size
with low enough inductance.

The 203V's seem popular and well made, but three of those do not come cheap.

I have seen some full size CNC mills on Ebay for close to the price of what
this will cost me when I am done. Granted I have no clue how to move a
10,000lb machine 400 miles, and where to put it if I did.

Is there a Nema 34 stepper that will work with the Gecko 540? An still have
enough juice to run the Z axis?

Thanks for the input,

Jeff

[Deviant]

I believe that my servos are nema 23, 225-250oz, 36v 3600 rpm...

Or close to that.

I haven't seen any problems with it moving the mill. In fact, I would say that it moves the table too fast.

I expect that I will not be able to cut at it's fastest speeds.

I had cncfusion modify my kit to use nema23's.

I believe there is a post around here.... Where Al or Hoss posted nema 23/34 motors that would work happily with the 540.

In hindsight, I wish I hadn't gotten as hung up in the details of trying to build the super machine.

I still spend more time fussing with the machine that I would like. One of these days, I'm going to break down and buy a Haas or something.

Playing with these machine is definably an exercise in patience and frustration.

*grins*

[SCzEngrgGroup]

The whole electronics motor package for this build is driving me nuts.

Been thinking about the 540, but i can't get any steppers in the nema 34 size
with low enough inductance.

The 203V's seem popular and well made, but three of those do not come cheap.

I have seen some full size CNC mills on Ebay for close to the price of what
this will cost me when I am done. Granted I have no clue how to move a
10,000lb machine 400 miles, and where to put it if I did.

Is there a Nema 34 stepper that will work with the Gecko 540? An still have
enough juice to run the Z axis?

Thanks for the input,

Jeff

Jeff,

What makes you think you *need* a NEMA34? Plenty of people have done X3s with NEMA23's on the Z axis. My X2 is using a 270 oz-in NEMA23 with no springs, counterweights or any other assistance, and it works fine at 50 IPM. When I put in the 495 oz-in motor I have on the shelf, it should easily do 100 IPM, which is all you can really use on these small machines.

Regards,
Ray L.

[Jeff Davis]

Life got in the way, but the X3 will be here tomorrow and the CNC Fusion Deluxe Kit should be here next week.

I am still stuck on the Stepper and Driver selection but I am thinking about the following.

3- Gecko 203v
2- 425 oz stepper from Keiling
1- 640 oz stepper from Keiling
1- 72 volt PSU from Keiling

The breakout board is still unknown....

If i did the math right on the above steppers the 72v PSU should be about on the money.

I am quickly approaching my budget limit for the project, is there a less expensive way to do this part of the build that I wont regret in a week?

Thanks again,

Jeff Davis

[Crevice Reamer]

Hi Jeff. Welcome to the Zone!

Here are my recommendations for the X3:


$098 2 KL23H284-35-4B 387 oz motors for X and Y.
$089 1 KL34H280-55-4A 637 oz motor for Z.
$417 3 Gecko G203V unkillable drives.
$189 KL- 6515 65v 15A PSU.
$183 1 PMDX-132 Combo breakout board.
-------
$976

http://kelinginc.net/

http://www.pmdx.com/

Now, it's only experimental so far, and the few people trying it have not reported back yet, but there MAY be a less expensive way to go:

$289 G540 This IS a breakout board also.
$098 Keling KL23H2100-35-4B 381 oz motors for X and Y
$099 Keling KL34H295-43-8A 906 oz N34 motor for Z (Detunes to 520 oz W/G540. Changing Z pulley to 1.2:1 = 640 Oz)
$060 Keling KL-350-48 48V/7.3A PSU. (This will handle 3 motors. 4th axis needs more amps.)
---------
$546

You would also need to substitute THIS pulley for the stock CNCFusion motor pulley:

https://sdp-si.com/eStore/PartDetail...52&GroupID=217

CR.

[SCzEngrgGroup]

Life got in the way, but the X3 will be here tomorrow and the CNC Fusion Deluxe Kit should be here next week.

I am still stuck on the Stepper and Driver selection but I am thinking about the following.

3- Gecko 203v
2- 425 oz stepper from Keiling
1- 640 oz stepper from Keiling
1- 72 volt PSU from Keiling

The breakout board is still unknown....

If i did the math right on the above steppers the 72v PSU should be about on the money.

I am quickly approaching my budget limit for the project, is there a less expensive way to do this part of the build that I wont regret in a week?

Thanks again,

Jeff Davis

The Homann Designs breakout boards (www.homanndesigns.com) are very nicely made, and very cheap. Not as full-featured as some of the more expensive ones, but they have what you really need, and no more, and work flawlessly. I used two in my latest build, and not so much as a hiccup.

Regards,
Ray L.

[Jeff Davis]

Sweet, Mill arrived today all in one piece!

Started the red goop removal, was not to bad. I think that the X1 I purchased years ago was worse.

I performed the motor break-in, but the drive still seems a bit loud/noisy. Hard to say though, I don't have a reference.

Anyways, now for the Fusion unit to show up.

I like the idea of the 540 unit, well I like the $400 cheaper price, before I bite off on the electronics I would for sure like to hear back from anyone who has tried that option.

Again, thanks for all the help!

Jeff

[Jeff Davis]

I have been following the 540 X3 post and trying to weigh out my projected
needs vs cost. The electronics package will cost me more then my entire
X1 conversion including the mill, let alone the cost of the mill and the Fusion
kit

From all that I have been able to read now the kl23h2100-35-4B has the
speed and power I need for the X and Y. The Z is always the bugger. I
think the following will hit the ticket for my paticular needs and provide it
with little compromise to performance. The nema 23 and 34 both have a
low inductance which if I am thinking correctly should keep the speed of my
rapids decent and still provide plenty of torque. In this config I get the full
torque of the 906 oz stepper which might negate the need of adding a
counter weight assembly and since it isnt de-tuned I will not need to
purchase a different pully for the Fusion kit.

Like all things there is a compromise but I think for my needs this might do it.

Please give your opinions!



$105 1 KL34h295-43-8A Stepper
$98 2 kl23h2100-35-4B Stepper
$129 1 G203V Gecko Drive
$138 2 G251 Gecko Drive
$35 1 MB-02-V5 Bidirectional Breakout Board
$149 1 KL- 4813 PSU


$654


Jeff

[Crevice Reamer]

The 1 KL34h295-43-8A costs $99 not $105.
If you must have a more expensive PSU, then the KL-5010 would be a better choice.

Just MHO, but I think you are being pennywise and pound foolish.

You are giving up a lot of convenience and nice features and causing yourself a lot of hassle-work to save a few dollars and gain some unneeded Z torque.

You will still need to heat sink those drives, add a 5V power supply, and buy a speed controller. Not to mention all of the wiring to hook it all up.

The G203V is unkillable after you heat sink it, and the G540 also, but the G251s are not. Chances are good that you will be spending money to replace them in the future.

CR.

[Jeff Davis]

Information I needed, thanks!

I thought the 251 was just a subset of the 540 in single channel form. And you are correct the stepper is $99, I read the price of the dual shaft version. The wiring and the 5 volt supply would not be a problem, my background is in electronics.

My only concern with the Z axis was what the estimated ipm would be on the Z with a de-tuned 906 oz.

I totally agree with you on the convenience of the 540. That would be almost a plug and play solution.

I would still love to hear some feedback on the fellas that tried the 540 with the detuned 906 oz.

The X1 conversion I did years ago suffers from steppers that have a high inductance and my rapids wont exceed 9 ipm. I am trying to avoid these kind of situations but I also don't want to throw money away for something that I will receive no benefit from.

Your experimental selection of parts still has the most appeal, low price, low inductance of the steppers, ease of assembly. I have a bit of time before the Fusion kit gets here so mabey somebody who has tried it will chime in, on paper it all looks good but nothing beats real world trials.

Again, thanks for the input!

Jeff

[SCzEngrgGroup]

Information I needed, thanks!

I thought the 251 was just a subset of the 540 in single channel form. And you are correct the stepper is $99, I read the price of the dual shaft version. The wiring and the 5 volt supply would not be a problem, my background is in electronics.

My only concern with the Z axis was what the estimated ipm would be on the Z with a de-tuned 906 oz.

I totally agree with you on the convenience of the 540. That would be almost a plug and play solution.

I would still love to hear some feedback on the fellas that tried the 540 with the detuned 906 oz.

The X1 conversion I did years ago suffers from steppers that have a high inductance and my rapids wont exceed 9 ipm. I am trying to avoid these kind of situations but I also don't want to throw money away for something that I will receive no benefit from.

Your experimental selection of parts still has the most appeal, low price, low inductance of the steppers, ease of assembly. I have a bit of time before the Fusion kit gets here so mabey somebody who has tried it will chime in, on paper it all looks good but nothing beats real world trials.

Again, thanks for the input!

Jeff

"and my rapids wont exceed 9 ipm." - I'm not sure you can legally refer to 9 IPM as a "rapid".... :-)

Regards,
Ray L.

[Jeff Davis]

Ray, lol yeah

It was cnc on a serious budget. Ebayed steppers that had to be wired series to meet the controllers current limits and torque at speed didnt exist. This while also driving stock lead screws. Anyways it did work pretty well and allowed me to do alot of little projects.

Jeff

[Jeff Davis]

Adding my name to the Guinea Pig list for the 540 trial. Electronics and steppers have been ordered as well as the pulley for the Z. If things don't work out I always wanted to build a CNC router

Thanks CR. for the advice!

$289 G540 This IS a breakout board also.
$098 Keling KL23H2100-35-4B 381 oz motors for X and Y
$099 Keling KL34H295-43-8A 906 oz N34 motor for Z (Detunes to 520 oz W/G540. Changing Z pulley to 1.2:1 = 640 Oz)
$060 Keling KL-350-48 48V/7.3A PSU. (This will handle 3 motors. 4th axis needs more amps.)
---------
$546

Will give an update soon as I get things running.

Thanks all,

Jeff

[Crevice Reamer]

Congrats on your decision Jeff! Welcome to a group of (I think) four pioneers. FWIW, If I had my SX3 conversion to do over again, (None of this was available then) I would try this also. What rapid speed are you hoping to get from the Z?

You may also need some other stuff:

You can use THIS wire for motor cables and home/limit switches. Ground the drain wire ONLY at the driver end. (Pins 3,4,5 for motors, PSU Ground for homes/limits)

http://cgi.ebay.com/Stepper-Motor-Wi...item45ecb75966

It also comes in 100 ft roll.

BELDEN 8723-100 STEPPER MOTOR CABLE WIRE

$32 http://www.fullcompass.com/product/305455.html 3 WK SHP

$33? http://www.jameco.com/Jameco/catalogs/c273/P101.pdf

$38 http://www.mcmelectronics.com/produc...100-/36F1033WA

$39 http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/sto...oductId=734180

$40 http://www.markertek.com/Product.asp...&utm_campaign=

$44 http://www.alliedelec.com/Search/Pro...SC=8723+060100

EUROPE http://www.cable-world.co.uk/online.htm


You won't need any db9 motor connectors with the G540, as they come WITH it. The G540 also has circuitry for simple spindle speed control and outputs for dc relays to turn coolant pump (Or router motor) on or off.

These inexpensive relays are very good :

https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.a...tname=electric

You will need one of THESE 1/4 Watt 3.48K resistors for each 381 or 387:

3.48KXBK-ND

Or one of THESE 1/4 W 2.8K resistors for each 270:

2.80KXBK-ND

They only come in a pack of five, so about $1 for 10. With shipping it's about $3.50

http://digikey.com/

Or, in Canada:

http://digikey.ca/

You will also need an estop switch, Home/limit switches, Helical couplings and a 6 foot "straight thru parallel port cable. These are all available from Keling:

http://kelinginc.net/CNCPackage.html

The G540 is so small that many are mounting theirs INSIDE the computer case.

Camtronics has a case MADE for the G540:

http://s120220635.onlinehome.us/stepper-components.asp

CR.

[Jeff Davis]

CR,

Would it be crazy to dream about 100 ipm rapids on the Z? Anything above 20 ipm and I would probably be happy, but it is nice to dream.

Jeff

[Crevice Reamer]

100 IPM sounds feasible to me, especially if you polish up the ways while you have the mill apart. Did I give you this teardown guide?

http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/projec...on%20Guide.pdf

CR.