[Suisse]

Hi Everyone,

I'm looking at getting a little Citizen to do mainly stainless, but also some brass.

I'm planning on using the Ugima SMQ material for the stainless, but I'm not sure what to do with the brass. We currently buy brass to a spec of +/- 0.008. The feedback I'm getting is that tolerances for commercially available brass generally fall in this range.

What tolerances do you guys find in your brass?

If its this high I can't imagine running it with standard collets - Has anyone used the Citizen Adaptive Collet system?

Thanks,
Suisse

[bl409]

I have used the SMQ stainless for several years in my citizens and I think it is the best stainless on the market. We also run some brass, as well as copper and bronze thru my citizens and have had good results with standard cold finished bars. If tolerance are very tight you may need to go to ground bar but for most of the jobs we run the cold finished bars works just as well.
BL

[yoopertool]

I have not run the adaptive collet system for the Citizens, but I highly doubt that they are meant to handle a huge amount of variation in a bar. When you get a bar tolerance of +-.008, usually that doesnt mean that an individual bar will have that much variation in it. as long as the bar has less than +-.001 in it you could probably use the adaptive system, but I think that would be about the max. You would be doing yourself a favor to just pay a bit more and have it centerless ground. It will give you a better part and less hassle. Thats just my opinion though. Good luck!

[MikeMc]

When we have to turn a tighter tolerance in brass, we buy Swiss Quality brass. Farmers Copper has it in many sizes.

[SwissType1]

I'm pretty sure the adaptive GB system can accommodate +/- .004" variation in the bar stock.

[Suisse]

Thanks for all the good information. I'm going to give Farmers a call.

Best Regards,
Suisse

[kwmkoester]

I've sold and installed many Citizen Adaptive GB systems and they work very well, so much so, that most of the buyers retrofit other machines very quickly after realizing the benefits. If you have the choice of running ground and polished in the standard rotary GB system, then run the ground and polished. The GB's for the adaptive system are almost twice as expensive as standard and do not come in carbide, but, they come in many different materials and configurations and new manufacturing processes by all the major collet/gb manufacturers are being developed. I'm sure it won't be long before the adaptive system's gb's are closer in price and durability to what we are all used to. As far as what it can handle, basically a range of .008, the reason for this is the headstock collet, it only has a range of .008, otherwise the GB unit has more range than a headstock collet. One more potential question, can you go back and forth from rotary to adaptive? Yes you can, but, it's not real easy so I would try to keep it dedicated to the rotary system. It's important to note that Citizen is the only company offering this kind of range in an "adaptive" system. To sum it all up, it's a great unit if you can justify it's purchase, if you can you will not be disappointed. Good Luck.

[Suisse]

...One more potential question, can you go back and forth from rotary to adaptive? Yes you can, but, it's not real easy so I would try to keep it dedicated to the rotary system.

Thanks for the good input.

I've been told the initial installation takes about 1-2 hours - longer because of wiring - then subsequent changes between the standard and adaptive collet take just over an hour. Does this sound about right?

Jim

[kwmkoester]

Yes, it does. You just need to be cautious and careful, because, all the accuracy of the machine resides in your hands during the process. The components will go in easily and simply, if they don't seem to be going easily and simply, reverse and retry. PM me if you like and I'll give you the contact info for the place that seems to be making the best GB's for the adaptive system.