[Helikiwi]

I'm about to purchase a CNC-Step S720 Router and have been told that a PC is recommended while running the PCNC Software it comes with providing that I upgrade it to the professional edition. I have a laptop that I can dedicate to this machine although it does not have a printer port I know you can get a USB to LPT conversion cable.
The Question is, What is the difference between the capabilities of a Laptop vs those of a PC? My Laptop has 1gig of Ram 100gig of hard drive space and a 256mb video card, it will only have the bare essentials to operate this machine and will not be used on the internet. I've built my own gaming PCs over the years and apart from the (maybe) Power supply required I cant see too many other reasons a laptop couldn't be used.
Can anybody with experience in this department share their thoughts on this?

Cheers

[SCzEngrgGroup]

I'm about to purchase a CNC-Step S720 Router and have been told that a PC is recommended while running the PCNC Software it comes with providing that I upgrade it to the professional edition. I have a laptop that I can dedicate to this machine although it does not have a printer port I know you can get a USB to LPT conversion cable.
The Question is, What is the difference between the capabilities of a Laptop vs those of a PC? My Laptop has 1gig of Ram 100gig of hard drive space and a 256mb video card, it will only have the bare essentials to operate this machine and will not be used on the internet. I've built my own gaming PCs over the years and apart from the (maybe) Power supply required I cant see too many other reasons a laptop couldn't be used.
Can anybody with experience in this department share their thoughts on this?

Cheers

A USB-to-parallel adaptor is completely unusable for CNC. It is impossible to generate the precise signal timing required. You must have a real parallel port, A PCMCIA parallel port should work OK. The next problem is many laptops share the main memory with the graphics controller, which can also cause problems that lead to unreliable operation. Power management also causes problems, though this can *usually* be disabled in software.

If you run Mach3, you can get a SmoothStepper, which is a hardware motion generator that connects to the PC via USB, and works very well. But, sounds like you machine uses dedicated software which would not know how to communicate with a SmoothStepper.

Your best bet is to listen to the machine manufacturers recommendation. To do otherwise is asking for trouble.

Regards,
Ray L.

[Dougal]

The consensus is that USB-LPT ports aren't real-time enough for mill operation. You can apparently get PCMCIA parrallel ports which will work.

However I'd buy an older laptop with a parrallel port or find/build a PC. I use a 4 year old Dell 600m (aka d600) laptop to run my mill and it has no problems. It saves considerable workshop space over a dedicated screen, keyboard and tower.

[Helikiwi]

Thanks guys, After doing a forum search I've learnt a lot about the disadvantages of laptops, Its a pity really because I have a spare one right here. I will build a basic small PC box and try to find a small screen that doesnt take up tons of room, I was hoping to have a small streamlined operation in the garage.

Thanks again

[Dougal]

Thanks guys, After doing a forum search I've learnt a lot about the disadvantages of laptops,

It's not soo much the laptops as the lack of ports on most laptops. A laptop with a parallel port can work fine. There's a lot of misinformation out there.

[LeeWay]

I use an IBM Thinkpad. It's an older one. Once I finally got all the power saving features disabled in Windows, IBM software and the bios, it is perfect. Many levels of screens that need to be accessed to get it all done. You think it's done and you are in the middle of a cnc cycle and wham, computer locks up. If lucky, the machine stops. If not, you get and immediate wild crash on all axes. If you want to know how fast your motors will really go, enjoy just one of those kind of crashes. Mine works so well that I have an even older Thinkpad I will try on my newest machine. Should do okay. Both have PP's onboard.

I had a Toshiba Satelite that wasn't very old. It had a PP, but it would simply not generate a stable timing line in Mach 3. Far too erratic. That was after all the disabling done. The CPU simply would not play nice.

[Helikiwi]

A laptop would be great, I will also look into that. Do you guys operate XP or something else? I have found XP to be the most stable Windows system out there......Vista didnt even get a look in.

[Dougal]

A laptop would be great, I will also look into that. Do you guys operate XP or something else? I have found XP to be the most stable Windows system out there......Vista didnt even get a look in.

Yes using XP on all computers, even ones bought in the last 6 months.
Vista just annoys me. Dunno if W7 will be better but it'll be a while before I'm forced into that.

[LeeWay]

By all means, XP when possible. I have one machine running Vista. It does okay, but is truly a pain. Copy and paste takes several screens to complete. If you accidentally hit the right mouse button, then the left, it hangs up in Mach 3 with a splash screen want you to switch to another program while this one is busy. What the..! Crap! Thats definitely adding insult to injury. You must wait awhile while it figures out that you just made a mistake and it's not really under attack. Then when you are white knuckled, it will let you play with Mach again. And don't ever hit both mouse buttons simultaneously. It may just self destruct.

[pminmo]

If you want to use a laptop, stay away from newer ones. As CPU's advanced, Intel and AMD started doing things to save power that modified cpu cycle times. That affected MACH3's ability to do timing smoothly. Look for a laptop that has had mach3 implemented succesfully.

[pete from TN]

funny you mention that, I have a thinkpad that I have had for some time. It has been literally the best computer I have owned and I would love to make it work for the cnc machine. Care to give some detail about what you did to use it? I recently bought a semipowerful desktop with flatscreen to run the machine but I would rather have that one inside if I could...peace

[Jeff-Birt]

Some laptops will work, some won't. It is that simple. That is why folks will recommend against them. As has been mentioned the power saving features of a laptop cause all sorts of problems with the precise timing needed by CNC control programs like Mach 3. In the past I have gotten a laptop to work OK by shutting off all the APCI stuff I could find, running a special program that lets you keep the processor from throttling back, and doing some of the optimization steps for Mach 3.

Some folks will try to use an old 400-500 mHz desktop/laptop because they have it laying around. Don't be tempted to do so it will just cause you nothing but grief.

If you want to use a laptop then my recommendation is to make sure that it is a 1 mHz or faster processor with at least 512 mB or RAM. Do a fresh install of XP (Vista works just as well on newer machines) and go through the Mach optimization steps. I also like to recommend the SmoothStepper: http://soigeneris.com/Warp9.aspx. Connects by USB and takes a large load off the PC's processor (and it give 2+ parallel ports worth of I/O.)

[spiked3]

Some laptops will work, some won't. It is that simple. ...

Some folks will try to use an old 400-500 mHz desktop/laptop because they have it laying around. Don't be tempted to do so it will just cause you nothing but grief.
....

I have an old 400 desktop, emachine of all things, laying around and decided to use it for my new X3. It works fine. I do all my CAD-CAM on another computer and Mach3 on the 400 loads the gcode off the network. I have never had any problems with that aspect of it, and it will run my servos way faster than I can control or feel safe with. I think what you said about laptops applies equally to old machines. If you are comfortable with tweaking a PC, you can probably get one to work. BTW, I run Windows 2000 on it, not XP - that takes a huge load off processor and memory requirements, and mach3 seems fine on Windows 2000.

That said, I am thinking of trying to put together a new atom for the mill. While what I have runs mach3 fine, it is a little slow to boot/load etc. It looks like I can put together a mach3 specific atom for $300ish which is as cheap and faster than most used things I have seen that would work.

[Helikiwi]

My Laptop is 1.8gig with 1 gig of ram and a seperate video card. I did plan to do a reinstall and dedicate it to this machine. Unfortunately this controller seems to be designed for PCNC which comes installed on it - Where everybody seems to run Mach 3 and have all the cures for laptops.
I've looked at adapter cards that convert Express cards into LPT ports and one company claimed theirs was good for controllers and servo motors.
What sort of transfer rates are we looking at to run most controllers and steppers at a satisfactory rate?

[SCzEngrgGroup]

Some laptops will work, some won't. It is that simple. That is why folks will recommend against them. As has been mentioned the power saving features of a laptop cause all sorts of problems with the precise timing needed by CNC control programs like Mach 3. In the past I have gotten a laptop to work OK by shutting off all the APCI stuff I could find, running a special program that lets you keep the processor from throttling back, and doing some of the optimization steps for Mach 3.

Some folks will try to use an old 400-500 mHz desktop/laptop because they have it laying around. Don't be tempted to do so it will just cause you nothing but grief.

If you want to use a laptop then my recommendation is to make sure that it is a 1 mHz or faster processor with at least 512 mB or RAM. Do a fresh install of XP (Vista works just as well on newer machines) and go through the Mach optimization steps. I also like to recommend the SmoothStepper: http://soigeneris.com/Warp9.aspx. Connects by USB and takes a large load off the PC's processor (and it give 2+ parallel ports worth of I/O.)

A 500MHz PC *can* work just fine. It depends on the machine you're trying to run with it. I ran my X2 for several years, and my knee mill for almost a year on a 540MHz PC with 512M of RAM. Of course, *every* time I had a problem, everyone would blame the PC. Funny thing is, not ONE SINGLE problem was EVER pinned on the PC. Every single problem I had turned out to be a legitimate bug in either Mach3 or the SS plug-in, and all have since been fixed. That old PC is still working fine.

Regards,
Ray L.

[spiked3]

I went through 3 attempts to get my newer laptop working for the mill before I dug out the old 400. Express to parallel converts do the same thing as usb to parallel cables and would not work, at least that was my experience - so don't bother trying unless someone tells you they have tried X and it worked.
The 400 will only run the kernel at the slowest speed, so I left my servo encoders at 200 and the rapids were too fast for comfort. Sounds like the smooth stepper might be your best choice short of a different computer.

[Dougal]

running a special program that lets you keep the processor from throttling back

This was the crux for me.
I followed Pminmo's instructions, installing the Rightmark CPU utility changed it from laggy to fast and stable on the mach3 driver test.
The laptop has a 1.4ghz centrino processor and 1mb of ram.

[LeeWay]

funny you mention that, I have a thinkpad that I have had for some time. It has been literally the best computer I have owned and I would love to make it work for the cnc machine. Care to give some detail about what you did to use it? I recently bought a semipowerful desktop with flatscreen to run the machine but I would rather have that one inside if I could...peace

Well....I started with a laptop loaded with the full ride software from IBM for XP pro. Then I killed everything that wasn't a cnc controller.

I got rid of the bulkware to start with all software that I wasn't going to use. Then I went into the access IBM software and killed all the power settings and display savers, battery alarms etc. Disabled the touch pad and the little red button. I use a logitech trackball. I find they are much easier and less touchy to use and easy to clean.
You can save all that by loading a clean install of XP.
I then went in and Optimized it according to the sheet on the Mach site. Then I went into the admin services and started disabling things I didn't need. Set it up to run as an always on desktop.
Then I went through the Bio's.
Done. Right. Nope! Missed something. Went back through it all again and about 4 screens deep in the IBM stuff, there was an overide button that I neglected to click. Once that was done, I get very smooth driver tests and I run my mill with it a 45 htz.

The easy way though is a clean install, but I didn't have an XP pro disk. It would not let me over right it with XP home disk using the number on the label of the laptop. Imagine that.

[pete from TN]

Had a little episode tonight, went out to crank up the cnc mill and turned on the computer, the screen comes on and it is all RED!! everything!! I restarted the computer and again RED!! Then I start to look at the lcd controls and nothing makes the red go away. Then I start to look at the video card on the computer and cannot find anything. I spend like an hour trying to troubleshoot the damn thing and start to get frustrated and grab the lcd monitor to take it in the house to hook up to the other computer to see if it is the computer or the monitor and the screen goes to a no signal setting. Then I realize that when I got the new computer and ran out into the shop to try it on the cnc mill I just pushed the connection into the lcd and never screwed down the little tightening screws so over time it backed out!! I guess some of the pins were barely touching or something and that is why it only showed a red display...weird huh... Anyways glad it is not a NEW monitor I gotta cough up and everything is working nice and quiet now...

I may try that IBM thinkpad on the machine but I gotta look at the settings and all to see if I can figure out how to turn all the crap off... thanks for the tips tho...peace

[Helikiwi]

It seems that the more research I do into the computer thing, the more I am convinced that I should shelve this entire High Z idea and maybe look at a kitset type machine where I can choose the controller software while staying within budget.
I originally had a budget of $3000-$3500 Au and was prepared to write that off as a hobby expense if things didnt develop further down the track, but the High Z (as nice as it is) is creeping up and starting to blow through $6500
Can you guys recommend any kits out there that would get me going within that sort of budget? I would build from a plan but dont have much wood or metal working gear to complete such a task, so a kit is the next best thing.
It sounds like the Mach 3 software does the job for the controller and It will go well with my Alibre cad package that I am enjoying using now.
Any thoughts appreciated