[Al_The_Man]

I am in the process of putting together a PC based CNC pendant or operator panel and I would like to get feedback as to what operators/machinists/installers preferences are as to what to include or comments on a generic CNC Panel.
Some of the initial personal thought of mine are:
1/ I know there is a tendency for as many controls as possible to be on screen, but some, I feel do not lend themselves to on screen use namely Feedrate and spindle overide switches be phyisical sw rather than on screen. Also Feed hold and Cycle start?
2/ Install handwheel box portable or leave on the panel?
3/ Comments on the usefullness of a mouse on a CNC machine?
4/ Touch screen input rather than mouse?
5/ For flexibility, I thought of using momentary or maintained push buttons that can be illuminated with easy printed transparent custom legend ability.
6/ Place a matrix of switch holes behind the front overlay that can be easily opened up for expansion addition etc.
7/ Anything a Lathe panel should have over a mill or vice versa?

Anyone having comments or suggestions they will be welcomed.
Thanks
Al

[HuFlungDung]

Generally speaking, I do not like having to "mouse about" to actually run the machine. For some reason my hands are wet or dirty when making parts! To avoid this in one of my present situations, I use a touchpad for a limited sort of cursor control, but even then, you have to have clean dry fingers to use a touchpad properly.

I don't know about touchscreens. The idea sounds good, but whether these stay nice and clear after prolonged usage in a metalworking working environment I would have to wonder about. Maybe we need an auto-handwash station at the controller

BTW, because I was trying to run my Camsoft retro with minimum external hardware, I use the keyboard function keys for many of the functions that have to do with loading programs, editing, single step, continuous mode, program abort, etc. I would like for keyboard jog to work properly, too, because I don't really love handwheels all that much, but probably the handwheel on the pendant is the most versatile, because of where you want to be standing sometimes when jogging. Handwheels are great for accurate touchup, but suck at sustained movement. I still regard the old Bandit Hi/lo keyboard jog as the best general jogging system I have ever used. Enter jog mode with a panel button, then press an axis key. The axis moves in Lo jog an initial increment of .001". If the axis key is held down, after half or 3/4 second, the axis begins to jog continuously at a steady Lo jog rate. In Hi Jog, the initial increment is .1", then Hi jog cuts in a fraction of a second later. Sorry, I had to expound on that in case you are in on the ground floor of something

I say make use of the keyboard keys as much as possible, since it is sitting there unused most of the time anyways, and keyboards are inexpensive, compared to even a single heavy duty pushbutton. BTW, I use a keyboard with a cover, not a membrane keyboard.

But, I do like real operator panels, too. Like you said, Feedhold, Cyclestart, Spindle on forward, Spindle Stop, Spindle on reverse (for lathe), Coolant on/off, EStop, Rapid override, Feedrate Override, Spindle speed Override... heck I am just describing an operator panel that Mitsubishi sells, what its got is good enough. I hate Mitsubishi's idea of a space saving keyboard, that is non-Qwerty, and where I have to press an alternate button for half the alphabet's letters.

Gosh, I feel better now. Have you considered hanging up your psychology shingle, Al?

[Al_The_Man]

The more input I get the better. I am here for you to vent.
I agree with the stress on keyboard use, especially if the Function keys can be re-assigned when switching screens. I have experience with touch screens and they stand up surprisingly well in industrial environment, They also protect the screen if it is LCD. I have been using a nice tactile keyboard from Input Technologies, pricey, but they are completely sealed by an elastomer top which is replacable if it ever wears through. They are designed for shop floor use.
More later.
thanks
Al

[Al_The_Man]

Hu, BTW I did not like the Camsoft jog joystick, I made up on screen arrow buttons for each axis dir as now Camsoft have a new command that allows the press of a screen button BUTTONSTATE that will stay ON as long as it is pressed.
Al

[vacpress]

ok. so i havent had much experience with CNC machines, except an AXYZ 48x48 router table. this device has a hardware interface which is basically an alphanumeric keypad. for some reason i havent noticed myself having unusually dirty hands when using the thing, but it is waterproof - its got a plastic membrane switch matrix.

for the machines i am building\using at home i have been using a "CommandStation" USB hardware keyboard emulator. you can setup the thing to control windows software easily. it can be found for $10.00 ! i posted links in another thread.

i have also thought about using a PS/2 keyboard PCB as a hardware interface for switches, jog wheels, etc. I posted some info about this in a file area...

as for a touchscreen. it seems to me there are plenty of protective cover products that would keep it safe in most shop enviros. i bet you could even just build a plexi box for it and out a vinyl membrane over the front.... mount it on the machine, or on a cart...

www.halted.com has a small 486dx/4 tablet with touchscreen that could have software written for it that emulates a pendant.. that could work very well, in my opinion. i got one, and unfortunately, i either broke it, or it broke...

[IJ.]

Vac: Can you repost the link here please?(or point me to the thread)

AL: Do you have an ETA ? (I know it's early days yet but as I'm a total CNC Newbie what ever I start with will be what I end up using)

[Al_The_Man]

My observations so far, I have not seen a need for overlay for touch screens, they are usually constructed of a matrix of non-visible wires between two glass sheets. I have one customer that has them on large Plasma cutters to CNC pipe benders, they are in use for 24 hrs a day and they have not been a problem now for over 8 yrs.
I was dubious until I observed this kind of history.
Al

[Al_The_Man]

IJ, What do you need exactly?
Al

[foamcutter]

IJ,
I think the command station Vacpress is referring to you can find by going to Yahoo.com click on shopping area and do a search for Commandpost and tell it you want the cheapest listed first and there are ones there for $9.95 I think plus shipping which to me was another $9.00. They are for video editing but they say you can configure them just about any way you want. I bought one so will see when it gets here. hope this helps Ron

[HillBilly]

I am not sure what handwheels Hu is used to but on a good controller you can manualy machine with the handwheel just as if you had ahold of the actual handle.

HillBilly

[HuFlungDung]

And having a hold of the actual handle is not a desirable machining method either I hate both.

[HillBilly]

There's no denying that!

[Al_The_Man]

After polling some of the local machinist's I guess the viability of the handwheel on the panel is dependent to some degree on the size of the machine, for a knee mill size, the operator can usually eyball the part and reach up and operate the HW, for Bed mills larger than 48" X axis, the portable HW allows them to go to wherever the part is and touch off the tool etc by means of the HW and record the offset or whatever.
This brings me to another feature, how many machinist's/operators use, have, or would like the TLM (Tool Length Measurement) feature implemented. This is in most controls but not always featured by the machine tool builder. What this does is allows the tool to be brought in contact with the work piece etc. the tool number is highlighted in the offset screen and a switch is operated and the tool length offset is automatically plugged in.
Al

[HuFlungDung]

Absolutely nice to have, almost a must have I would say, although I don't have this feature currently available on any of my machinery, I can certainly dream about it.

[HillBilly]

I love watching the Mazak's touch off and do the TLO (tool length offset) as much as l love watching concrete being poured!

Darek

[berin]

I was reading threw this thread. And was thinking. because I dont have my cnc machine up and running yet but its getting there. What kind of hand controls are the most useful? espeicaly if you have a larger machine. Key control as in keyboard? or wheeled control with wheeles on the axis? or a manual panal with all the wheeles at your finger tip's and maybe a foot pedel for feed rate or z axis? I also ask an other question because I have not put any research into it yet but. How often do people setup systems where they can manualy work the machine but watch a preview say on the computer before action is started?

[ESjaavik]

I am in the process of putting together a PC based CNC pendant or operator panel and I would like to get feedback as to what operators/machinists/installers preferences are as to what to include or comments on a generic CNC Panel.

I just stumbled upon this older thread. I'm not very happy with the keyboard/mouse/CRT stuff in my workshop, so also have pondered on how it can be improved. BTW, I use Linux/EMC.

Did you make a panel. If so what does it look like and what are your experiences? If not, here are my input:

Some of the initial personal thought of mine are:
1/ I know there is a tendency for as many controls as possible to be on screen, but some, I feel do not lend themselves to on screen use namely Feedrate and spindle overide switches be phyisical sw rather than on screen. Also Feed hold and Cycle start?

Physical switches for the most used functions. You always know where they are, and indeed that they are accessible and not in another window.

2/ Install handwheel box portable or leave on the panel?

Portable with a magnet and a space to put it on the panel. Cordless would be nice. Yes I know, it's a dream due to the low security.

3/ Comments on the usefullness of a mouse on a CNC machine?

Where do you run it? In my workshop it would have to be an offroad version. I use a trackball, but think it's too much of a tag game.

4/ Touch screen input rather than mouse?

Yes, better. But it would not improve the visibility of the screen in adverse lighting conditions to have it smeared with coolant.

5/ For flexibility, I thought of using momentary or maintained push buttons that can be illuminated with easy printed transparent custom legend ability.

Or some programmable buttons with legends in an inlay pocket.

[Al_The_Man]

I just stumbled upon this older thread. I'm not very happy with the keyboard/mouse/CRT stuff in my workshop, so also have pondered on how it can be improved. BTW, I use Linux/EMC.

Did you make a panel. If so what does it look like .

This is a CNC zone link where I posted some operator panels I made that included the PC inside the pendant.
http://cnczone.com/forums/showthread...operator+panel

Al