[mmckell]

good day guys

i might be in the market for another VMC and i know most of you work in shops with multiple machine types
i currently have a Cincinnati Milicron Arrow 500 with a A2100 controller and i love it!
We are "possibly" looking for a 5 axis VMC and i'm wondering what you people might think is a close tool. i like the cincy for the boxed ways and the simplicity of the A2100 but, is it ever expensive to repair and it runs on Windows NT (way out of date)- a great running machine when it's not being finicky.
We will likely be keeping the Arrow but i will let you know if we change our mind
I've been looking at this
http://www.smsmachine.com/offsite/kitamura.asp
NICE MACHINE!! But I would like to keep it North American if I can
What do you think or is there anything that might be closer to the A2100?
I'd like to reduce the learning curve as much as I can for a new controller... or am i SOL
Or... should i be looking at a new MAG?

thanks for the input folks
Mac :cheers:

[scudzuki]

Cincinnati Arrows have linear guides not box ways.
Kitamuras are box way machines. Same work envelope Kit will weigh another 2 tons compared to your Arrow. Serious machine there.

Joe

[underthetire]

Can't get better than the new Mori.

Only north american machine worth anything is HAAS.

Your Arrow was built in England most likely. ALL but one of our European machines are finicky.

[mmckell]

Cincinnati Arrows have linear guides not box ways.
Kitamuras are box way machines. Same work envelope Kit will weigh another 2 tons compared to your Arrow. Serious machine there.

Joe

i stand corrected! linear guides
would it really weigh 2 ton more? holy crap - i'd have to check that the fill under the floor hasn't settled too much!
thanks Joe

"Only north american machine worth anything is HAAS."

underthetire - thanks for the tip - I'll check them out



have a good one guys
Mac:cheers:

[underthetire]

Never said you should buy one. I would never buy a 5 axis mill unless it's by a high end company. Thats why I said Mori Seiki

Other possibilities
Okuma
Makino
Matsuura
Mazak
OKK
Kitamura

Notice anything about this list? They are all Japanese machines. Take it from a VERY long time ex service guy, buy quality if you are going for high function machines.

[mmckell]

Never said you should buy one. I would never buy a 5 axis mill unless it's by a high end company. Thats why I said Mori Seiki

Other possibilities
Okuma
Makino
Matsuura
Mazak
OKK
Kitamura

Notice anything about this list? They are all Japanese machines. Take it from a VERY long time ex service guy, buy quality if you are going for high function machines.

no, no, no - not buying just yet - still looking at machines and comparing
this is exactly the type of reply i was looking for - thanks for the list
hey look - Kitamura
I'm going to take a look at them all before I decide and then I'll have to pass it by the bean counters - that's usually when it gets turned into a "you can get a machine for this much here... why do you need a machine from there for that much when this one does the same thing for less $$$?"
It's all still fresh in my mind from the last time I asked for a new machine. It's a shame but the deciding factor will be the almighty dollar... therefore, I need to check them all out and have a backup plan

thanks for your time!
Mac

[underthetire]

Trust me, i feel your pain. I have the same issue here. What i found to get around that was to make a spec list of what i need. What kind of tolerance I need,finish, what kind of safety I need, etc. I was a big help using OSHA to my advantage, since they have noise and guarding standards, and the cheaper machines WILL NOT meet those. NFPA helped as well, since they require a NRTL certified machine, such as UL listed ETC. Some counties here require a UL sticker, so I was able to get 4 new Mori Seikis. They would probably ended up with more Hurco's had I not stepped in and stopped the madness.

[rowbare]

Perhaps something like this might fill the bill.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnIvhlKT7SY"]YouTube- 5Axis Machining cnc [www.disn.co.jp] 5Achs DMG/HyperMILL[/ame]

[John_B]

DMG - Deckel Maho would be my recommendation for 5 axis machines if your looking for a dedicated machine. They have the longest track record of truly fine machines in that category.

If you want more flexibility though, you may consider a 3 axis with a 4th/5th axis rotary table add on pre-installed from the factory. This will allow you to mount a vise or two and machine other parts as well, or remove the rotary table and machine bigger items.

[underthetire]

And the worst service/parts in the industry

[John_B]

I can't say I agree with that.

Who was it you were a service tech for, underthetire?

[underthetire]

Mori seiki, Okuma, Tree, and multiple others working for distributors. The DMG is so bad, the company and sister company I work for now won't even talk to DMG, and we had at least 20 of them at one time. I even spoke with the presedent of DMG who admited service and parts issues in the US. They are trying to solve this, but I just tried to order a part for one of our DMGs last week, same run around. Ordered parts for our Hurco, and two Okumas last week and the parts are here the next day. Still waiting for DMG to get back to us with even a part number, let alone availability. All of our dmg machines are now getting sent to scrap. And I know for a fact, if you call Mori for parts even on a 70's manual lathe, they would have them in Dallas ready to ship.

I'm glad you have no problems with DMG, customer service will make or break a machine for sure.