[Ntl]

Ok using the info posted here and Davids suggestion on panels, I ended up for the VFD a 16 x 16 x 10 inch deep panel. It was $98 to my door, admittedly not a Hoffman but it will work fine. Had to swap the hinges side to side so it hangs on the left now. Redid the cover ground wire and ground some paint off the removable panel for a good grounding point.

The Square D 30 amp CB I mounted on the outside top right side so no one needs to open a door to switch it on and off. No contact with live wires is a good thing. Right behind the CB on the upper right side is the nice SS louver purchased from Amazon, same place I got the panel. Behind the louvers are two 1 1/2 inch holes for venting.

The removable bottom plate shown temporally mounted (blue masking tape) has the 12 volt fan motor, hole for spindle cable and the right side has the connector cable hook up to feed back to the main prewired panel and this panel has the jack with wires to hook up to the VFD control points.

Looking good, the vent worked out good too.

[wmgeorge]

Dan, If MeanWell power supplies are only meant for 120 volts why does the nameplate say 120/240 volts ; ). That leaves out about 75% of the world market if they don't work on 220 or 240 volts. Where part of the confusion about the Neutral wire is that people think that its attached to the green or equipment ground inside the device. Not true. The only place the white or neutral wire is bonded to the green or equipment ground is at the main service panel, no where else. There are exceptions for remote buildings and those sub panels.

[Ntl]

Dan, If MeanWell power supplies are only meant for 120 volts why does the nameplate say 120/240 volts ; ). That leaves out about 75% of the world market if they don't work on 220 or 240 volts. Where part of the confusion about the Neutral wire is that people think that its attached to the green or equipment ground inside the device. Not true. The only place the white or neutral wire is bonded to the green or equipment ground is at the main service panel, no where else. There are exceptions for remote buildings and those sub panels.

You're preaching to the choir buddy. I spent 30 min on the phone with the MeanWell tech and he was laughing when I told him about the guy on the forum. He even said that he was going to talk to the company about releasing a document about wiring the supplies to 240v since they don't have any documentation on it.

He said that the power gets converted and the ac is isolated from the the dc and it is impossible to mess anything up.



Dan

[GME]

[QUOTE=wmgeorge;2233228]Dan, If MeanWell power supplies are only meant for 120 volts why does the nameplate say 120/240 volts ; ).

For some inexplicable reason, you are ignoring the fact that Europeans use high voltage (220V and 240V) on a single line, unlike the US. An yes, Euro system do use a neutral. A 30 second search should convince you. I won't speculate how things were when you worked in Europe, I certainly don't know, but the net is replete with information that should inform you. I understand that you and mactec54 don't get along. Fine. But, how can you ignore the thunbnail he added to a post? That's but one of a huge number of sources.

Meanwell units are designed to run on a wide frequency range (47-63Hz), so they work on with 50Hz, which is what's used on other continents. So, if I live in Australia, 240V (on a singe line) at 50Hz is going to work fine with the power supply. Does that answer your question? 240V is the nameplate because 240V is used in other countries (although I believe 220V 50Hz is more common). Also, I believe you will find that the 120/240 volts is intended to refer to a range of voltages, not just the US standard. Look at the Meanwell data sheets, if you need convincing. It may also mean that US 240V can also be used, but that would be meaningless to someone in Australia. Question further answered.

Ok, and I admit that I got it wrong in assuming that you couldn't connect a hot line to a neutral terminal. This is not the kind of work I did for a living, and it was not intuitive that it would work to attach a hot line to a neutral. No big deal for me, because I ran a 4 conductor cable, so I had a neutral for 120V. I had no compulsion to run at 240V, so I didn't feel the need to research the question. I assumed that neutral meant neutral, not Line 2. Rookie mistake maybe, but I tend to follow instructions and not improvise in areas where I'm not an expert. I asked the question here; I got an answer. I wouldn't do it, but that's just my thing. My personal preference, which affects no one but me.

Seems folks become so entrenched in a position that all other perspectives are either ignored, or worse, ridiculed. That's a shame. It stifles the free exchange of information, which seems to run counter to the purpose of CNCZone. Just my 2 cents.

[Ntl]

[QUOTE=GME;2233264]

Dan, If MeanWell power supplies are only meant for 120 volts why does the nameplate say 120/240 volts ; ).

For some inexplicable reason, you are ignoring the fact that Europeans use high voltage (220V and 240V) on a single line, unlike the US. An yes, Euro system do use a neutral. A 30 second search should convince you. I won't speculate how things were when you worked in Europe, I certainly don't know, but the net is replete with information that should inform you. I understand that you and mactec54 don't get along. Fine. But, how can you ignore the thunbnail he added to a post? That's but one of a huge number of sources.

Meanwell units are designed to run on a wide frequency range (47-63Hz), so they work on with 50Hz, which is what's used on other continents. So, if I live in Australia, 240V (on a singe line) at 50Hz is going to work fine with the power supply. Does that answer your question? 240V is the nameplate because 240V is used in other countries (although I believe 220V 50Hz is more common). Also, I believe you will find that the 120/240 volts is intended to refer to a range of voltages, not just the US standard. Look at the Meanwell data sheets, if you need convincing. It may also mean that US 240V can also be used, but that would be meaningless to someone in Australia. Question further answered.

Ok, and I admit that I got it wrong in assuming that you couldn't connect a hot line to a neutral terminal. This is not the kind of work I did for a living, and it was not intuitive that it would work to attach a hot line to a neutral. No big deal for me, because I ran a 4 conductor cable, so I had a neutral for 120V. I had no compulsion to run at 240V, so I didn't feel the need to research the question. I assumed that neutral meant neutral, not Line 2. Rookie mistake maybe, but I tend to follow instructions and not improvise in areas where I'm not an expert. I asked the question here; I got an answer. I wouldn't do it, but that's just my thing. My personal preference, which affects no one but me.

Seems folks become so entrenched in a position that all other perspectives are either ignored, or worse, ridiculed. That's a shame. It stifles the free exchange of information, which seems to run counter to the purpose of CNCZone. Just my 2 cents.

The manufacturer says that it is fine to wire them to 240 USA volts. Why is it that is so hard to understand? Why don't people believe the company who makes the product? How is it that you or anyone else who doesn't work for the company that makes and designs the power supplies can argue the fact? Give them a call and tell them that they don't know what they are talking about. Then let us know how that conversation goes. You and that other dude obviously don't believe me so call them up just like I did. I'm done beating this dead horse, if you guys don't feel comfortable because you don't understand electrical power that is fine. I just trust the manufacturers engineers over some guys posting in a dyi forum. I also think it's a good thing when people are straightened out when they are giving incorrect advice based on their assumptions of how a product works. I guarantee you that if it was possible for wiring it the way the company tech said it can be wired to cause any problems with the power supply or present any type of danger or damage, they would never tell you it's OK to wire it that way.

Those are my 2 cents.

And I'm not trying to be argumentative but it's crazy that you and the other guy don't believe the people who make the product. I'm not trying to pick any fights but some of us are on here for good real information not assumptions based on something some one read somewhere posted by someone else who doesn't know what they are talking about.

It's OK if you guys don't always know everything about everything. Be thankful that someone like me took the time to confirm from the manufacturer that it's fine to wire the power supply with two hots and a ground. I saved you and others some time and the manufacturer said they were going to put together a diagram showing its OK to wire it this way. We'll see if they actually do it but at least I know for a fact not a guess or assumption that it's wired properly.

I always do my due diligence when I'm not 100% about something. I'm also assuming that you don't have any tools that run on 120/240, if you did you would have a better understanding of how it works.

I'm sure you're going to be mad about my post, but it's crazy time on here that you still don't believe me. Call them please and then come back on here and tell everyone what they told you. I promise you you will learn how a switchable regulated power supply works. Then you can feel comfortable if you ever decide to run one off 240v.

Thanks,
Dan

[ger21]

As Al said in post #182, 240V AC is 240V AC, regardless of where in the world you are, and how the 240V is derived.
If a device says it works on 120-240V, it'll work on 240V. It's that simple.

Let's move along, and save me the trouble of deleting all of your posts.

Again, it takes two to argue.

[wmgeorge]

Gary, It takes two wires to complete a circuit. Whether one is neutral or not makes no difference. The neutral can be reversed with the hot wire it makes no difference. The neutral is just the other side of the line. When you turn the plug over in an ungrounded outlet what happens. Nothing, it all works.
I have been wiring all my life, the European, Chinese all are 220 / 240 volts. Some have one side of the line grounded, some do not. Its all the same, 220 volts across two wires.

The neutral IS Not grounded inside the device or appliance.

[wmgeorge]

As Al said in post #182, 240V AC is 240V AC, regardless of where in the world you are, and how the 240V is derived.
If a device says it works on 120-240V, it'll work on 240V. It's that simple.

Let's move along, and save me the trouble of deleting all of your posts.

Again, it takes two to argue.

Gerry just still trying to get the point across, Thanks for posting!,

[Ntl]

As Al said in post #182, 240V AC is 240V AC, regardless of where in the world you are, and how the 240V is derived.
If a device says it works on 120-240V, it'll work on 240V. It's that simple.

Let's move along, and save me the trouble of deleting all of your posts.

Again, it takes two to argue.

Delete them for what reason? What forum rules are being broken? I have no problem talking to industry arena have them send me a email.

Dan

[GME]

There is absolutely no difference between 230/240v 1 phase regardless of the source.

Can you help me out by explaining why 240v at 50Hz is the same as 240v at 60Hz? I've always understood that 240V at 50Hz is different than 240V at 60Hz (240v is 240v, but the cycles per second makes the two different) and that for some things, the difference in Hz doesn't matter, but for other things, it can make a difference e.g., some motors run slower at 50Hz than at 60Hz, To say that 240V is the same everywhere implies that all things made to run at 240v must necessarily gladly run at both 50Hz and 60Hz - or said another way, Hz will never matter. If that's true, I will gladly adjust my thinking. Otherwise, I'm confused.

Thank you for helping to straighten out my thinking.

Gary

[wmgeorge]

Can you help me out by explaining why 240v at 50Hz is the same as 240v at 60Hz? I've always understood that 240V at 50Hz is different than 240V at 60Hz (240v is 240v, but the cycles per second makes the two different) and that for some things, the difference in Hz doesn't matter, but for other things, it can make a difference e.g., some motors run slower at 50Hz than at 60Hz, To say that 240V is the same everywhere implies that all things made to run at 240v must necessarily gladly run at both 50Hz and 60Hz - or said another way, Hz will never matter. If that's true, I will gladly adjust my thinking. Otherwise, I'm confused.

Thank you for helping to straighten out my thinking.

Gary

50 or 60 cycles or Hz only means the AC motor speed will the slightly different. They can work interchangeably as a power source. We used to install VFD's on existing 60 Hz HVAC blower units all the time, a retrofit. You can speed up the motor or slow it down depending on the need. The cooling coils used chilled water for the cooling cycle and hot water for heating. When I was in the US Air Force the AC power on air craft was 400 Hz because the transformers and power converters could be smaller, less weight. Those units could not work on 60 Hz without smoke exiting!

I went to the USAF air craft electrical school, then worked in that field four years. GI Bill for more Electrical Schooling and then later Commercial HVAC and Refrigeration. Worked as a Journeyman and then a Master electrician for a few years and then to the Commercial HVAC field specializing in control circuits. I then taught at a local community college and ran the HVAC program for 12 years. So do you think I am qualified to know about power supplies? Do I know everything, NO. I am still learning.

This is not an argument, its a discussion.

[ger21]

50Hz vs 60Hz is a totally different issue then what's been discussed.
I'm no expert, but I don't even think it's even relevant.

As you said, motors will run slower at 50Hz, but for most things, it doesn't make any difference.

[mactec54]

The manufacturer says that it is fine to wire them to 240 USA volts. Why is it that is so hard to understand? Why don't people believe the company who makes the product? How is it that you or anyone else who doesn't work for the company that makes and designs the power supplies can argue the fact? Give them a call and tell them that they don't know what they are talking about. Then let us know how that conversation goes. You and that other dude obviously don't believe me so call them up just like I did. I'm done beating this dead horse, if you guys don't feel comfortable because you don't understand electrical power that is fine. I just trust the manufacturers engineers over some guys posting in a dyi forum. I also think it's a good thing when people are straightened out when they are giving incorrect advice based on their assumptions of how a product works. I guarantee you that if it was possible for wiring it the way the company tech said it can be wired to cause any problems with the power supply or present any type of danger or damage, they would never tell you it's OK to wire it that way.

Nobody gave any incorrect advice if so, show us which post, Nobody said they could not run on NA 240V most no that they can run on NA supply, but when 120v is available it is best to use it as you don't have to mess around to add the extra FUSE to protect the power supply

It's OK if you guys don't always know everything about everything. Be thankful that someone like me took the time to confirm from the manufacturer that it's fine to wire the power supply with two hots and a ground. I saved you and others some time and the manufacturer said they were going to put together a diagram showing its OK to wire it this way. We'll see if they actually do it but at least I know for a fact not a guess or assumption that it's wired properly.

You did not confirm anything that was not already known, so you just wasted your time, even though you spent all that time on the phone you still have no understanding, of what was posted, and that all you have to do is add a simple Fuse to protect the power supply when using 240v NA connection, Now this is real information not what you pretend you got right, you can't use ( 2 ) Live / Hot wires ( 1 ) having a FUSE and the other Live / Hot line not FUSED

I always do my due diligence when I'm not 100% about something. I'm also assuming that you don't have any tools that run on 120/240, if you did you would have a better understanding of how it works.

And at the end even though you talked for 30mins you still did not provide any new information that was not already posted

The photo which I have posted before shows ( 1 ) Live / Hot line Fused which protects the Power supply for 120v NA supply and not for 240v NA supply, you need ( 2 ) Fuses to protect the power supply when using 240v NA power supply

Now is this crazy no it is common standard electrical practice it has nothing to do with will it run on 240v NA supply we all no that they will, they where just not designed to run on 240v NA supply the missing FUSE tells you that, I think anyone can make there own judgment as to what is correct

[wmgeorge]

Veterans Day even as I was a Vietnam veteran I never got shot at, just worked on the Air Craft. I salute you Vets from any war as November 11th is tomorrow. Thank you for your service.

[Al_The_Man]

Can you help me out by explaining why 240v at 50Hz is the same as 240v at 60Hz?
Thank you for helping to straighten out my thinking.

Gary

OK, You are partly correct, I omitted the cycles difference which as already covered by someone that the difference is only obvious with frequency sensitive devices such as induction motors etc, things such as SMPS etc do not show any difference.
Incidentally I started out in life as a Master Electrician in the UK and went on to obtain qualifications in Industrial Electronics, before coming to N.A. where I continued with implementing factory PLC and CNC systems and retro-fits. As well as designing my own CNC PC based systems around the Galil Motion products.

As an aside note: I would Never considered using SMPS for servo drives etc, I very much prefer the simple linear supply method which usually results in a much more reliable supply, and is also very easily fixed, Should it fail.
Al..

[ericks]

...

[ericks]

OK, You are partly correct, I omitted the cycles difference which as already covered by someone that the difference is only obvious with frequency sensitive devices such as induction motors etc, things such as SMPS etc do not show any difference.
Incidentally I started out in life as a Master Electrician in the UK and went on to obtain qualifications in Industrial Electronics, before coming to N.A. where I continued with implementing factory PLC and CNC systems and retro-fits. As well as designing my own CNC PC based systems around the Galil Motion products.

As an aside note: I would Never considered using SMPS for servo drives etc, I very much prefer the simple linear supply method which usually results in a much more reliable supply, and is also very easily fixed, Should it fail.
Al..

I agree about the linear power supplies.....should have used one for my build, maybe next time!

[mactec54]

Wow.....most on here are Master Electricians I am just a standard Electrician. From now on i will rather leave the technical stuff to the experts!

That's just a word and does not imply that they are more qualified than what you are, it's exposure experience and hands on that counts as well

You already are a master electrician live in a different part of the world that does not use that term

Becoming a journeyman electrician is the first step to earning the distinction of a master electrician.

Serving as the main licensing qualification, a journeyman electrician requires a two-year degree or certificate in electrical courses

Or four years of intensive experience under the supervision of a master electrician.

[ericks]

That's just a word and does not imply that they are more qualified than what you are, it's exposure experience and hands on that counts as well

I was just kidding

[Ntl]

Nobody gave any incorrect advice if so, show us which post, Nobody said they could not run on NA 240V most no that they can run on NA supply, but when 120v is available it is best to use it as you don't have to mess around to add the extra FUSE to protect the power supply



You did not confirm anything that was not already known, so you just wasted your time, even though you spent all that time on the phone you still have no understanding, of what was posted, and that all you have to do is add a simple Fuse to protect the power supply when using 240v NA connection, Now this is real information not what you pretend you got right, you can't use ( 2 ) Live / Hot wires ( 1 ) having a FUSE and the other Live / Hot line not FUSED



And at the end even though you talked for 30mins you still did not provide any new information that was not already posted

The photo which I have posted before shows ( 1 ) Live / Hot line Fused which protects the Power supply for 120v NA supply and not for 240v NA supply, you need ( 2 ) Fuses to protect the power supply when using 240v NA power supply

Now is this crazy no it is common standard electrical practice it has nothing to do with will it run on 240v NA supply we all no that they will, they where just not designed to run on 240v NA supply the missing FUSE tells you that, I think anyone can make there own judgment as to what is correct

Didn't waist my time, I know exactly how it works now. You should call them up and educate yourself. Also no one ever said it shouldn't have circuit protection, standard practice. You think you know everything, you don't. When you're wrong you change the narrative to fit your statement. You went from it shouldn't be done to something about fuses. I'm done debating you on something that you are not qualified to talk about. All I'm doing is telling you guys that the company who makes the product says it's designed to run off 240 volts and I know you didn't talk to them. If you did you wouldn't still not understand how the power gets converted and that it's impossible to damage anything. The ac is isolated from the DC. What don't you understand about this fact. I'm sure if you pulled the heads off my SBC you could tell me what the cc port is as well as engine displacement just by looking at it right?

Dan