[pld0vr]

I decided to take pity on you. This, among others, is what came up using this phrase in the search "increasing TM 1 spindle speed".

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12255

Again, I don't believe you have read this entire thread. No offense. I even have the settings for spindle speed in my first post as I found them on this site... and also the rapid settings in post #2.

[pld0vr]

I managed to talk to a TM1-P owner, the settings I posted are correct except for the acceleration settings. Don't double them... just double the speed.

[307startup]

My only bugaboo about the whole issue is that with the situation of paying to access features, you really don't own the controller...you must pay in order to be able to use it...after you have paid for physical possession, you now pay for intangible assets. That is the absolute reality of an issue such as this. The factory retains all of the benefits, and none of the liabilities. What is to stop them from setting a times-up feature on ANY hardware/software interfaces, and then charging you a fee to "re-activate" them? It is not only plausible, but very likely that at some point in the future is likely to happen.

As for free-market enterprise, there are NO professional machine tool manufacturers that actually give you complete possession and ownership of their machines in this manner. That doesn't leave the man who is invested in a good position. It's dishonest business, pure and simple.

[mactec54]

307startup

On all the newer machines you do not just have a memory board, the memory is embedded on the mother board, so if your 1mb goes bad, you would have to replace the whole mother board

[307startup]

That is just fantastic. Brilliant stroke...all in the name of efficiency and profits. Efficiency and profits for them...because myself and any other HAAS owner will be spending ours to benefit them, simply to maintain our investment. Perhaps they should pay ME not to pull the proverbial trigger, if I had a hypothetical weapon pointed at their head...thieves deserve no quarter, and have no justification.

307startup

On all the newer machines you do not just have a memory board, the memory is embedded on the mother board, so if your 1mb goes bad, you would have to replace the whole mother board

[pld0vr]

NO professional machine tool manufacturers that actually give you complete possession and ownership of their machines in this manner. That doesn't leave the man who is invested in a good position. It's dishonest business, pure and simple.

I am glad to upgrade to a HAAS machine, but at the same point I miss the open source nature of Mach3... for instance, I installed a tool height setter and probe on my last machine... very accurate... cost including hardware? $75.00, and no that is not a typo.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSxTKdsaM5E"]YouTube- Using probe to center work fixture offset, mach 3, Syil x6[/ame]


I also had unlimited storage, network capability, usb, etc etc

[Xenomorph]

Last year I purchased some software for my PC and installed it. After it was installed I was given the opportunity to upgrade to the PRO version by going to their website and paying extra. So I did and was just given a code to turn on all the PRO features. I did not need to download anything. I was just given access to the PRO features that where already in the software.

This is the same thing that Haas does when they give you a code to allow the software to address the 16 Megs of memory. It is not about the physical memory as current retail for a 16 Meg sim is about $12. It is about your rights to use that portion of software that address’ the 16 Megs. You can not really believe that you own the control software in the machine. You are simply granted a license to use it. Go ahead, decompile it and put it up for sale if you think you own the control software.

My only bugaboo about the whole issue is that with the situation of paying to access features, you really don't own the controller...you must pay in order to be able to use it...after you have paid for physical possession, you now pay for intangible assets. That is the absolute reality of an issue such as this. The factory retains all of the benefits, and none of the liabilities. What is to stop them from setting a times-up feature on ANY hardware/software interfaces, and then charging you a fee to "re-activate" them? It is not only plausible, but very likely that at some point in the future is likely to happen.

As for free-market enterprise, there are NO professional machine tool manufacturers that actually give you complete possession and ownership of their machines in this manner. That doesn't leave the man who is invested in a good position. It's dishonest business, pure and simple.

[307startup]

Are you only capable of seeing from your own myopic position? I didn't say I owned the CODE (the operating system) and the right to DISSEMINATE it...but I sure as hell do own the controller! And the software is included ON that controller. The hardware is useless without the software, which is why it comes bundled. So by KNOWINGLY selling me the controller with that software included, they are AGREEING that it belongs to me. And in the United States, that means that whatever information is IN that little black box, is ALSO my property...for my own use...not for use to compete with them...simply for my own use. But then, I suppose you want to tell me about property law, according to the Federal positions and that of the individual 50 states???

Last year I purchased some software for my PC and installed it. After it was installed I was given the opportunity to upgrade to the PRO version by going to their website and paying extra. So I did and was just given a code to turn on all the PRO features. I did not need to download anything. I was just given access to the PRO features that where already in the software.

This is the same thing that Haas does when they give you a code to allow the software to address the 16 Megs of memory. It is not about the physical memory as current retail for a 16 Meg sim is about $12. It is about your rights to use that portion of software that address’ the 16 Megs. You can not really believe that you own the control software in the machine. You are simply granted a license to use it. Go ahead, decompile it and put it up for sale if you think you own the control software.

[ihavenofish]

Last year I purchased some software for my PC and installed it. After it was installed I was given the opportunity to upgrade to the PRO version by going to their website and paying extra. So I did and was just given a code to turn on all the PRO features. I did not need to download anything. I was just given access to the PRO features that where already in the software.

This is the same thing that Haas does when they give you a code to allow the software to address the 16 Megs of memory. It is not about the physical memory as current retail for a 16 Meg sim is about $12. It is about your rights to use that portion of software that address’ the 16 Megs. You can not really believe that you own the control software in the machine. You are simply granted a license to use it. Go ahead, decompile it and put it up for sale if you think you own the control software.

thats basically it. and its not necessarily a scam, its just the way they can recover development costs. the hardware is cheap, the the software to make use of it isnt always.

now printer ink cartridges...

anyhow, as for reasons NOT to override the setings and up the spindle speed:

more head, faster wear on the bearings, distortion of spindle length. unless your sure that the tm1p with its faster spindle has the same bearing, same preload settings same motor etc, its not necessarily wise to up them. it may actually work, but it may shorten the service life of the spindle.

as for the feed overrides. same deal. the ball screw and bearings have ratings that may not suited for the higher speeds. it might be as simple as a better lubrication system on a faster mill, or it may be larger bearings and ball screws with different preloads.

or maybe haas is limiting it just for the supposed safety factors on an open machine.

just think of mach 3. you can boost the setting up quite high. i can run a dovetail mil with servos at 900ipm... it WILL work. its just not a good idea.

anyhow.

assuming you arent doing any undue damage, its neat that you can tweak the machine up a little. from what i read, it doesnt sound like you had to "hack" it - as in violate the EULA of the software.

[ihavenofish]

So by KNOWINGLY selling me the controller with that software included, they are AGREEING that it belongs to me. And in the United States, that means that whatever information is IN that little black box, is ALSO my property

thats 100% incorrect. and admittedly one of the biggest flaws in the whole software copyright system. think of all the iphones and x boxes that are remotely "bricked" if you hack them. you DONT own the software, you rent it, thats the law as envisioned by the united states government. if you want to fight it, find a team of lawyers and get in line.

[Xenomorph]

So let’s take a look at your position. You state that you own the controller. You also state that because the software is on the controller that you own the software. You paid for your right to use the software on that controller that will only access 1 Meg of the memory. The remaining portion of software was not paid for so you do not own it.

Are you only capable of seeing from your own myopic position? I didn't say I owned the CODE (the operating system) and the right to DISSEMINATE it...but I sure as hell do own the controller! And the software is included ON that controller. The hardware is useless without the software, which is why it comes bundled. So by KNOWINGLY selling me the controller with that software included, they are AGREEING that it belongs to me. And in the United States, that means that whatever information is IN that little black box, is ALSO my property...for my own use...not for use to compete with them...simply for my own use. But then, I suppose you want to tell me about property law, according to the Federal positions and that of the individual 50 states???

[307startup]

I understand what you are saying, I really do. And you are correct, I was wrong on that specific issue.

But if I own a Ferrari, and decide to commit purist sacrilege, and pull out the factory drivetrain, and install a turbocharged small-block Chevy and a Hewland transaxle, Ferrari cannot come and disable MY property. Same goes if I hack the ECU on the stock engine, or if I decide to port & polish the factory heads or add aftermarket cams.

So how does this bizarre situation arise? I can own something, but I can't use all of its features unless I pay someone again...for something I already own. Am I alone in thinking that is completely, utterly bizarre?

thats 100% incorrect. and admittedly one of the biggest flaws in the whole software copyright system. think of all the iphones and x boxes that are remotely "bricked" if you hack them. you DONT own the software, you rent it, thats the law as envisioned by the united states government. if you want to fight it, find a team of lawyers and get in line.

[ihavenofish]

I understand what you are saying, I really do. And you are correct, I was wrong on that specific issue.

But if I own a Ferrari, and decide to commit purist sacrilege, and pull out the factory drivetrain, and install a turbocharged small-block Chevy and a Hewland transaxle, Ferrari cannot come and disable MY property. Same goes if I hack the ECU on the stock engine, or if I decide to port & polish the factory heads or add aftermarket cams.

So how does this bizarre situation arise? I can own something, but I can't use all of its features unless I pay someone again...for something I already own. Am I alone in thinking that is completely, utterly bizarre?

hardware isnt subject to copyright. software is.

if you hack the ecu and replace the software, that legal. if you hack the ecu software itself in a way that violates a written end user license agreement, thats illegal.

its a good law most of the time, but obviously drifts into stupid on occasion.

as i say, if you have a problem with said law, you are complaining to the wrong people. noone here has the authority to tell you you are "right".

[307startup]

Again, agreed.

When you purchase a car, nowhere in the paperwork does it say you are violating an end-user license agreement if you modify the software. Because there is none. Is it easy to crack? No...it is closely guarded. But not illegal to modify.

When you "upgrade" your software, where is the NEW end-user license agreement? Because any upgrades should constitute a new license agreement...you are entering into new terms. And where exactly is the end-user license agreement on my purchase order for my HAAS? I don't recall signing anything, other than my agreement to pay for my purchase (an electronic signature, handled by my financial institution), and for receipt of my product.

As for feeding the sharks, I have no desire. No man has the authority to grant me rights or take them from me. To manipulate a legal system that is reputedly equal among all, is to render that same system moot. I do not play that way.

hardware isnt subject to copyright. software is.

if you hack the ecu and replace the software, that legal. if you hack the ecu software itself in a way that violates a written end user license agreement, thats illegal.

its a good law most of the time, but obviously drifts into stupid on occasion.

as i say, if you have a problem with said law, you are complaining to the wrong people. noone here has the authority to tell you you are "right".

[ihavenofish]

Again, agreed.

When you purchase a car, nowhere in the paperwork does it say you are violating an end-user license agreement if you modify the software. Because there is none. Is it easy to crack? No...it is closely guarded. But not illegal to modify.

When you "upgrade" your software, where is the NEW end-user license agreement? Because any upgrades should constitute a new license agreement...you are entering into new terms. And where exactly is the end-user license agreement on my purchase order for my HAAS? I don't recall signing anything, other than my agreement to pay for my purchase (an electronic signature, handled by my financial institution), and for receipt of my product.

the eula is in the ui, and probably in the documentatoin for the mill. by using the software you implicitely agree to it. it probably flashed by the first time the mill was initialized - possibly by the haas dealer with you nowhere near by.

thats one of the more iffy parts of the law, but as of now, its is indeed law.


if by some highly improbable stroke there was no eula, you may in fact hack and modify the softwar enay way you please. with the way haas sells options though, that would be suicide for them.

[Geof]

Again, I don't believe you have read this entire thread. No offense. I even have the settings for spindle speed in my first post as I found them on this site... and also the rapid settings in post #2.

You are correct I don't have enough time to waste to read everything, just skim for amusement.

Go to the Parameter page and find the axis Parameters. There is one called Maximum Speed and another called Acceleration. Play with these and see what happens.

[307startup]

You forgot to remind him to write down the original settings so he can reset them if his maneuvers don't bring him to his original goal

You are correct I don't have enough time to waste to read everything, just skim for amusement.

Go to the Parameter page and find the axis Parameters. There is one called Maximum Speed and another called Acceleration. Play with these and see what happens.

[307startup]

Just seems like quasi-royalties...much like artists getting a few pennies everytime a DVD is sold, or an old song replayed on the radio. Forget that they already were paid for the album/movie and tour/engagements...

What next? Will Fender ask for ITS share of royalties, since Slash played their guitar on his last album? Will Microsoft or Dell want ITS share of royalties, since Stephen King wrote his last novel on their system and computer? Will HAAS want ITS share of royalties for each and every widget that comes off the machine, since I used their mill?

Or better yet, can every manufacturer get ITS share of royalties for every item that is sold on EBAY, garage sales or flea markets by the former private owners of said product? After all, they will lose money by not being able to manufacture a new widget...and that's what this is all about...profit AFTER the sale. Not continued service or new sales.

Where is the line drawn? Hell if you so much as breathe the word Cobra on a public forum, ol' Carroll Shelby is dialing up his lawyers to litigate...

the eula is in the ui, and probably in the documentatoin for the mill. by using the software you implicitely agree to it. it probably flashed by the first time the mill was initialized - possibly by the haas dealer with you nowhere near by.

thats one of the more iffy parts of the law, but as of now, its is indeed law.


if by some highly improbable stroke there was no eula, you may in fact hack and modify the softwar enay way you please. with the way haas sells options though, that would be suicide for them.

[ihavenofish]

Just seems like quasi-royalties...much like artists getting a few pennies everytime a DVD is sold, or an old song replayed on the radio. Forget that they already were paid for the album/movie and tour/engagements...

What next? Will Fender ask for ITS share of royalties, since Slash played their guitar on his last album? Will Microsoft or Dell want ITS share of royalties, since Stephen King wrote his last novel on their system and computer? Will HAAS want ITS share of royalties for each and every widget that comes off the machine, since I used their mill?

Or better yet, can every manufacturer get ITS share of royalties for every item that is sold on EBAY, garage sales or flea markets by the former private owners of said product? After all, they will lose money by not being able to manufacture a new widget...and that's what this is all about...profit AFTER the sale. Not continued service or new sales.

Where is the line drawn? Hell if you so much as breathe the word Cobra on a public forum, ol' Carroll Shelby is dialing up his lawyers to litigate...

you are soooo missing the point - and i think on purpose. you are comparing apples to space shuttles to confuse the issue.

nearly all softare is licensed, deal with it. you pay a one time fee to be allowed to do what the license states. i can imagine the fits your going to have when windows goes to subscription service.

[307startup]

No, because I am not obligated to use Windows on MY PC. I can use Linux or Unix or any other operating system.

Praytell, what alternate controller could I use on MY HAAS? That's my point. If by purchasing a unit, I am obligated to put up with the companies hoopla at any time, it is not MINE, it is simply in my care. It's called property rights. No company has the right to turn any of my property into a paperweight, simply because they feel they have the right to whenever "slighted".

you are soooo missing the point - and i think on purpose. you are comparing apples to space shuttles to confuse the issue.

nearly all softare is licensed, deal with it. you pay a one time fee to be allowed to do what the license states. i can imagine the fits your going to have when windows goes to subscription service.