[rzrostlik]

I see Tormach just announced their new product - a 2/3 sized PCNC, PCNC 770. 10000 RPM, 130 ipm.

See http://www.tormach.com/blog/ They go on sale tomorrow. $6200.

Rick

[flick]

Boo. Hiss. Where's the lathe?

/I keed
//sort of
///actually, it's pretty kewl.
////but I don't need one! I need a lathe!

[300sniper]

i wish they had a 10k rpm spindle and 130 ipm rapids/feeds on the 1100.

that does look like a pretty cool little machine. i wonder what the axis travels are.

[zephyr9900]

Now there's the machine I really wanted when I bought my PCNC1100 three years ago.

Randy

[flick]

i wish they had a 10k rpm spindle and 130 ipm rapids/feeds on the 1100.

Right after I posted, I called this (in my head) as the second reply. And I agree.

On one hand, I wanna think they'll sell a buttload of these to people who value the reduced power and footprint requirements. But on the other hand, I'm wondering if there's really that many people who can come within less than $1500 of affording the big boy, but can't manage to find the space and power.

[zephyr9900]

I would have been very satisfied with a machine the size of a Sherline but built like a Tormach. Almost all of my work is less than 6" long, of brass and plastic and aluminum, a lot of 2.5D and 3D work with 1/8" and smaller bits. Sure, I've taken advantage of the 1100's working envelope, but that's "bonus" beyond my core interests. And a speeder to 30krpm--that would probably never leave the spindle for me...

Randy

[philbur]

I don't think the new mill is targeted as an entry level machine, more at being good at what the PCNC 1100 isn't. So now the question is, "sell the PCNC 1100 or buy a Speeder"?

The video also suggests that you can fit the Speeder to the new machine for a wacking 30,000 rpm! Maybe the new machine is going to need a "Reducer".

Choices, choices, choices.

Phil

On one hand, I wanna think they'll sell a buttload of these to people who value the reduced power and footprint requirements. But on the other hand, I'm wondering if there's really that many people who can come within less than $1500 of affording the big boy, but can't manage to find the space and power.

[rzrostlik]

As someone that had to disassemble the 1100 to move it into my basement, I can appreciate the features to aide in moving the 770. However, after using the 1100, I would not want to give up on any work envelope (I assume it is smaller due to the 2/3 sizing ratio).

It sure would be nice to have the 10 k rpm spindle. I'm curious as to whether the 1100 can be upgraded to that speed in the future...


Rick

[300sniper]

i don't know enough about the mechanics of the 1100 to even know what the limiting factors are on the spindle speed and rapid/feed speeds.

i thought i read here that the spindle bearings may not be good for that speed. i don't know if different bearings could be fitted or an entirely new spindle cartridge could be designed to fit that would allow higher spindle speeds. as far as rapid speeds, would that be the steppers that can't handle it? is this new machine still using steppers? i wonder if the table is lighter weight allowing for faster rapids without loosing steps?

[Tormachmaster]

It does look like a decent small machine I do hear alot of people wanting a small machine with high rpm so I guess it will turn out good as for the rapids maybe a different screw makes this possible? It is a little on the expensive side for the size though. Looks like a good hobby machine.

[levelzero]

I forgot to write the numbers down, but the work envelope is smaller.

As jealous as I am of the increase rapids and spindle speed, I couldn't step down to a smaller work envelope. For me this could be a great machine if devoted to secondary operations Considering all the tooling interchanges with the pcnc 1100 it would also be a small investment.

I personally am waiting with cash in hand for the speeder. I have a very early machine (60ipm rapids), but find more often then not my limiting factor is spindle speed.

[rowbare]

Travel: 13” x 7.5” x 13.25” (X,Y,Z)

[tikka308]

Just FYI - I noticed on their comparison PDF (http://www.tormach.com/document_libr...omparision.pdf) that the 770 doesn't yet have the power draw bar...

I am a little surprised they didn't go the opposite direction with a LARGER mill - maybe 30" on the X and some more Y and Z... Combine that with a power draw bar (or, better yet, a tool changer!) and it seems much more competitive for start-up/home/hobby manufacturing...

[benji2505]

I don't want to appear negative, but I would have preferred to see a lathe or an ATC.

I don't know whether a slimmed down machine is really such a great addition. How many people are really 1.5k short to buy the 1100 II? I don't think the size or weight has kept anybody from buying the 1100 II.

The 1100 is really a cool, sturdy machine and has a proven track record as well as a fan lobby. Why change the winning team ?

Benji

[philbur]

I expect that Tormach have done their homework, I'm sure they get lots and lots of feedback that guide their decisions. Moving your mill into difficult places has always been a bit of a repeat issue, as has 3D profiling with small diameter cutters. It's not a cut down version, it's a machine for a specific purpose. If it had been available when I bought my PC1100 I would have bought the 770, not because I would have saved $1,500 but because it would have better suited my needs. I think a CNC lathe would be a much more risk business proposition.

This machine sells in Norway for $7,720 before tax:

http://www.finn.no/finn/bap/object?finnkode=20346554

I think if Tormach can get shipping to Europe down to a minimum then there is a significant market.

Phil

[2ndSteel]

http://www.tormach.com/document_libr...3-UM-A1-1c.pdf

This link is to the 770 operator manual and after a quick look my hat is off to Tormach for the depth of information that is in this manual. It is professionally done and goes to great lengths to explain how and what a CNC mill does. It is the be general CNC operators manuall I have seen and Tormach deserve credit for the work that has gone into this.

[BlueFin]

I expect that Tormach have done their homework, I'm sure they get lots and lots of feedback that guide their decisions.

Phil

Yes, Tormach keeps expanding, designing new products and making videos, even in this economy. I have seen things being made and sold by companies (and friends) that I would have never, ever, ever thought they could even sell one of them, but instead they are thriving and busy as can be.

I would have bought the big Tormach for my business because I still need a bigger machine (been looking at Mazak's and Mori Seiki's all week on eBay), but if I was a jewlery maker, medical prototype, electronics or any other small thing producer I would have one or more of these 770's on my bench.

What would be really cool would be to set up a 770 in the kitchen and write custom codes for chopping vegatables and blending margarita's, you would have the coolest automated dinner manufacturing tool in your neighborhood

Heck with it's portability and 110 Volt primary you could take this thing camping and still get some work done, I would seriously consider that. I think I might be talking myself into one of these............

[compunerdy]

I could use one to build a gun so I can take care of the pesky guy at the state park running his generator all day so he can mill while camping (nuts)

[flick]

I think a CNC lathe would be a much more risk business proposition.

If they built a small slantbed, there would be absolutely nothing to compete with it, as all the reasonable options for a garage lathe are flatbed manual conversions. If they started with a shortbed/gang-tooled version to keep cost down the market would scoop them up. If they followed that up with a longbed/toolpost/tailstocked version for gunsmithing... well, the firearms industry is incredibly strong right now, so I could see nothing but more success.

And then we could have another 50 page thread full of market speculation and bad blood when someone decided to try making/selling a bar feeder or a turret. (nuts)

[philbur]

Well maybe, but look in the sub-forum: Metal Working Machines and see the relative interest in CNC lathes compared to mills. Also check the volume of discussion related to CNC lathes in the "Benchtop Machines" section. My questimate is a ratio of 10:1 or more, if that ratio translates into a sale ratio then what would you dedicate your limited company resources to?

The fact that there is nothing to compete doesn't necessarily guarantee a market. It could equally indicate that there is a very limited market. To justify the effort you need to sell a minimum number of units per month and you need to sell them month in and month out for years.

Phil

If they built a small slantbed, there would be absolutely nothing to compete with it, as all the reasonable options for a garage lathe are flatbed manual conversions. If they started with a shortbed/gang-tooled version to keep cost down the market would scoop them up. If they followed that up with a longbed/toolpost/tailstocked version for gunsmithing... well, the firearms industry is incredibly strong right now, so I could see nothing but more success.

And then we could have another 50 page thread full of market speculation and bad blood when someone decided to try making/selling a bar feeder or a turret. (nuts)