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IndustryArena Forum > MetalWorking Machines > CNC "do-it-yourself" > BST automation vs dy-global eBay
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  1. #161

    Re: BST automation vs dy-global eBay

    Thanks for the valuable input, after alot of consideration and calculations I finally went for sending the slabs to a local company wich gave me a fair price on machining everything flat, including gutter, parallelism, threads etc. for around 1600$, The weight of one slab was near to 300kg wich was 50kg overweight for my mill, also the travels has several issues. I really wanted to do this myself, but there will be other parts later on in the project I can Get my mill into service on. Thanks again!


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  2. #162
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    Re: BST automation vs dy-global eBay

    Hi Lars,
    I understand.

    My first mini-mill I was able to make on a Bridgeport clone by using multiple setups for each of the larger parts. It was a challenge to get it accurate. I don't regret doing so.....I learned
    so much.

    My new build mill (about three years now) when I was getting the axis beds cast I had determined that I could spare no effort to get the axis beds as good as I could possibly make them.
    At work here, another business but operating from the same workshop, has a near new Taiwanese knee mill, a little larger than a Bridgeport. Being new its in great condition, little to no
    backlash, but its travels are 500mm in X and 210mm in Y. My axis bed are 700mm long and 250mm wide. If I were to use Allan's mill, I would have to slide the part not only only in the
    X direction but the Y direction also. I deemed that to be a 'bridge too far'

    Like you I decided to have this work done for me. It was eye-wateringly expensive, but also spectacularly good. It cost $6000NZD (about $400USD) to do all three beds, including the Tee Slots
    in the X axis..

    I did use Allan's mill for many of the smaller parts, and very useful that machine has proven over the years, but sometimes there are jobs which are just too big or too critical to do them yourself.
    I had the Tee slots in my fifth axis platter done by a tool and die company simply because ANY imperfection is those T slots was going to result in that imperfection translated into every part I ever make
    with that platter. Cost $700NZD, or about 3.5 hours (I guess)....so not cheap, but the result is micrometer perfect.....and that's what I wanted and paid for.

  3. #163
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    Re: BST automation vs dy-global eBay

    Hi,
    there is a typo in my previous post:

    It cost $6000NZD (about $400USD) to do all three beds
    Should read:
    It cost $6000NZD (about $4000USD) to do all three beds

    I lost a zero when typing.

    Craig

  4. #164

    Re: BST automation vs dy-global eBay

    Hello, little update, a lot has happened since last time, z and y main frame is machined, working on the x axis wich also require some machining and hole patterns. Also got the spindle motor, servo motors, cnc controller etc. So working on different fronts at the same time




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  5. #165
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    Re: BST automation vs dy-global eBay

    Hi,
    that is major progress, congrats.

    The frame and its machining are very expensive and time consuming. Having done what you've done the project is now well underway, maybe 3/4's of the overall effort.

    It also takes you from the category of those who want to build a machine into those who have built a machine. Sure there is still a lot of water to flow under the bridge
    until you start making chips and you can truly evaluate your machine, what you projected it would be verses what it actually is.....but you are now well on your way.

    Craig

  6. #166

    Re: BST automation vs dy-global eBay

    Thank you, Craig. I’m about to order some couplings, I have a local supplier that can sell me this ones, they are called flex coupler, will something like this work or will it flex too much will I maybe need some more rigid?


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  7. #167
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    Re: BST automation vs dy-global eBay

    Hi,
    yes they will work fine. You want and need to be sure that the 'spider', the plastic/rubber insert between the two jaws, is a firm fit or there will be a small angular movement at torque reversal.


    I cannot find the exact listing for the double diaphragm couplers that I used, but they were something like these (pictured):
    They are just cheap Chinese, and I have found a little wear in the bolts/holes retaining the diaphragms, and I want to replace them, but none-the-less have been excellent for three years and counting!

    The best of the lot, but also the most expensive, and also prone to early failure if the angular misalignment is poor is bellows type (pictured):

    Craig
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails BellowsCoupler.jpg   FlexPlateCoupler.jpg  

  8. #168

    Re: BST automation vs dy-global eBay

    Hello!

    And thanks for the tip about the couplings Joe!

    Some things have happened since last time, moving along in a slow pace, have been trying more or less successfully to learn handscraping of surfaces, pretty time-consuming and a frustrating job with mild steel imo. Soon finished with the Z-axis, have sent the spindelholder for machining now as I didnt have the opportunity myself. Also got to test-fit the spindel-motor, spindel and the tool-pneumatics.

    Have a great weekend!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails IMG_0744.jpg   IMG_0681.jpg   IMG_0392.jpg   IMG_0747.jpg  


  9. #169
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    Re: BST automation vs dy-global eBay

    Hi.

    have been trying more or less successfully to learn handscraping of surfaces, pretty time-consuming and a frustrating job with mild steel imo.
    You've learned the essential lesson of hand scraping........don't do it! Not too bad if you are already under 10um (0.01mm), but at 20um (0.02mm) it's becoming a much harder task
    and 100um (0.1mm) it's a joke.

    Thats why God invented surface grinders! If he'd intended us to scrape metals he'd have given us carbide fingernails.

    The reason its so popular with hobbyists is because they have not tried it yet. I learned from a guy whom had learned in in the British Navy. He had to scrape an area about
    'a yard square' onto which was going a steam turbine bearing block. 'Mid-Shipman Jolly will scrape said bearing block to one tenth in ship-shape and Bristol fashion'. Took him nearly three months,
    and no pissing around when you are being paid to do it in the Queens service...so help you God. He was good at it, but his real talent, also a Navy thing, was how to
    drink rum. He'd put me under the table every time!! He's been dead for thirty years now, and I still miss his wit, and he was a cunning old bastard on a sailboat!

    Craig

  10. #170
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    Re: BST automation vs dy-global eBay

    Hi,
    Martin, the rum drinker was Vice Commodore while Peter, the Commodore, favoured gin, but Ces, the Patron, really liked whiskey. It was something of an 'equal opportunity club', I
    liked what I can remember of it.

    Craig

  11. #171

    Re: BST automation vs dy-global eBay

    Hello!

    Yes, Im built in a way that I need to experience it for myself to make my own opinion about it, if I was just to listen to others with more experience It would have saved me from alot of frustration :P

    I just got around to do a little youtube-clip on my new channel with some of the progress up until now. Check it out if you want.


  12. #172
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    Re: BST automation vs dy-global eBay

    Hi,
    do you strictly need a counterweight?

    If I recall correctly the pitch of the Z axis ballscrew of your machine is 5mm?? If that is the case then 1Nm applied will hold 125kg aloft. Thus if your Z axis is 250kg
    it would require 2Nm continuous from the servo to hold it aloft. A 2kW servo rated at 3000rpm has a rated torque of 9.55Nm. With such a servo only 20% of its available rated torque
    would be required to hold the Z axis aloft, with the remaining 7.55Nm available to accelerate the axis and provide thrust. That is hugely, in fact overly, sufficient.

    With my new spindle in place my Z axis weighs about 60kg. The Z axis has a ballscrew of 5mm pitch and so the servo, 750W 2.4Nm (S1), is exerting 0.5Nm or 20% of its rated torque
    to hold the axis up. It scarcely notices it. Even when I get around to casting a new headstock the Z axis will still be under 125kg, and so my existing servo will handle that easy without a counterweight.
    There are lots of things I want, even need to do to my machine......a counterweight is not one of them.

    Craig

  13. #173

    BST automation vs dy-global eBay

    I also have a 750w servo (with brake) om the z-avis, and when the spindle weighs in shy of 250kg no counterweight will be in borderland after what I have concluded. Also I like the «clockwork» design it adds to the whole project, + I also get to use my cnc plasma


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  14. #174

    Re: BST automation vs dy-global eBay

    New updates on the build!


  15. #175

    Re: BST automation vs dy-global eBay

    Hello guys!

    A little update on the build, getting closer to get the axes moving now, been looking forward to this, just need to get some parameters right regarding to the bus system, adressing etc. This is just a quick setup for testing, will clean up cables and everything in the next step.

    Just finished working on the counterbalance system, also finished the x-axis.

    My first job would be skimming of the face of the milling table with a flycutter to get it aligned paralell to the spindle.

    Im currently looking for a granite precision square so I can get the measurements for the machine, x/y/z axes alignement.

    I know its alot of different ways of doing this, but with this square its quite fast and its a redundant setup that I can use if im suspecting any deviation.

    What do you think of something like this?

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/35442555538...Bk9SR-7h55qEZQ

    Hope all doing good!

  16. #176
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    Re: BST automation vs dy-global eBay

    Hi,
    granite squares are on the one hand essential, and on the other hand absolutely f****ing usless!

    I too needed a square to set my machine and being a perfectionist, or wannabe perfectionist, I bought a granite angle from Precision Granite in the US, and a Laboratory grade 'AA' one at that.
    Its way WAY more precise than I can ever use.....but that's what you get if you are afflicted by 'perfectionism'. Funnily enough despite me getting it nearly ten years ago I see the price is remarkably similar to what I paid
    fo it, the screen shot is the current price list from Precision Granite, $457USD. I got this particular angle, not because it was the best for what I wanted but rather it was the best I could afford.
    The same price list covers Trisquares, and the cheapest 'AA' 3 Face Trisquare of 9"x12"x3" is $1338USD. I didn't get it because I could not afford it then, and still cannot afford it now.

    https://www.precisiongraniteusa.com/

    I have no reason to doubt the Shars Trisquare you listed, it is almost certainly Chinese made, but well........granite is granite, even the Chinese can't stuff that up!

    The real issue is that even if you get the Shars Trisquare for $285, whats the bet you'll use it once or twice and then never again.

    That is exactly the same problem I have, I've used it four times in ten years. At this rate I'll be four million and three years old before I wear it out!!
    It is the biggest waste of money I think I've ever done. Its not so much that I don't need it, or even use it for what its made for, but I just use it so little.

    To be honest I would not buy granite again. What I would buy, and in fact have bought is a cast iron angle plate. Its probably a long shot that you can find an 'AA' or even an 'A' grade
    but there are plenty of 'B' grade ones around. Before you quibble, I want to ask you do you seriously think you could measure or tell the difference between 'AA', 'A' or 'B' grade? I sure as hell
    can't. If I could get my machine to 'B' grade throughout I'd be more than happy. To think that I can get it to 'A' or 'AA' grade it an absolute joke.

    The advantage of a cast iron angle it that you can use it for work holding and setups, they are worth their weight in gold.

    As it turn out a good quality cast iron angle (or steel) of a big steel 4x5x6 block or similar might actually be more the a granite Trisquare but you'll get continued use out of it
    whereas with granite you will not.

    https://www.shars.com/precision-stee...te-4-6-6-1-1-4
    https://www.shars.com/468-precision-block

    In fact I will offer you my granite angle (as pictured), used four times from new, current list price $457USD, for the same price as the Shar Trisquare you listed, ie $285USD. Shipping from New Zealand to Norway might
    be a hurdle too far....but if your interested let me know. I get so little use from my granite angle that if someone wants to buy it, even at a steep discount, I'd probably accept, so at least I could use that money for
    something else that I want and most importantly use.

    Craig

  17. #177

    Re: BST automation vs dy-global eBay

    Good inputs, I already invested in a 400x400x100 granite surface plate, not as big as the one you got for the job you did for your friend, but as big as I had the free space for - and at the same time do the job I needed it to do, its already beeing converted to a really expensive shelf to store useless things on

    Im really interested in your square, for my project I could see more use of it than you have had the last 10 years, so maybe it could be a win/win situation for us. Would you care to calculate the freight to Norway? Ive sent you the information you need on the address.

  18. #178
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    Re: BST automation vs dy-global eBay

    Hi,
    will do, but might be a day or two. Woke up this morning and can scarcely move........bad back! Don't even know why......it was certainly not sex, in fact I'm not even sure
    I was even thinking about sex!

    Craig

  19. #179
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    Re: BST automation vs dy-global eBay

    Hi,
    have PM'd bank account etc. PM would not accept photos, so I'll post them here.

    Craig

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