[Leblondmakino]

Hi,
I see that Camsoft is capable of 5 axis simultaneous machining but how well does it work and how easy is it to set up? I would be keen to upgrade my cnc machining centre to this open pc based system..any reports... good or bad..?
Cheers
John.

[Karl_T]

For how Camsoft works and ease of set up read this thread:
http://cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19103

Camsoft will have no more trouble doing five axis simultaneous machining than it does with my four axis mill. This is because of the dedicated Galil motion control card (galilmc.com) that provides the real time motion control. I see Camsoft now offers a less expensive motion card, but I can't comment on it's capabilties.

The difficulty will lie with a CAM package to program your machine, unless you're doing all manual Gcoding. Making the POST from this package work seamlessly with Camsoft will take some effort.

Karl

[Citron]

I haven't done 5 axis yet but I researched it quite a bit. I feel pretty confident now that Camsoft will do well. It works good for us so far. I looked in to the 5 axis files they have and played in their development mode with 5 axis and it looks ok. Just like in 3 axis mode.

They say they have a patent on 5 axis kinematics which I think this means 5 axis math but am not sure.

You can watch a couple of 5 axis movies on their web site. They are hard to find and you have to enter your name and address and all that crap.

Johnny

[mactec54]

Hi cnc-it
Seeing that you are looking camsoft is good & I have done there classes
But take a look at SoftServo this is a better system & I have it now on 3
machines

[Leblondmakino]

Thanks guys all very interesting information. I will chack the Softservo sight out too. Looking at all options here!

I see what you are saying Karl. After seeing a few movies on youtube i am begining too see just how coplex and lengthy the G code is for simultaneous 5 axis...

It seems that the 3d cutter comp/5 axis cutter comp is needed on the control HMI software....noticed that some HMI systems don't have this available yet!

My idea would be to buy a cam package that will write the G code for simultaneous 5 axis for example Work NC or maybe Featurecam..

John.

[Karl_T]

It seems that the 3d cutter comp/5 axis cutter comp is needed on the control HMI software....noticed that some HMI systems don't have this available yet!

My idea would be to buy a cam package that will write the G code for simultaneous 5 axis for example Work NC or maybe Featurecam..

John.

My son is a CNC programmer for an equipment manufacturer with several five and six axis machines. This is WAY out of my league, but I know he does all the cutter comp work within the CAM package. I'm always asking him to program for my 4 axis mill with cutter comp so I can change tooling and he just rolls his eyes.

FWIW, he's a mastercam all the way guy. Best one out there and excellent support (almost as good as Camsoft's support ) Of course, a seat starts at about 12K.

Karl

[Leblondmakino]

I see Karl..I noticed that in the Aerotech package they have a G21 for keeping a tool normal to a surface ie.tilting the surface and table or head and tool to keep the tip at the right angle to the part to stop it from gouging...

I imagined the G code from a simultaneous 5 axis package uses this kind of tool normalcy and keeps the tool at the correct side of the contour as well but just wasn't sure how it handled the tool length offset when all 5 axis are moving simultaneosly.

I'm sure it will all become clear to me sooner or later!!

John.

[Citron]

By the way I think the softservo stuff stinks. I would rather trust the galil card to close the servo loop than their method plus I heard they have bugs issues and want to replace good working drives/power supply with the ones they use.

Johnny

[ratrace2]

For how Camsoft works and ease of set up read this thread:
http://cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19103

Camsoft will have no more trouble doing five axis simultaneous machining than it does with my four axis mill. This is because of the dedicated Galil motion control card (galilmc.com) that provides the real time motion control. I see Camsoft now offers a less expensive motion card, but I can't comment on it's capabilties.

The difficulty will lie with a CAM package to program your machine, unless you're doing all manual Gcoding. Making the POST from this package work seamlessly with Camsoft will take some effort.

Karl

What galil card are you using? I'm thinking about building a 5-axis system around the Galil/camsoft products......
Thanks, Ratrace2

[Leblondmakino]

I see Johnny, i was wondering about the bugs issue with these software packages but I have not heared anything bad about Camsoft on this front.

It seems to work very well once it's set up as far as I can gather.

Just not heard anyone report on the 5 axis routines yet!!

John.

[Karl_T]

What galil card are you using? I'm thinking about building a 5-axis system around the Galil/camsoft products......
Thanks, Ratrace2

I've got a 1720 in the big old Mazak, an 1840 in the Hardinge CHNC and a 1750 in the Excello knee mill. Plus a spare 1760 and computer all set up to plug into either the Hardinge or Excello on a moment's notice. I'm starting to get bored, haven't refitted a machine in nearly a year. I may put this card to use in a wire EDM.

Karl

[mactec54]

Hi citrona

I have used the Galil cards to close the servo loop on three machine & would
not use it again after using SoftServo Control

I'm not sure the reason that you would say SoftServo stinks.

( maybe because they won't deal with you )

I have been running SoftServo Controls for more than 6 years & they do not have
any bugs, As you say if they did there Engineers would fix it

I have Mills with 3,4,& 5 axes SoftServo controls & are fitting 2 lathes with this Control
right now & have never had any problems as you are saying

Some of the Hardinge machines are using this SoftServo Control & many other high end
machines also

Also with the Drive problem, SoftServo would not make someone change there drives
if they were any good If the drives were to old then the Galil card & Camsoft would
not be any good either for there drives.

The power supply that is needed for the system is 24v which is the Industries standard
& is needed for almost all systems ( If they did not have this then they would need it )

SoftServo is not in the Drive Business but can supply Drives & motors / cables that are needed to get the job done.
( So they would not make someone change there Drives if they were any good )

They also usually only deal with OEMs so have very little setup problems, There system is almost Plug & Play

And don't get me wrong CamSoft is a great control system & they are great people to go along with it But
every system has it's place.

[Leblondmakino]

Hi Mactec,

Am I correct in saying Softservo will work with any type of servo.

I'de like to use AC brushless from Fanuc with there own digital drives and encoders if possible as I already have them.

John.

[mactec54]

Hi cnc-it
Can you daisy chain your drives together with fiber-optic cable or are they just
wired to the control if they are wired they will probably have an analog conection
they can still be digital drives with a analog input / output the motors can be AC / DC
brushless but for the Analog Softservo ( Versiobus ) system your motors would need to have Incremental encoders up to 17bit Go to there web site they have alot on most of there different Control systems Then send softservo a email with what you are interested in & they may give you acess to other information on other web pages that the general public can not see / use

The versiobus system is for Analog drive setup

[Leblondmakino]

Hi Mactec, thanks for the information.

The drives have one cable each going to the motherboard on the Fanuc and are not daisy chained ie. amp1 amp2 etc but I think it is a fully digital system with square wave command signal into the drive and out to the motor and no analogue commands at all.

I'll need to check up on this though!!

John.

[Mike Stevenson]

It seems that the 3d cutter comp/5 axis cutter comp is needed on the control HMI software

Sorry but no control has 3-5 axis cutter comp. That kind of comp is always done in the cam software.

[CNC1970]

Hi ,

My machine works with 7 axis + 1 spindle,everythings works fine.
My sofware is parametric and complex not easy cad-cam where the machine read point to point
That's is the best way to test a software control they you will see the bugs.

I have both experience with this controls.
Check the service and you will know what I am using know

[Leblondmakino]

Thanks Mike I thought as much but became confused when Camsoft listed 3d cutter comp and 5 axis cutter comp in there G code list...

"G130 3D tool compensation with gouge protection"

"G135 5 axis tool compensation with gouge protection"

"G136 Included angle limit for gouge protection. G136 L#"

These are G codes i'm not familiar with so hence the confusion!!

John.

[Mike Stevenson]

John,

I would love to see those codes in action. There are so many variables to involved with 3-5 axis cutter comp I would like to know how they handle it. (tilting spindles, rotary axis, pivot points, etc.)

[Leblondmakino]

Me too Mike! I've been studying this movie on youtube of a Hermle 5 axis.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFzyBpWtcGQ&feature=related"]YouTube - Hermle CNC 5 Axis[/ame]

At first I thought it was full simultaneous 5 axis but then noticed the top edge
of the A axis table wasn't tilting in relation to the bottom edge of the Z way cover..so this is I presume just tilted plane machining...Keeping the cutter at a set angle to the part..as opposed to the cutter staying normal to the part..

John.