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IndustryArena Forum > WoodWorking Machines > DIY CNC Router Table Machines > bought a used 48" X 48" X 5" used router table
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  1. #1

    Smile bought a used 48" X 48" X 5" used router table

    I realize this is the DIY part of the forum, but i thought i would post a quick note here as that is where i got so much research help in the past.

    it is a Techno/Isel table, 48" X 48" X 5" working area. it has servos, but no drivers, and a Perske VS 60.11-2 5HP, 3-phase spindle. no controllers, or drivers, but i bought it as a fixer-upper to get me going strong. right now it is under a tarp on the trailer still, but when i make room for it, i will be able to take detailed pictures, and research parts for it. overall, i am pleased with it, and it only cost me $500. (i think it is a good deal...)
    Anyway, as i learn more about it, i will post in the correct forum about it. or is it considered DIY to rebuild a CNC router?

    Anyway, thanks for all the help in the recent past, and i look forward to getting this machine up and going. :cheers:

    ~Travis
    Techno Isel Gantry III (?) base machine. EMC/LinuxCNC controller.
    about 48 X 48 X 5 inch working, Makita RF1101

  2. #2
    Community Moderator Jim Dawson's Avatar
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    Re: bought a used 48" X 48" X 5" used router table

    Looking forward to seeing the pictures. Sounds like a fun project. For $500, if it's in reasonably good mechanical shape I would say you got a deal. :cheers:

  3. #3
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    Re: bought a used 48" X 48" X 5" used router table

    That is one hell of a bargain.

    Updating the electronics, effectively replacing all the missing stuff, will take some time and money but there are few well designed frames that you could do for $500.

  4. #4
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    Re: bought a used 48" X 48" X 5" used router table

    It would be a good deal for the spindle alone!

  5. #5

    Re: bought a used 48" X 48" X 5" used router table

    I took a few pics to show my new (to me) router.

    it is still on the trailer, and yes, i know it is perched rather scary for transport. that is what happens when you know the frame width of the CNC is 5 foot, and you foolishly think a 5 foot wide trailer, is actually as advertised.

    so anyway, it currently sits under a heavy duty tarp while i make room for it. but it is home

    ~Travis
    Techno Isel Gantry III (?) base machine. EMC/LinuxCNC controller.
    about 48 X 48 X 5 inch working, Makita RF1101

  6. #6

    Re: bought a used 48" X 48" X 5" used router table

    just for reference, what size stepper do you all think i would be looking at? just a rough idea. right now, it has brushed DC servo motors, though the encoders are floppy, so i doubt i will want to re-use them.

    the spindle, being 5HP, 3-phase. i assume i need something like a VFD unit? admitedly, i know very little about 3-phase motors.

    ~Travis
    Techno Isel Gantry III (?) base machine. EMC/LinuxCNC controller.
    about 48 X 48 X 5 inch working, Makita RF1101

  7. #7
    Community Moderator Jim Dawson's Avatar
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    Re: bought a used 48" X 48" X 5" used router table

    Why not use the existing DC servo motors? The drives are only slightly more expensive than the cheapest stepper drives. Not sure what you mean by the encoders being ''floppy''

    Yes, you will need a VFD to run the spindle. If you don't have 3 phase in your shop, you will need a 5hp VFD that will accept a single phase input.

  8. #8
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    Re: bought a used 48" X 48" X 5" used router table

    You should be able to run those servos with Gecko G320; just need to figure out rated voltage for a PSU. Don't know if the encoders are compatible, but you can replace them.

  9. #9

    Re: bought a used 48" X 48" X 5" used router table

    the problem i have with the servos on it are that i can't read any of the info on the specifications sticker. so i know nothing about them, other than that they are DC brushed.

    i looked up the Gecko G320, and they are outside of my price range for now. i may have to use a cheap Chinese driver, and upgrade later.

    how do DC brushed servos take a "step" without coasting past? also, how do they hold position?

    ~Travis
    Techno Isel Gantry III (?) base machine. EMC/LinuxCNC controller.
    about 48 X 48 X 5 inch working, Makita RF1101

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by travis_farmer View Post
    the problem i have with the servos on it are that i can't read any of the info on the specifications sticker. so i know nothing about them, other than that they are DC brushed.

    i looked up the Gecko G320, and they are outside of my price range for now. i may have to use a cheap Chinese driver, and upgrade later.

    how do DC brushed servos take a "step" without coasting past? also, how do they hold position?

    ~Travis
    Only things I foresee is that the steppers may not mount to the servo mounts, and their shafts to the couplings. So by the time you buy new couplings and motor mounts, you could have just gotten the three drives.

  11. #11
    Community Moderator ger21's Avatar
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    Re: bought a used 48" X 48" X 5" used router table

    how do DC brushed servos take a "step" without coasting past? also, how do they hold position?
    They have encoders on them. The encoder tells the drive where the shaft is, and the drive holds it there.
    Gerry

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    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

  12. #12
    Community Moderator Jim Dawson's Avatar
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    Re: bought a used 48" X 48" X 5" used router table

    We can probably help figure out what the motor specifications are, should be pretty easy to figure out. It looks like Techno/Ise may still be in business, with a US phone #. At least the web site mostly works with a few broken links.

    Brushed DC Servos don't really take a step, rather they are told by the controller to rotate at some speed, and the controller keeps track of the position by encoder counts. When the commanded position, in encoder counts, is reached the motor is locked in position by the controller/drive. BTW, this is not a totally correct explanation of how it works but close enough for right now.

  13. #13

    Re: bought a used 48" X 48" X 5" used router table

    i pulled one of the servos (from on the gantry itself) to take a few measurements.
    the mount holes are 47mm centers, and the shaft has a 6.32mm diameter, and 6mm at the flat.

    what pictures or measurements can i take to help get the specs of these servos?
    I have some Gecko G320 drivers in my ebay watch-list, and i can get them via PayPal Credit. but i want to make absolutely sure they will work, and that i know how to hook them up before i spend credit.

    now, regarding the spindle. all the VFDs i found require 220/240Vac, at about 18 - 20A. that is a bit more than the current service to my "CNC trailer" (old camper, in process of conversion) can handle. actually, it is the whole of the service to the trailer (L14-20 connection). if i buy/make a mount for my Makita RF1101 router, other than feed rate, what compromises would i have to make to downgrade the router? (the 5HP spindle may be up for sale... )

    there is a remote possibility of upgrading the trailer power to 220V/50A service, but that would require a lot more money.

    ~Travis
    Techno Isel Gantry III (?) base machine. EMC/LinuxCNC controller.
    about 48 X 48 X 5 inch working, Makita RF1101

  14. #14
    Community Moderator Jim Dawson's Avatar
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    Re: bought a used 48" X 48" X 5" used router table

    I'm running a Porter Cable 7518 router motor on my 4x8. Like you, I don't have enough power in my shop to run the original 10 HP spindle. The only real difference is you just have to cut a bit slower. Other than that it works just fine.

    Regarding your servos, some good pictures would help. If you have a local motor shop maybe a trip over to them would be in order. They may be able to identify the motor, and should be able to figure out the voltage, most of them are rated at 140V, but I have seen them rated at 320V. Some of the newer ones are rated at 80V. The RPM is dependant on voltage, the torque is roughly dependent on the current. A call to the router manufacturer, if they are still around, might be helpful.

    I have brushed DC servos on my mill, they are rated at 140V, they were originally running on 100V, and I am now running them on 75V and they are working just fine, I don't need 400 IPM rapids, 150 IPM is just fine. I checked the voltage to them at 100 IPM and they were only being fed 37 volts to run at that speed.

  15. #15

    Re: bought a used 48" X 48" X 5" used router table

    out of curiosity, i happened to find steppers with the correct mount, and shaft size, and 400oz/in (2.83Nm) holding torque. would those be a working fall-back, if the servos don't pan out? (also, i kinda like the sound of the steppers working...)

    I will take some detailed pictures after work of the servos.

    ~Travis
    Techno Isel Gantry III (?) base machine. EMC/LinuxCNC controller.
    about 48 X 48 X 5 inch working, Makita RF1101

  16. #16
    Community Moderator Jim Dawson's Avatar
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    Re: bought a used 48" X 48" X 5" used router table

    Don't try to buy steppers that fit the existing mounts. If you want to go with steppers, stick with standard NEMA frame stepper motors and modify the existing or build new mounts.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Dawson View Post
    Don't try to buy steppers that fit the existing mounts. If you want to go with steppers, stick with standard NEMA frame stepper motors and modify the existing or build new mounts.
    If DC brushed, they migt have NEMA size already... The pilot would be 1.5" if NEMA23 OR 24 size...

  18. #18

    Re: bought a used 48" X 48" X 5" used router table

    yes, the pilot is 1.5" on the servos, so it looks like they would work with the NEMA23 steppers.

    ~Travis
    Techno Isel Gantry III (?) base machine. EMC/LinuxCNC controller.
    about 48 X 48 X 5 inch working, Makita RF1101

  19. #19
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    Re: bought a used 48" X 48" X 5" used router table

    Quote Originally Posted by travis_farmer View Post
    yes, the pilot is 1.5" on the servos, so it looks like they would work with the NEMA23 steppers.

    ~Travis
    Good, the bolt holes should be about 1.8" (47mm) or so...

    The other thing to check is that you can find steppers with the same shaft length, so that you can recycle the same couplings.

  20. #20

    Re: bought a used 48" X 48" X 5" used router table

    bolt holes and shaft length look good

    only thing is, the stepper is 8-wire. it says it is so it can be configured bipolar, or unipolar, and gives the wire color connection chart.

    ~Travis
    Techno Isel Gantry III (?) base machine. EMC/LinuxCNC controller.
    about 48 X 48 X 5 inch working, Makita RF1101

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