[hoss2006]

Boxed ways are used in heavy duty machines like a Matsuura, very rigid and accurate.
Pretty simple construction too.
Found a pic that shows them on a Seiki.
Just a thought as you wouldn't need to buy a dovetail cutter.
Below 7 degrees can become self locking, no worry with 45 or 60.
Good to hear the prints were OK, looking forward to seeing it all come together.
Hoss

[pete from TN]

That is some nice work there, but for someone who sounded like they did not want to build a mill from scratch you are well on your way. I am constantly amazed by what you guys with these X2 machines can do and I am also nearly as surprised at why? Is the millhead and column of this machine capable of working on that much overhang and not be as loose as a noodle? I see how Hoss did his and it obviously works but I gotta wonder if the machine was stronger when it was not hanging the millhead six inches further from the column.

My Lathemaster mill has some decent travels and I was looking at moving the column back on the base an inch or two with a large spacer plate and got lots of naysayers that said it would seriously weaken the rigidity. Several times larger and heavier than the X2 yet you guys have no problem stretching it every way from sunday. Am I missing something here? I also get that you said it is mostly a hobby for you but you would not spend that much time and I am sure money modding something if you did not at least hope it was gonna be a useful and capable machine when done.

I have watched Hoss's freak cut aluminum and other materials on his videos and it seems to cut quite well and his machine is of course heavily modded. What gives? peace....

[Farasien]

Hey Pete-

Like most hobbies, machine building can get out of hand. I have no specific timeline (or a real defined budget, for that matter) for this project, I just enjoy doing it. When I see an engineering problem, it sets my mind working and before too long (weather I try to or not) the answers start to haunt me, and I feel that I have to address them. Its like an itch you can't ignore. Well, one -I- can't ignore, anyway.

As far as the machine rigidity is concerned, alot of the problem comes in for the material you are planning to be cutting. Though its hard to predict the ultimate end uses you'll put a machine to, you can usually make an educated guess from the outset and then go from there in your design. Do you plan on making alot of stainless parts, make really heavy cuts (as in, is this a real production machine or are you just messing around?) or will aluminum and mild steel work for you? Are you making a plastic cutting machine (That's where I started, but found I really like machining aluminum)? How many axes do you need to do the work you want to do? In my case, the more I got into this hobby, the more I learned how much I was ultimately going to need for the operations I wanted the machine to do. I went from the 'Eh... I can use a 2.5 axis machine with tolerances of +/- 0.1 inches.' level to 'I want a fully automated 6 axis machine with +/- 0.005 accuracy.' pretty fast- not only because it will make what I want to DO with the thing easier (tool and fixture changes SUCK) but because I enjoy the challenge of doing it. The X1/2/3 machines have pretty sloppy for tolerances right out of the box and though are not made to be extreme quality machines, the engineering that went into their design is fairly loose and lends itself well to modification. That's the real value of these machines more than anything else. Other machines are made more for right-out-of-the-box use and are not as tolerant of home engineering, so really are more for a typical shop-bought machine.

Hope that answers the question...

-Farasien

[pete from TN]

Thanks for the reply, I glean from your response that you understood my post was not meant to antagonize. It wasn't..... I am genuinely impressed with the ideas and skills brought to bear on these X series machines and the imagination flowing from them is amazing to say the least. Much of what I have done to my machine and the inspiration more importantly I have for this whole thing stems greatly from the ingenuity exhibited here.

I would LOVE to have a machine that had double the Y axis travel I currently have and still be rigid and accurate for my needs. I would LOVE to have twice the X travel as well as many other issues that I have not already addressed in my buildup. Truth be told I wish I had the coinage for a Tormach or IH stand alone cnc mill but I simply do not. So therefore I am not immune to the idea of buying what you want or can afford and modding it to do what you desire wether for fun or profit does not matter really. The base you have built looks solid enough to be underneath my machine and carry all of it's 800 pounds!! I salute you for that. I am just wondering if there is something that can be done to either move the head out more and still maintain same rigidity or better yet increase it. If you are going to go to the trouble to build the whole base it seems to not be that far a stretch to remake the column somehow and add some METAL to it that would make it capable of utilizing the added travels of the table. Hoss's machine has that articulating collar and it appears to have at the least stiffened things up a bit to account for the added leverage of the millhead and also allows for some accurate alignment as well it seems. I once saw a post on a taig that had pictures of a seriously gusseted column that went back from the rear of the machine in a kinda triangle straight back and had triangulated gussets seemingly everywhere. That is kinda what I am talking about. I am sure it would not be easy to build this but from the looks of that base you are more than capable it seems. Just a thought man, and again thanks for not flaming me with your reply.... peace

[Farasien]

Hey Pete-

Not a problem. There is a little counterblast from some people here because, like in almost any forum of any kind, there are trolls who come on and antagonize-because they can- and people whose minds can get around the idea that others don't see things the same way as them, and so argue to try and get people to see things their way.

As far as the column, yes, I have a few ideas turning around in my head. For my current X2, I did some heavy rework of things to stiffen up the column. I bought a 24X1X6' chunk of aluminum, drilled about 30 holes through it and tha back of the column (after filling it with polymner concrete) and bolted 2 12X10X5/8 plates to the sides of the aluminum plate, than this whole thing to a base plate of aluminum. I also machined a spacer plate to fit between the space of the bottom of the aluminum column plate and the base, wchich I also tapped and bolted through the bottom of the spacer plate into the base itself. I'll try to get a few pictures when I can (I'm goofing off @ work atm) on here. Anyway, I did all this because I got paranoid about machine rigidity. Its solid, but I have a better idea for the new column.

For the new one, I'm thinking of getting a plate of aluminum 2X4X24 to which I'll bolt some dovetails for the head (unless you can tell me, Hoss, how I could make vertical boxed ways somehow... I'm probably going that route, by the way-Thanks again!). To the back of that plate, I'll likely bolt another 2 steel 2X4's (or weld them, if I can get access to the school's weld shop again). The bottom of this will get bolted to a heavy steel base plate underneath the whole machine. I think this ought to be damn-near rock solid when its done, though I still have a few other issues to work out.

As far as extending out the head, that's possible using Hoss's idea. I'm doing something similar- Using one of those cheaper 4' rotary tables you can get off eBay, I made a mounting for the space between the head and the head mount block. I can CNC the rotary table making a powered 5th axis. Combined with the tilt mod Hoss came up withm its a little more than Hoss's in length, and if I end up needing more (which I very well might with the extra Y travel) I cal always make a spacer plate to bolt in between things.

I'm finding this is a little like building a high performance engine... There is an increasingly nagging amount of tradeoff in this. More Y travel makes for more bracing required for the column, making for a larger footprint making it less likely to be a true 'benchtop' machine.... By the time I'm done, I'll likely have a full-sized Haas by the way I'm going...

-Farasien