[flud]

After reading several posts related to Joe's Hybrid 4x4 I've decided to try and compile a list for myself and anyone else interested in similar budgetary information. I'm really just trying to figure out if I can justify the cost.

1. On http://www.joescnc.com/kitsplans.php it shows that you can get the kit with all of the precut parts for $400 (plus $35 shipping in the USA). However it also says that you don't get a set of plans or access to the forums. For that you have to pay $100 for the plans and forum access. I'm not too concerned about getting the plans if I buy the kit but I definitely want access to the forums. Am I reading this right?

2. If you buy the kit does it come with all of the parts necessary to build the machine (excluding all electronics and gantry/rail hardware)?

3. Assuming #2 is true then what are the items that are still needed? I'm not looking for a itemized BOM but I would like to get a list of major items for budgeting. From the reading I've done there are motors, controllers, power supply, 80/20 extrusion, lead screws and other items. It all adds up quick I'm sure.

4. From what I can see the electronics portion can be an area that you can easily get carried away with the cost. I also see that if you don't understand the electronics you can buy the wrong motors and controllers pretty easy.

5. Software, the expense that seems to sneak up on ya! Most of what I look at hasn't discussed the cost of software. There is some open source (aka free) software out there that you can put together that will do the job right? Then there are many options to purchase software. I'm sure it's not as simple as asking which one should I buy as I'm sure to get 50 answers about different software. It may be naive of me to say so but I don't want to be limited in the things I can make by the software I purchase. I do realize that there will be inherent limitations in the software but I hope you understand what I'm trying to say.

Well, those are the main points I'm trying to clear up. Thanks in advance for all the help.

[leggazoid]

I am not knowledgeable with this kit, but I will try to help. The first question is what do you get in the kit?
Does it include the 8020.net components?
Does it include the angle iron for the guideways?
Does it include the bearings for the guideways?
Does it include the ballscrews?
Does it include the thrust and other bearings for ballscrews?
Does it include the frame materials?
Does it include motor couplers?

As a comparison the kit that I know more about is as follows.
I don't really think Joes hybrid would be much different in price once everything is purchased. The MDF may be cheaper, but if it gets wet it needs replaced.

www.cncrouterparts.com and www.finelineautomation.com

$1300 for the complete kit (everything but electronics)
$52.50 for each stepper motor, 380oz.
$52.50 for power supply
$15.95 for each cable
$290 for gecko 540 4-axis stepper driver

$1847.85 Grand total for everything

If low cost is your main goal then a smaller machine is the answer.
www.modularcnc.com is the best bang for the buck in small and low cost machines.

[ger21]

I think $2500-$3000 is a more reasonable number. And I don't think there's any way you can build it without the plans by just buying the kit. The kit parts appear to be a very small part of what you actually need to build it. It's only the MDF and plastic parts. You still need all the 8020 and unistrut, and all fasteners and anything made out of metal.

[JD68]

I am not knowledgeable with this kit, but I will try to help. The first question is what do you get in the kit?
Does it include the 8020.net components?
Does it include the angle iron for the guideways?
Does it include the bearings for the guideways?
Does it include the ballscrews?
Does it include the thrust and other bearings for ballscrews?
Does it include the frame materials?
Does it include motor couplers?

As a comparison the kit that I know more about is as follows.
I don't really think Joes hybrid would be much different in price once everything is purchased. The MDF may be cheaper, but if it gets wet it needs replaced.

www.cncrouterparts.com and www.finelineautomation.com

$1300 for the complete kit (everything but electronics)
$52.50 for each stepper motor, 380oz.
$52.50 for power supply
$15.95 for each cable
$290 for gecko 540 4-axis stepper driver

$1847.85 Grand total for everything

If low cost is your main goal then a smaller machine is the answer.
www.modularcnc.com is the best bang for the buck in small and low cost machines.

Is this an accurate comparison? Joe's HYBRID 4X4 is bigger than the two you mentioned.

His kit CANNOT be build (IMHO) without the plans. The forum shared information is worth the $100 entry fee.

[leggazoid]

Is this an accurate comparison? Joe's HYBRID 4X4 is bigger than the two you mentioned.

His kit CANNOT be build (IMHO) without the plans. The forum shared information is worth the $100 entry fee.

You are correct, this is not an accurate comparison as far as size is concerned. I think the info for the 4x4 hybrid kit is terribly lacking and misleading, The picture above the purchase button has the 8020 material. If the page had a itemized list of what was included in the kit and an itemized list of what else is needed, we wouldn't be having this discussion. I was trying to give him an idea to what else is needed and the ballpark cost involved. I have spent considerable time trying to weigh the cost of various CNC kits. I think several websites mislead the people that are just getting interested and not sure what they need. I also agree with you about needing the plans to complete the kit. I just want to help make some ones first try to be successful.

[ger21]

I think the info for the 4x4 hybrid kit is terribly lacking and misleading, The picture above the purchase button has the 8020 material.

I'll agree that it doesn't have enough info, but I wouldn't call it misleading. It says "MDF and HDPE Kit". That's all you get. The picture shows the parts sitting on his machine bed. That's the 8020 you see in the picture, part of a complete machine.

[Mick40]

Well, I first purchased the plans which gave me access to the forum. That in itself is worth the 100 bucks. I then purchased the kit which included the MDF and HDPE. There is a very detailed BOM list on the forum plus FULL support. It's not unusual to post a question and in less than 10 minutes get several replies. My machine is up and running and it has exceeded my expectations 100 fold! Don't dismiss the MDF, it's rock solid and if it gets wet I assure you there will most likely be bigger problems to tackle than the MDF swelling! Besides, every machine I have seen built has been painted protecting it from any moisture.

The cost to build the table is predictable and as you mentioned the electronics in any CNC is where the cost can soar. From what I see, most Joe's are run on fairly inexpensive packages that guys have assembled. I myself was not as talented and chose Tom C. blade-runner package and I'm very pleased with how well it run's my my Hybrid. It's actually over-kill!

Also, don't dismiss the size of the table, 4x4 is more than adequate than most and it's upgradeable! A few talented guys (ok they are all talented), on the forum have upgraded to rack and pinon and are more than willing to share their builds.

I have no affiliation with Joe, just want to share my experience and as others, I'm sure you would not be disappointed.

Mick

[stoneyreef]

As a joes builder and one that made the first 4'X8' machine:


The $100 is only for the forum and the plans and beyond worth it. The kit is for the mdf and hdpe only but makes the build a breeze!

Now with rack and pinion developed, Stretching the machine to a 4X8 configuration will cost about $300 more.

So for $2500 to $3000 you have a 4X8 cnc that can go toe to toe with a shop bot!


If you want a cheap controller, get a keling power supply, 400oz/in steppers and a g540 gecko. Then all you have to do is connect some wires and you are ready to go.

[stoneyreef]

You will need to buy in addition to the kit and plans, nuts, bolts, bearings, 8020, angle iron, router, steppers, router mount lead screws/rack and pinion, antibacklash nuts, couplers/spiders and such.


OH and on top of all that, we have a huge shared models site that is available to members only, a collection of hundreds of people gathering FREE files posted around the internet or files we have created ourselves.

[flud]

Thanks for the replies. I just purchased the plans for the hybrid. I've registered for the forums and I'm waiting for the admin to activate my account.

Just one question, are the plans mailed or e-mailed? Hopefully e-mail. I'm not that patient.

[stoneyreef]

E-mail,

Before you even think of getting out your credit card and starting to order, check out the rack and pinion mod, Dumpster CNC kits, angle iron mod, and 8 bearing mod.

[Hdale85]

I believe the new r&p kit from Cncrouterparts.com should easily fit the 4x4 design. It's what I'm considering doing.

[CarveOne]

I believe the new r&p kit from Cncrouterparts.com should easily fit the 4x4 design. It's what I'm considering doing.

Ahren designed it specifically for use with his carriages and 8020 extrusions, but the pinion drives can be adapted to other uses. It just hangs from one pivot bolt and uses a tension spring to hold it against the rack. I installed two of them this week on a vertical rail that uses no extrusion. Check out my build log for today's close-up photo. The racks still need installation.

CarveOne

[Hdale85]

Yeah I was just saying I'm sure it would be easy to adapt it to other bearing designs. Really all you have is a pivot point and then a place for the spring to attach. It should be pretty universal with just about anything.

[ahren]

There are a couple of Joes builders who have purchased my R&P parts for use in extending their machines. Joe just ordered a set yesterday, so I expect you'll see some updates fairly soon.

Ahren
www.cncrouterparts.com

[Hdale85]

Nice to hear that Joe is going to try it out! I'm so unsure of what direction I want to go with my router when I build it here. I know I'd like R&P though hah.