[CRRooms]

Greetings all,

This is my first post on CNCZone, but I have been actively reading the posts for a couple of years now.

I currently run a part time business where I have a CNC company route all my parts me. I take the routed parts and finish them to my specifications. I am finding that I am spening too much money on the 'prototypes', so I am hoping to build myself a 2'X4' or 4'X4' CNC router.

I am certainly not an expert on CNC routers, so getting into motors, steppers, rails, etc.. tends to confuse me as I am not sure what I will need for the type of work I will be doing.

All of my work is done in 3/8" MDF. Shapes and objects are cut out of the MDF and then I round the edges, do the sanding and finshing in my shop.

I have spent a fair amount of time reading about the JGRO, Joe's and the package from BuildYourCNC.com. All three options seem to be about the same when it comes to price.

The one thing that I do like about the kit from BuildYourCNC.com is that it can be purchased as a 'complete' kit. I could buy the whole package in one shot and not worry about getting the proper motors, steppers, etc..

[URL="http://buildyourcnc.com/blacktoe.aspx"]

From experience, would the Blacktoe 2'X4' setup be able to handle cutting 3/8" MDF with no problems? I am not looking for 'precise' detail as I will continue to have my commercial CNC Routing shop do the bulk of my work. I simply want my own machine so I can get the objects designed the way I need them before sending them out for production.

I will continue to read through the forums to see if I can locate another 'complete' package for a DIY build.

The support from users of the 'Joe's CNC' seems to be exceptional, so that is definitely something which will factor in my decision.

But..the buildyourcnc.com website also has a fair amount of videos which guide you through the complete build process.

Thanks in advance,

CRRooms

[MrWild]

The Black Toe is more rigid than a JGRO. It isn't better than a Joe's. They don't say what is included for lead screws, lead nuts, the type of grooved bearings, drives, power supply, or motors so I'd be leery of the Black Toe package. The package could use weak motors, drives, power supply, and the lead screws could be threaded rod. Too much is left unsaid

[Grovian]

I too am just researching the same thing CRRooms, I personally have decided on the JRGO as my first one, just from the ease of the build, as i am going to be cutting and build it all myself.

After this one has been build and played with for a period, i will use it to make a Joe's. So that where i am sitting on this. You are right though the Blacktoe looks good, but i have to agree with MrWild, there is just to much left unsaid!

[beamsjr]

I am also building a jgro, see my post "First Build"

I have had a blast so far seeing it all come together. The JGRO has been really easly put together, and it's definatelly the way to go if your not going to buy a kit.

[mlabruyere]

I started to build the JGRO but found fabricating the parts to meet my satisfaction was tedious at best. Getting all of the drill patterns perfect and holes properly centered was driving me crazy. I built the bearings using Angle iron....drilled and tapped them and even completed the Z axis and Y gantry but I was not happy with the results so......

I designed a complete 8020 based gantry using Ahren's bearings and what not. I am very happy with the machine I have now.....just a thought.....

[beamsjr]

Forgot to mention it, my jgro is just to get me by until I can save up enough to get all the 8020 parts to finish it. You will notice my z is 8020, using ahrens mounts and rails.

[phooddaniel]

The Black Toe is more rigid than a JGRO. It isn't better than a Joe's. They don't say what is included for lead screws, lead nuts, the type of grooved bearings, drives, power supply, or motors so I'd be leery of the Black Toe package. The package could use weak motors, drives, power supply, and the lead screws could be threaded rod. Too much is left unsaid

The threaded rod for the z-axis is 1/2"-10 TPI at 5 starts ACME precision using the antibacklash nuts from dumpstercnc.com.

The motors are 425 oz-in holding torque using a 36v 9.6 amp rated power supply.

My v-groove bearings are standard RM2 (ZZ or 2RS).

I'm not going to get into a competitive back and forth with Joe's machine as I respect his efforts and he is doing the same thing I am. I stand by my machine.

[CRRooms]

Thanks to everyone for their responses.

I have pretty much decided to use the package from buildyourcnc due to the fact that I can get almost everything from one source. Once I get started, I will report on my progress.

Regards,

CRRooms

[Guido666]

The Black Toe is more rigid than a JGRO. It isn't better than a Joe's. They don't say what is included for lead screws, lead nuts, the type of grooved bearings, drives, power supply, or motors so I'd be leery of the Black Toe package. The package could use weak motors, drives, power supply, and the lead screws could be threaded rod. Too much is left unsaid

In my opinion this is completely false.

• The technical information for all the parts is listed on the website. Some of it is a bit buried, but it's all there.
• He's using all beefy components, more beefy than most of the machines here use. The motors are 450 oz/in, and the power supply is sufficient to power even a few extra motors all at once.
• The drive depends on the machine. BuildYourCNC has options for threaded rod, precision lead screw, and even chain and belt drives.
• The new BlackToe v2.2 is EXTREMELY rigid, and has even more braces added to reduce vibration (but also improved rigidity further).
• I personally find BuildYourCNC's documentation and videos far easier to follow than the chaotic information available for some of the other machines (especially on here).
• If you really need a simple guide, BuildYourCNC even has a book you can buy, which I have read and would recommend for any new CNC'er. The book builds a machine with 20"x40" routing area, however.

I was also really impressed with the innovation that goes on over at BuildYourCNC. Every few months, the author has a new machine, new drive system, or some other technical improvement he's trying out. I also liked that he "wastes" far less money on things like linear bearings, instead using roller skate bearings, and puts that money into better electronics instead. You can use the same electronics to build a desktop machine, or a 4'x8', and they run it just fine. The BuildYourCNC machines still exhibit excellent accuracy and repeatability, even on the ones that people degrade for using threaded rod. (My first threaded rod machine from BuildYourCNC was at about 0.003" dimensional accuracy.)

BuildYourCNC's author also offers a lot of help. He even has his direct email on the site, and responds pretty quickly.

I definately say go with the BuildYourCNC machine, hands down. It wasn't even a difficult choice for me in the beginning, and now it's a no brainer.

[lovebugjunkie]

Thanks to everyone for their responses.

I have pretty much decided to use the package from buildyourcnc due to the fact that I can get almost everything from one source. Once I get started, I will report on my progress.

Regards,

CRRooms

IMO you are on the right track. If I were building a bigger gantry router they would get my $$ for the kit.
I am using cncrouterparts.com carriages and motor mounts for a project I am in the middle of which is mostly 1.5 8020. I will also be ordering some other bits from them.

[lumberjack_jeff]

If you have enough space, and since you have an application for production parts as well as for prototypes, I'd consider a MechMate.

If your cnc outsourcer is unable to meet your needs, you could do it in house.

I built one 48 x 96 one and love it.

[ianober]

I am struggling with the same issue. I am trying to decide between a Joe's 4 x 4 or a Blacktoe 4 x 2. I do really like the BuildYourCnC simplicity in the builds and the completeness of the kits but what kills me about them is the price. I realize that Joes does not include all the parts but I am thinking I might be able to build one a little cheaper than a BlackToe by finding some deals. I have read the feedback on here and it is very helpful though, still not sure which one to go with though.

Has anyone built and used both of them?