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  1. #1

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    May 2021
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    Basic Wiring Questions for VFD

    Hi all,

    I actually have 2 hopefully easy basic questions. I have an older 4x4 Avid CNC and I am upgrading to a new VFD spindle. I am struggling badly to find a wiring diagram (if you know where I can get one PLS let me know). I have an older ethernet smooth stepper motion controller with the C10 breakout boards.
    Q1, Since this is only 5v must I use a relay for the ON signal because the VFD has a 24v signal out from the MI1 back to DOM OR is there a relay in the C10 board that I am not aware of that can handle this?

    Q2, Why can I never get the PWM reference voltage in Mach3 to change as it is always on a 5v signal. I believe I have all the correct settings in Mach but I am obviously missing one somewhere. I put a couple of quick snips to see in case someone had a thought

  2. #2
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    Re: Basic Wiring Questions for VFD

    Quote Originally Posted by RufusToad View Post
    Hi all,

    I actually have 2 hopefully easy basic questions. I have an older 4x4 Avid CNC and I am upgrading to a new VFD spindle. I am struggling badly to find a wiring diagram (if you know where I can get one PLS let me know). I have an older ethernet smooth stepper motion controller with the C10 breakout boards.
    Q1, Since this is only 5v must I use a relay for the ON signal because the VFD has a 24v signal out from the MI1 back to DOM OR is there a relay in the C10 board that I am not aware of that can handle this?

    Q2, Why can I never get the PWM reference voltage in Mach3 to change as it is always on a 5v signal. I believe I have all the correct settings in Mach but I am obviously missing one somewhere. I put a couple of quick snips to see in case someone had a thought
    What VFD Drive do you have, there is more than one way to control them normally

    Your setting in Mach3 Spindle is incorrect, PWM can only be a max of 100 and 30% should be (0), PWM=100=10v
    Mactec54

  3. #3

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    Re: Basic Wiring Questions for VFD

    Hi mactec54, I have the Delta VFD022EL21A
    10/4 on the PWM, I will make the change

  4. #4
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    Re: Basic Wiring Questions for VFD

    Quote Originally Posted by RufusToad View Post
    Hi mactec54, I have the Delta VFD022EL21A
    10/4 on the PWM, I will make the change
    Which C10 Breakout Board do you have, is from CNC4PC? or some other, you would see the Relay if it was on the Breakout Board post a Photo.
    Mactec54

  5. #5

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    Re: Basic Wiring Questions for VFD

    AH that makes sense now that you say that. I do not see a relay on here? So a question would be is there a different breakout board I could use OR is it just as easy to install a 24v SSR in the cabinet?? Probable no advantage for getting a new board is there?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails C10 Board.jpg  

  6. #6
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    Re: Basic Wiring Questions for VFD

    Quote Originally Posted by RufusToad View Post
    AH that makes sense now that you say that. I do not see a relay on here? So a question would be is there a different breakout board I could use OR is it just as easy to install a 24v SSR in the cabinet?? Probable no advantage for getting a new board is there?
    Just get a DC Relay that suits you C10 output, as the Relay does not see any voltage on the output side, it is just a switch between the MI1 and DCM

    Something like either of these will work, the SSR being a little more expensive, a better all-round choice.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Relay 5v.jpg   Relay SSR.PNG  
    Mactec54

  7. #7

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    Re: Basic Wiring Questions for VFD

    Thanks again Mactec54 I really appreciate your time and great input.
    I finally received a new SSR relay and now have my spindle up and running great thanks to your help.
    I am so very close, but I cannot for the life of me understand why my PWM voltage will not change and is a constant 5v out of my board. I have the PWM set to be Port 1 pin 17. I have gone over mach3 manual 5 times but I am missing something easy, I am sure. Would you just glimpse at these settings and see if something jumps out at you?? The white wire in the pic is my PWM and is Port 1 pin 17 (this is just temp wiring). Shouldn't that voltage change as I change the speed in Mach?

  8. #8
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    Re: Basic Wiring Questions for VFD

    Quote Originally Posted by RufusToad View Post
    Thanks again Mactec54 I really appreciate your time and great input.
    I finally received a new SSR relay and now have my spindle up and running great thanks to your help.
    I am so very close, but I cannot for the life of me understand why my PWM voltage will not change and is a constant 5v out of my board. I have the PWM set to be Port 1 pin 17. I have gone over mach3 manual 5 times but I am missing something easy, I am sure. Would you just glimpse at these settings and see if something jumps out at you?? The white wire in the pic is my PWM and is Port 1 pin 17 (this is just temp wiring). Shouldn't that voltage change as I change the speed in Mach?
    The only way to check the output 0-10v is by using MDI and type in M3S12000 this would give you around 5v M3S24000 should give you around 10v.

    I will check what I have for the smooth Stepper settings

    Do you have the correct step port set?
    Mactec54

  9. #9
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    Re: Basic Wiring Questions for VFD

    I don't see the spindle setup in the Smooth Stepper it should have a box like this.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Smooth Stepper.PNG  
    Mactec54

  10. #10

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    Re: Basic Wiring Questions for VFD

    Is this what you are looking for?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Spindle ESS Config.jpg  

  11. #11
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    Re: Basic Wiring Questions for VFD

    Quote Originally Posted by RufusToad View Post
    Is this what you are looking for?
    Correct the PWM should be 100 not 599
    Mactec54

  12. #12

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    Re: Basic Wiring Questions for VFD

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    Correct the PWM should be 100 not 599
    10/4 I will make that change and see what happens


    "The only way to check the output 0-10v is by using MDI and type in M3S12000 this would give you around 5v M3S24000 should give you around 10v"

    I have done this many times and cannot get the voltage to change. It is always 5v which is why I am really lost on.

  13. #13
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    Re: Basic Wiring Questions for VFD

    Quote Originally Posted by RufusToad View Post
    10/4 I will make that change and see what happens


    "The only way to check the output 0-10v is by using MDI and type in M3S12000 this would give you around 5v M3S24000 should give you around 10v"

    I have done this many times and cannot get the voltage to change. It is always 5v which is why I am really lost on.
    Then it is a configuration problem something is not correct with the pin selection

    Check it from the C10 Board first than add the SmoothStepper
    Mactec54

  14. #14

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    Re: Basic Wiring Questions for VFD

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    Then it is a configuration problem something is not correct with the pin selection

    Check it from the C10 Board first than add the SmoothStepper
    I disabled pin 17 in mach and I lost voltage at that pin so I think everything is good in the ribbon cable and smooth stepper.
    How does mach know that Spindle pin 17 is the PWM port?
    Is having the pin and port number on step pin and step port correct?

  15. #15
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    Re: Basic Wiring Questions for VFD

    Quote Originally Posted by RufusToad View Post
    I disabled pin 17 in mach and I lost voltage at that pin so I think everything is good in the ribbon cable and smooth stepper.
    How does mach know that Spindle pin 17 is the PWM port?
    Is having the pin and port number on step pin and step port correct?
    Post a shot of the Mach3 outputs
    Mactec54

  16. #16

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    Re: Basic Wiring Questions for VFD

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    Post a shot of the Mach3 outputs
    Just have these 3 enabled. #2 output is spindle on.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Outputs.PNG  

  17. #17
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    Re: Basic Wiring Questions for VFD

    Quote Originally Posted by RufusToad View Post
    Just have these 3 enabled. #2 output is spindle on.
    What about using Pin 17 or 16 for output 2 Spindle On.

    Output 1 setup to Pin1 Port 1 and use this for PWM to Analog 0-10v

    Spindle setup= step pin 1 Port 1

    I don't think this will change anything; your C10 Breakout Board does not have a PWM to Analog converter, so it has no way to process the PWM from Mach3 to give you the output you need. it's a very basic Breakout Board
    Mactec54

  18. #18

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    Re: Basic Wiring Questions for VFD

    I have not tried that but I definitely will if you think its worth a shot.

    "your C10 Breakout Board does not have a PWM to Analog converter, so it has no way to process the PWM from Mach3 to give you the output you need. it's a very basic Breakout Board"

    That's a little confusing to me. I thought Mach estimated that frequency then the Smooth Stepper converted that voltage not the breakout?
    Very odd because I was told this board would definitely work with PWM by someone that teaches classes on these panels BUT with that said I have not ever been able to change this voltage.

    Can you recommend to me a board that will work with 0-5v and work with the Smooth Stepper? It appears that the C11G could be a direct replacement for the C10 and connect to the Smooth Stepper. If you thought this was a good option and fairly easy I would get it to try?

    https://www.automationtechnologiesin...ard-for-mach-3

  19. #19
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    Re: Basic Wiring Questions for VFD

    Quote Originally Posted by RufusToad View Post
    I have not tried that but I definitely will if you think its worth a shot.

    "your C10 Breakout Board does not have a PWM to Analog converter, so it has no way to process the PWM from Mach3 to give you the output you need. it's a very basic Breakout Board"

    That's a little confusing to me. I thought Mach estimated that frequency then the Smooth Stepper converted that voltage not the breakout?
    Very odd because I was told this board would definitely work with PWM by someone that teaches classes on these panels BUT with that said I have not ever been able to change this voltage.

    Can you recommend to me a board that will work with 0-5v and work with the Smooth Stepper? It appears that the C11G could be a direct replacement for the C10 and connect to the Smooth Stepper. If you thought this was a good option and fairly easy I would get it to try?

    https://www.automationtechnologiesin...ard-for-mach-3
    If it is the person I think it, is he is not qualified in electronic or electrical installation. and does a poor job of what he does.

    PWM if you get it working, and your VFD Drive can accept PWM then yes it can work, some VFD Drives will take PWM, your VFD Drive is looking for 0-10v analog not straight PWM

    You already have the Smooth Stepper; you have Port 2, you can attach another simple Breakout Board to Port 2 that has a PWM to Analog converter, or even just change out the Port 1 C10 Breakout Board for one that does everything, C10 was a bad choice for the main board.
    Mactec54

  20. #20

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    Re: Basic Wiring Questions for VFD

    Not sure but would not think you would know him.

    I have made a mistake in which I posted this on another thread and though it was in here but you are missing a big chunk of the puzzle. I am converting to a VFD / spindle and before this was being controlled by a SuperPID thus the reason for a C10 board. The PID was converting the PWM so I am sorry I really thought that was posted. I got a little confused because the PID board only turned on and off the spindle and for some reason I could never get it to work with PWM control.
    I am going to purchase the C11g which I hope is a direct bolt up replacement and I wire it up so I can tighty up the panel and not use a bunch of relays etc. Stay tuned I am sure I will have more questions.

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