[ez3022]

I'm considering purchasing a PCNC for small job shop use. I'm new to the CNC world and am considering attending the Tormach PCNC workshops as a way to bootstrap my knowledge of both CNC technology and the PCNC machine and tooling. I was wondering if any one who has attended one of these workshops had some feedback they'd like to share as it is a non-trivial cost to purchase the class and deal with the travel time and expenses.

If you've got feedback or an opinion on either the class or the PCNC I'd like to hear it.

Thanks,

Mark

[John Sasinowski]

Hi Mark.

I attended the most recent Tormach workshop. I found it incredibly useful.

First, a little background on myself to help place my comments into context. I have done some woodworking and reading about metalworking, but I've never turned or milled metal before. I'm a software engineer/architect who has worked in 3D graphics, so the first 'C' in "CNC Mill" is not an issue - all the other letters were new, so to speak :-)

In the workshop, you spend nearly all the time in a work room that has three Tormach mills. Our class was supposed to have 7 students, but one didn't show. Typically, two of the mills were in use by students and the third was either used by us as well or was set up to demonstrate various things - more on this in a moment.

Every student runs the mill for all the steps needed to machine their parts. If you saw the Stirling engine on the Tormach website, we made the top & bottom plates, the flywheel, and a somewhat complex part that sits on the top plate, anchors the flywheel support tower, and through which the piston and another rod pass (my apologies if my description is imprecise). While making these parts, we used step & custom soft jaws in a vice, anchored parts to sacrifical backing plates with screws & washers, and used other holding clamps to fix the workpieces. There were a number of alignment tasks that to be done, either for every part or for the first of a short 'run' of parts - measuring & entering tool heights, finding centers in several ways (with the point of a tool, with a rotating edge finder), finding the top of parts to establish a Z reference, aligning the vice with the mill table, finding the center of a hole using a dial indicator, establishing two different coordinate systems to work with one program at two different work-holding stations - I may have forgotten one or two along the way. By the time the class was over, I think everyone had a chance to perform each task, and those who have never done them before are encouraged or volunteered to go first.

Tool wise, we used a number of different tools in Tormach tool holders - end mills of various diameters and styles, drills, a center/chamfer drill, a face mill with insert tooling, a reamer, a tension/compression tapping head. The piece with the long description above used 13 different tools, the others fewer.

During the class sessions, there was always one seasoned machinist there to help, advise, and answer questions. We were encouraged to ask any and all questions, be they pertinent to the project or not. We were often shown several techniques to accomplish the same task.

We were also encouraged to ask to see demonstrations of any equipment that wasn't part of the class. Thinking back, we saw some work done on the Duality lathe, some other insert tooling at work, the measuring probe, some of the wizards in the machine controller, examples of how one works in SprutCAM, that sort of thing.

I'd characterize the tone of the workshop as teaching you the practical aspects of making competent parts.

At the start of the workshop, it was made clear that some mistakes would happen, which was good - it helped us to see how to handle issues that might arise in the real world without having to contrive fake problems. For example, an order that was supposed to have contained center cutting end mills apparently had non-center cutting end mills - the attendant noise from one plowing into aluminum showed us all that something was wrong, and we saw how to safely stop the machine and get back to resuming the program from a safe point. It also taught us to carefully examine tools before using them :-)

I could probably go on for a while, but perhaps it would be helpful to pause and see if there are specific aspects you'd like to hear about.

One quick summary: If you're afraid you'll be heading to a set of boring lectures and an intimidating sales pitch, don't be. It's a very relaxed, hands-on several days with the machines and the people at Tormach, surrounded by all the equipment they sell for you to see, touch, and either use or have demonstrated for you.

I hope that helps.

[ez3022]

John,

Thanks for the detailed reply. I had almost written off doing the class but your input has caused me to reconsider. The workshop sounds like money well spent, especially when you consider the cost of the machine. Like you, the 'C' is not an issue for me as I've worked as a programmer and systems engineer for many years, but making chips from all this technology is a new thing. And a bit intimidating. I've got a number of 'battles' to fight going forward - CAD (Alibre), CAM (Sprutcam), Mach3, and the Tormach. A lot to deal with. My goal for the workshop going in, is to establish a solid baseline from which to continue to build my skills and gain a comfort level with the machine and technology. It sounds like the workshop will help me accomplish those goals.

If I can ask, what has your experience with the Tormach been like so far? Any second thoughts or things that you wish you had done differently ?

Thanks,

Mark

[deere_x475guy]

This was a timely post for me as I am in the same spot as Mark is. I have been using Alibre for several months now and am fairly comfortable with it. I have had Sprutcam for close to a month now and the trial is about to expire I guess. I was hoping I would be able to get more comfortable with it before it expired. I have the demo version of Mach3 that comes with the Tormach loaded and have been able to make a few simple parts from Alibre all the way to Mach3. I probably won't be buying until after the first of the year and I am thinking about the class in January and then ordering everything there at after the class so I can use the 500.00 coupon.

I have a pretty well supplied hobby/prototype home shop right now. Everything is manual at the moment and some of the products I am currently making on a very small scale will be done on the Tormach.

Mark good luck to you and maybe I will see you at the January class.

Kind Regards, Bob, Skype# boba1618,
http://s2.photobucket.com/albums/y39...ne%20Shop/

[odonatas]

Bob,
I looked over the 358 pictures you've posted on photobuckets including the ones of tubing bender and the air engine. To my eye when you do a design it looks like you take into careful consideration the tools available to you and their capabilities. A lot of rectangular and cylindrical shapes. Frankly I think your designs are limited by your tools. When you go to CNC, and I strongly suggest you do, there will be a quantum change in your designs as they become uncoupled from the machines that are limiting them. It won't happen the first day because it'll take awhile for you to adjust your thinking to what CNC will open up to you, but it'll happen and I expect you'll be pleased.

Unless I'm wrong.

Odo

[deere_x475guy]

Odo, the engine and roller were not my design, I built them from plans I got from the internet. But thank you.

[John Sasinowski]

John,

Thanks for the detailed reply. I had almost written off doing the class but your input has caused me to reconsider. The workshop sounds like money well spent, especially when you consider the cost of the machine. Like you, the 'C' is not an issue for me as I've worked as a programmer and systems engineer for many years, but making chips from all this technology is a new thing. And a bit intimidating. I've got a number of 'battles' to fight going forward - CAD (Alibre), CAM (Sprutcam), Mach3, and the Tormach. A lot to deal with. My goal for the workshop going in, is to establish a solid baseline from which to continue to build my skills and gain a comfort level with the machine and technology. It sounds like the workshop will help me accomplish those goals.

If I can ask, what has your experience with the Tormach been like so far? Any second thoughts or things that you wish you had done differently ?

Thanks,

Mark

Mark, at this point I do not yet own a Tormach, although I expect to purchase one soon. The entirety of my experience with it was in the workshop. From that limited exposure, I'm happy with what I see.

I found that I had to break a few long-standing habits taught to me by my father (in the context of woodworking) as I was growing up. It is not only OK to change tools on the Tormach while it is still powered up, it is necessary. There are times you need to carefully reach into the area while the tool is cutting - to reposition a coolant nozzle or brush away a cutoff piece that will likely interfere with, or be launched by, the cutter soon.

I was impressed by how relatively quiet and safe I found the mill.

I certainly left the workshop feeling confident that I could safely machine some reasonably complex parts with the Tormach, while at the same time seeing how very much I still need to learn.

If you do plan to attend the workshop, spend a little time before you go figuring out what you want to learn or ask. There are many opportunities to talk with experienced machinists there, and their time is at your disposal. In my case, I found I learned a lot more by listening to what some of the other students were asking, as they had more experience in metalworking than I and had specific business interests in using the Tormach. So, pay attention to what others ask and want to see. Also, watch how the machinists work as well as what they say. You may notice something helpful - but I find this applies in many disciplines.

Another piece of advice: be sure to scour the Tormach web site and this forum for information. There's a lot there. I re-watched some of the videos both while I was in Waunakee and shortly afterwards, and there were aspects of them that I felt I understood better for having taken the workshop. The further you are along your path of learning before you go, the more it can advance your interests.

As for second thoughts, none yet!

- John

[ez3022]

John,

Thank you for the thoughtful reply. My hope now, providing the budget works out, is to purchase a machine soon and with the help of an acquaintance who is a CNC machinist get the machine up and running to make some simple parts. From that baseline experience I'm hoping to go to the class in Jan with a deeper understanding of where I need to focus my learning efforts.

Mark