[Locster13]

Once again, man's inate quest to acquire and accumulate has prevailed over this CNC fledglings lack of common sense.. So I come to you, the CNCZone community, to see if there is anything left to do but weep.

A local fella of 125 miles away (125 miles is local in Maine), suggested that he had a Tree 310 that he wouldn't mind letting go of since it was a project he couldn't get to and he needed the space.. One of the nicest most helpful guys I've met by the way. So he helped pack it up and I brought it home and unloaded it into the garage.. It was without a spindle motor or drive motors but it seemed like a good learning project...

After spinning X, Y an Z by had with fantasies of the maching spitting out chips as I made parts the new fashioned way I tried giving the crank on the knee a spin.. Uh oh.. Frozen.. And not frozen like sticky frozen, but frozen like this SOB doesn't have a chance in hell frozen..

I removed the lead screw hoping it was the lead screw/bevel gear that was casuing the static state. Nope.. It appears that coolant had oxidized in in the ways of the knee and the casting had morphed into one..

I put a 10 ton press on the knee to try and get it to budge but the shear force of the oxidization was too much for my $17.99 Chinese manufactured / Enco purchased hydraulic press to handle.. How do they make those, ship them 10,000 miles and then sell them for $17.99. Another story...

Was wondering if anyone else has found themselves in this unenviable position and if there is some silver bullet of casting ressurection to get out of it??

Otherwise, does anyone know of an easy way to dispose of a mill.. THe thought of breaking it into little pieces and then disposing of it in the town square through a hole in my pocket like a scene from Shawshank Redemtion comes to mind..

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated...

All the best from Maine-ada,

Tony

[flakker]

this is a long shot, make holes on an angle on the casting body to the ways along the mating dovetails, then pour battery acid or other rusting agents to try to rust the rust out.

[cut more]

Locster,
Sounds like the knee is the only axis frozen? Have you tried mystery oil or liquid wrench? There are some industrial level rust penetrating oils that might help. Also there must be some sort of adjustment on the ways like a gib or something. Back off the adjustment or remove the bolts and oil the crap outa everything. Don't expect it to happen immediately. I once had a frozen briggs engine, put mystery oil in it daily for a week, after the week I was able to free it up and it ran fine for years!
Hope this helps.

[dertsap]

worst case senario heat and lots of wd40 ,

only after exhausing all other efforts

[Locster13]

Since the source of all that is evil was through the automatic oiler I figure that is a good place to try and bring goodness to the thing..

We'll fill the oiler with something very toxic and industrial to work out the rust and let it go for a couple weeks and see what happens. All of this while having no expectations...

I've taken the screw out for the gibb so it can be out of the equation from a pressure standpoint although I'm sure it's rusted in as well..

Thanks for the input guys..

I'm not sure my small mapp gas blow torch would do much since this is about the biggest heat sink I've ever owned.. Getting this 65 degree turd to heat up above 75 would be a miracle let alone whatever hellish temperature is needed to 'melt rust'.. But then again I'll probably try it... If you need to find me I'm the guy buried under little yellow metal bottles..

Any thoughts on something good and toxic to use on this puppy... I'd try the liquid wrench route but I'd just assume start big and not have that, "I wonder if I used something industrial if it would work" feeling lingering in the still soft part of my mind..

Thanks guys,
Tony in Maine-ada

[JPMach]

I once freed up several old tractors with frozen engines just by removing the plugs and squirting Marvel Mystery Oil in every week or so. After about a month they all were free.

Remove everything you can from the ways of the knee and just keep it wet with this stuff. It will take some time but it should go free. If not then like Dertsap said use the torch and heat up the knee by the ways. Don't heat the column as you want the knee to expand off the column. Once its good and hot squirt some sort of penetrant in the crack and put your bottle jack on it again.

JP

[lerman]

I'm not sure what the gibs look like on your mill, but on my Bridgeport (clone), there is a long tapered gib that has a screw in the end to tighten it. Turning the screw in the opposite direction probably won't do much to loosen it. If you can get to the opposite end, you might be able to drive it out with a drift pin.

Squirt in some WD-40 or other agent. Then wait a while and bang on the end for a while. Repeat until the gib comes out.

Ken

[diarmaid]

LOTS of WD40. Soak it in it. Then do it again at least twice a day for about a week. Put something on the ground because the WD40 should be dripping/pouring down. Then get your 10ton or a big hammer and bang it until it moves. Shouldn't take too long after a week of the WD40 treatment.

[Locster13]

OK boyz..

The experiment is underway...

I've hit the mill with the penetrating oil / rust penetrant that comes in the can that looks like it is snake oil or is bought at a swap meet.. You know the one I'm talking about...

A few of the diaper mats are under the knee ways and she is more soaked than Houston was after her quality video..

JP Mach and his tractor remedy took me to Antique Tractors.com since those cagey fellas usually have some decent thoughts as well...

They are into mixing kerosene with the magic mystery tour oil. Some folks swear by using wintergreen oil that can be purchased at our local rite-aid or whatever western medicine toting farmacia that is in you local area..

The experiment will continue with two drenchings per day for two weeks or until the bugger breaks loose.

I shall keep you informed!!!

Thanks again for all who responded. My metanlly challenged mind appreciated you all filling in the blanks...

[Al_The_Man]

I'm not sure what the gibs look like on your mill, but on my Bridgeport (clone), there is a long tapered gib that has a screw in the end to tighten it.

I was just thinking the same thing, on my Excello's there is a Gib slide, as Ken says, if you can take the adjuster off/out and Tap the gib free it should help, the gib should back off the direction away from the adjuster , as some gibs are made of brass or bronze on the knee, so it may free up easy.
They may have reefed the gib in tight to help lock in one position.
Al.

[Dan.antes]

I have good luck with PB Blaster. It is like wd40 but actually dissolves rust. I have used it to unfreeze lugs, rust welded tractor parts etc. If this fails, try heating to an orange glow with an oxy/mapp gas torch causing expansion and quench with oil to cool and contract. Use water if you do this indoors because even thick 90 weight oil can combust when poored on a glowing casting . Dropping parts completely submerged is much safer but not always feasible due to size. Heat again and usually you can free any two parts regardless of how rusted. Good luck!

[RICHARD ZASTROW]

Locster13 Google Kroil . Stuff works great on antique machinery etc.

[Cruiser]

WD40 ! I once was in a hurry to put away a few prized motors (recruiter call and said bus leaves in morning) and I used wd40 and some wd soaked rags figuring as the adds said they'd be preserved, I didn't get back to the motors for 5 yrs and when i did they were an unholy glue ball from the H place ! I had to soak them in bearymans carb dip for a week to free them up just so i could disassemble them for a proper cleanup and reassembly. I only use wd40 now to kill yellow jackets and start fires and even then i must borrow it because i won't own it or allow it in my shop ! SO ! get something else that won't dryout and leave a varnish residue behind, read the fine print and insure it will desolve rust, and warming and chilling will infact fracture the rust bond, if heat is too expensive then try dry ice ! it will do the same thing wrapped in a blanket or 50 .....

[unterhaus]

WD40 is pretty much a scam. I use PB blaster, and it has worked on almost everything. The guy who ran the practical machinist forum had a very similar problem with his bridgeport, don't know if you can find his story.

[blksmith]

getting the gib loose is the place to start, I had an old bridgeport with a broken gib adjusting screw and the gib had wedged in so tight it could not be drove out, I ended up making a drift that I could use with a hydraulic ram and forced it out

[Adobe Machine]

After soaking a couple of days, you should find 6 allen bolts and 3 3/4" (head, they are 1/2 X13 bolts) on the left side knee way /gibb. Loosen the 1/2" bolts 1st about three threads. Loosen the 6 all bolts at least 5-6 turns. Go to the right side and loosen the 3 allen and 2 or 3 1/2" bolts. This should allow the knee to come forward enough to completely break the rust hold. Richard Zastrow is correct, Kroil oil really works.
This knee assembly with the table weighs over 900 lbs, please be safe,make sure your body is out of the way if it sould break loose.
Sounds like you have a long way to go on this unit.Have you checked out the spindle ? You might want to take a long hard look at this boat anchor before you go too far..Possibly you know a good machinest who would come over and look at this machine to give you an honest opinion about the costs associated with repair even to an acceptable leval for manual use..I hate to see a Tree Mill put to rest, but the return on your time and money may not be what you expected.

Adobe (old as dirt)

[handlewanker]

Yeah folks, the tapered jibs are a blessing and a pain in the rump depending how you get trouble with them.
I once worked on an old mill and the knee was so tight it was never moved.
I tried to work out what the problem was but the forman, who had just enough brains to fill a walnut shell, said that the mill had been like it since the day it had arrived, and no-one had managed to get it to work, (over ten years).
It had one long tapered gib, and on the fast down feed had locked itself dead tight, so tight the shear pin had gone. They replaced the shear pin 2 or 3 times and still tried to feed down. Eventually they got it down so far and that was it, nothing would move it.
The head of the jib was still intact, and the adjustment nuts were tight. When I removed the nuts the head of the jib came away. It had snapped off 1" down and allowed the jib to jam tight when the knee was raised.
The full story came out when I started to tinker with it. On day one the mill had been cleaned up and the slides oiled and "adjusted" by the "expert" (forman with miniscule brain).
When the knee was fast fed down it was Ok but on the up travel it started to get stiff and broke the shearpin.So pin replaced and up traverse again, same happened, pin broke. The knee was fast fed down to it's lowest level to test the stops and on going up went tight and broke the pin. No problem use a thicker pin, broke this one too, use a silversteel pin, 1" more and broke it too.
Now the knee was totally immovable, and that is where it stayed.
Most of the work was done using the vertical head because the horizontal spindle couldn't be lowered to meet the job.
The head had a small quill in it and by packing the job allowed an up and down movement to work.
I drilled the end of the jib, which was an inch down, and tapped it to take a 3/8" allen screw and by carfully applying force with the screw and a plate and lowering the knee a bit was able to get the jib to back up the slide.
It took 4 hours and that was into overtime.
Did I get any thanks for it? The boss ordered that the knee should not be raised or lowered due to the fact that it was a faulty design and hadn't worked from day one.
In my early days after I'd finished my apprenticeship,I rarely stayed in one shop for more than three months. This was one of them. It took a while to realise that most of the dregs gravitated to these places and there wasn't a skilled tradesman among them.
Ian.

[diarmaid]

I use WD40 a lot and find it's fine for my needs. Its certainly not a scam. However, oil and lubricants like anything else are many and varied, and there is a specific one suitable for an individual use.

Locster13 Google Kroil . Stuff works great on antique machinery etc.

I google'd Kroil. That stuff looks great. I suggest using that instead of WD40!

[vladdy]

I've had excellent results with a product called Walter's Bolt Out, retails for about $12 a spray can up here...
Used mostly on farm equipment, rust, fertilizer and chemical corrosion, dust imbedded to the point of being hard as steel...half the time works in less than an hour, rest of the time just heat it up to the point of smoking with a tiger torch, soak it down until it quits smoking, and then walk away from it for a day or two...then hand wrench it apart...
Tried 'most' of the others, Wd40 not great on the bad ones, Kroil and Mystery Oil half decent...
Second best one I found was a mix from a local alternator / starter repair guy [ In a Minute Harold].. about 2/3 brake fluid, rest mostly dexron tranny fluid, with a dash of liquid iodine, not sure why it works, but it does work.._

[handlewanker]

Hi all, one of the best penetrants on the planet is diesel fuel. If you've ever had the reason to store it you'll notice that the can is always messy.
When I worked on the mines in South West Africa we always had a problem with the equiptment going tight from dry joints and rust.
Especially the big Ruston Bucyrus excavator parts. A couple of days soaking in a diesel bath usually unfroze the tightest part, and if it was really tight then a bit of heat and a soak did the trick.
I never knew of anyhting that couldn't be penetrated by diesel fuel. Much cheaper than anything that is sold in small cans.
Ian.