[WazMan]

I own an old 1987 Citizen L16 that draws an alarm which reads: "No.13, PROG ERROR (NO ADDRESS)", when I depress the Cycle Start (or Auto Start) button. I've worked on a few 1980's "F Series" Citizens in the past, but never an L16. I don't have manuals, but am able move and zero return all axis', MDI spindle on and off, command collet open/close, coolant on/off etc., but once in AUTO mode I draw the alarm. I can also see and change info in the program in EDIT mode, but have not altered any of its existing, original information. I've tried it in home position, coolant on, collet open (and closed), but always with the same result. There are a few existing programs loaded in it, and I have actually seen it run a program while on my shop floor, however the previous owner was the one who got it to run one, and he is no longer available. I know there must be a few of these still out there and would greatly appreciate it if someone could tell me the "exact" sequence and/or series of buttons to depress to run a program, or what physical state the machine and/or memory needs to be in for me to run a program. Thank you all in advance!

[Tanoga]

I have a 1981 L12 which I'm still using now. The No13 alarm you have is not shown in any of my manuals. Have you checked your oil levels as my machine will not cycle start when they're low.

[WazMan]

Thank you for taking the time to respond and for your suggestion, and congrats on keeping your 1981 Citizen L12 online. Very impressive! [I have a 1982 Citizen F12 that's still running, but it's had its share of issues.] Checking oil levels is a great suggestion, as many times we overlook some of the basic safety and/or general operating features while looking for more obscure sources that may be at fault. My oil levels are good, and I can command the machine through MDI to do just about everything, but once I put the machine in memory mode to run a cycle... I draw the "PROG ERROR (NO ADDRESS)" alarm. When you run a cycle in auto mode, are you in "XH" and "XZ" zero/origin position (i.e.- LEDs for both are lit)? Collet open, coolant on? How do you call out your program in "PROGRAM SELECT"? I know it's a lot to ask for, but if you have the time, I would greatly appreciate your step by step, button by button, procedure from powering up the machine to pressing AUTO START (aka Cycle Start). I'm going to attempt to attach photos of my panel prior to running a program and would really like to see photos of your machine too. Thanks again!
[Couldn't upload photos, says they're too large.]

[RaderSidetrack]

[Couldn't upload photos, says they're too large.]

One way to deal with that is to upload the photos to a Photo Host, then post links here. I use the free Postimages.org for that and it works fine posting links here. The photo host automatically handles sizing images.
https://postimages.org/

[Tanoga]

Thank you for taking the time to respond and for your suggestion, and congrats on keeping your 1981 Citizen L12 online. Very impressive! [I have a 1982 Citizen F12 that's still running, but it's had its share of issues.] Checking oil levels is a great suggestion, as many times we overlook some of the basic safety and/or general operating features while looking for more obscure sources that may be at fault. My oil levels are good, and I can command the machine through MDI to do just about everything, but once I put the machine in memory mode to run a cycle... I draw the "PROG ERROR (NO ADDRESS)" alarm. When you run a cycle in auto mode, are you in "XH" and "XZ" zero/origin position (i.e.- LEDs for both are lit)? Collet open, coolant on? How do you call out your program in "PROGRAM SELECT"? I know it's a lot to ask for, but if you have the time, I would greatly appreciate your step by step, button by button, procedure from powering up the machine to pressing AUTO START (aka Cycle Start). I'm going to attempt to attach photos of my panel prior to running a program and would really like to see photos of your machine too. Thanks again!
[Couldn't upload photos, says they're too large.]

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. This is the procedure i follow.
Press P/Q button and Cancel button at the same time, while still pressing these 2 buttons you then also press the Power On button and hold all 3 in until the ready light shows
(I cannot remember why I do this but a Citizen service engineer told me to do this about 30 years ago and I've never stopped doing it)
Ready light should now be on on

Collet open
Set display to PRGRM in edit mode
Call up program number O9993 then press FWD button

Home X and Z

In MDI with PRGRM light on
G00 then press input
W-50.0 press input then press start (Z axis moves to program start position)
Rotate to single cycle position
W will be displayed with PRGRM light on

Turn coolant on

Press cycle start









Sorry the pictures are upside down. I also have a video that I'll try and upload.

[Tanoga]

Hopefully this video works although you only have 24 hours to view it.

https://jmp.sh/s/1TEISDQfqnQdvKtlcCRi

[WazMan]

My apologies for the late response, and I'd like to tell you how awesome it was for you to take the time to not only type out the exact startup procedure for your machine, but to also include a video - which I did watch before it expired. That's a nice machine you have there! I don't think I've ever seen a 1981 F12 before, especially one that is still operatable after 40 plus years. The oldest Citizen I've ever owned and used was a 1978 "D-10". Hopefully I've attached a photo of it, as well as a photo of a 1982 "F-16" I currently own that needs motherboard repair, as well as the "L"-16 I am currently trying to get running. The "D" series operated very much like true Swiss type lathes (Tornos, Beckler's, etc.) where the turn tools don't move in the "Z" direction, i.e.: the stock is pushed through the bushing past the tools. The "L" series were also similar to them but have slide or gang type turn tool holders, and face drilling holders that move toward the stationary bushing where the actual "Z" axis cutting is facilitated by the spindle (with collect) sliding back and forth behind the bushing / headstock. My F-16 is posted on eBay if you'd like to see more, and I'll probably be posting my L-16 too. From what I saw of your machine on the video, it would appear the difference between your 1981 F-12 and my 1982 F-16 (besides the obvious max material size), was that mine had live tooling and secondary tool rotation in all 5 positions of both turrets. Thank you again for your time... it was greatly appreciated!

[WazMan]

My apologies for the late response, and I'd like to tell you how awesome it was for you to take the time to not only type out the exact startup procedure for your machine, but to also include a video - which I did watch before it expired. That's a nice machine you have there! I don't think I've ever seen a 1981 F12 before, especially one that is still operatable after 40 plus years. The oldest Citizen I've ever owned and used was a 1978 "D-10". Hopefully I've attached a photo of it, as well as a photo of a 1982 "F-16" I currently own that needs motherboard repair, as well as the "L"-16 I am currently trying to get running. The "D" series operated very much like true Swiss type lathes (Tornos, Beckler's, etc.) where the turn tools don't move in the "Z" direction, i.e.: the stock is pushed through the bushing past the tools. The "L" series were also similar to them but have slide or gang type turn tool holders, and face drilling holders that move toward the stationary bushing where the actual "Z" axis cutting is facilitated by the spindle (with collect) sliding back and forth behind the bushing / headstock. My F-16 is posted on eBay if you'd like to see more, and I'll probably be posting my L-16 too. From what I saw of your machine on the video, it would appear the difference between your 1981 F-12 and my 1982 F-16 (besides the obvious max material size), was that mine had live tooling and secondary tool rotation in all 5 positions of both turrets. Thank you again for your time... it was greatly appreciated!

[Tanoga]

My apologies for the late response, and I'd like to tell you how awesome it was for you to take the time to not only type out the exact startup procedure for your machine, but to also include a video - which I did watch before it expired. That's a nice machine you have there! I don't think I've ever seen a 1981 F12 before, especially one that is still operatable after 40 plus years. The oldest Citizen I've ever owned and used was a 1978 "D-10". Hopefully I've attached a photo of it, as well as a photo of a 1982 "F-16" I currently own that needs motherboard repair, as well as the "L"-16 I am currently trying to get running. The "D" series operated very much like true Swiss type lathes (Tornos, Beckler's, etc.) where the turn tools don't move in the "Z" direction, i.e.: the stock is pushed through the bushing past the tools. The "L" series were also similar to them but have slide or gang type turn tool holders, and face drilling holders that move toward the stationary bushing where the actual "Z" axis cutting is facilitated by the spindle (with collect) sliding back and forth behind the bushing / headstock. My F-16 is posted on eBay if you'd like to see more, and I'll probably be posting my L-16 too. From what I saw of your machine on the video, it would appear the difference between your 1981 F-12 and my 1982 F-16 (besides the obvious max material size), was that mine had live tooling and secondary tool rotation in all 5 positions of both turrets. Thank you again for your time... it was greatly appreciated!

I've just realised I told you I had an L12 when it's obviously an F12. No idea why I mistyped that. Must've had L in my mind after ready you original post:laugh: Anyone else reading this must think I've lost the plot:hammer: