[kentavv]

Is it possible to step the Duality Lathe like the 4-th axis table? In videos I've only seen the Duality Lathe spinning or locked down. I'm just wondering if it is possible to "get by" with the Duality Lathe if the 4-axis table is also are needed.

Thank you

[howecnc]

I believe they already have that as an option. Now they need to make the new speeder into a right angle head and they could have a full mill turn.

[Freddy Bastard]

Yes, you can add that option to add 4th axis capabilitys. But... I'm really disapointed with the performance of the duality. That was my worst investment.

[kentavv]

Freddy would you please elaborate a bit on your experiences? I'm mainly only interested in the Duality Lathe as an alternative to a full CNC lathe. Do you have the 4th axis rotary table? Was that a better investment for you? Thank you.

[bobeson]

I have a duality lathe, and I've stopped using it for CNC operations. Now it's a regular mini-lathe, which is somewhat handy to have at times, since I have no other lathes. However, like Freddy, I consider my duality to have been a poor investment overall. While I did learn CNC lathe programming, and was able to produce a number of parts using the lathe, the overall experience was one of great frustration. Given that I paid about $800 more for the Duality than a similarly equipped mini lathe would sell for, I consider this purchase to have been a fairly useful hands-on training class, but I wish I had a decent CNC lathe capability at the end of it all.

I think the biggest problem stems from the utter lack of torque available from the motor, particularly at the slow speeds that anything over 1" swing requires. When using these lathes in manual mode, your are using force feedback from the handles to ride the fine line between rubbing and cutting the miniature-scale chips that the lathe is capable of cutting. When you are programming CNC toolpaths and thus chip loading in advance, if you don't know exactly where that exceedingly fine line is, you stall the motor. When the Duality lathe stalls, the spindle motor stops but the rest of the machine does not stop, so your tool then gouges your workpiece, every time. And you might break your tool, too, depending on how quickly you can hit the e-stop. Small parts made from soft materials like brass or aluminum can be cut, no doubt about it, but I'd much rather use a real lathe.

[Greg Riach]

Thanks Freddy and bobeson I was seriously considering one but wanted to get some hands-on experiences before I committed to buy one.

Greg

[LENS_CAD]

I agree that the lack of power of the duality lathe limits it. Perhaps a better motor could be installed.

I did some production runs of several hundred 1/4" dia 304 stainless steel parts which were quite sucessful. I have also cut mild steel of 1-1/2" dia. I found the key is to make many light cuts, .005 to .010 deep.

[davidperry3]

I found it just was not rigid enough (on top of not enough power) I never could get a good finish on 1018 steel and ended up finding a way to do those parts on the mill itself. It did teach me but what it taught me was to find a way to do it on the mill. I have never bothered with it in manual mode. I do like the basic concept and think Tormach could make an inhouse design that would be very useful.

[Freddy Bastard]

Yes, rigidity and tork was a very big concern. Mounting and installing the lathe on the table, setup the tool, ... is time consuming. If you do a lot of turning, it's not too bad but just for a couple of parts it's not worth the time to install it.

One big disapointment is the way the spindle is controlled. When I bought the duality I was sure the spindle was controlled by Mach3. It's really not the case. You just see at what speed you're turning but you control it directly on the lathe. Overall, I think the duality don't reflect the others products of Tormach (I really like what Tormach is doing).

If you have some CNC turning to do, I think you should use your Tormach as a inversed lathe (put the part in the spindle and put the tool on the table). I've had a lot more success this way!!!

I have the 4th axis (8 inch). It's very good. I've done a lot of parts on it and the results are awesome for the price...

[Don Clement]

I didn't go with the duality lathe because of lacking a 5C collet nose. 5C collet is something Hardinge (Cataract) pioneered for lathe small parts production and IMO an essential for small CNC (or manual) lathe. BTW I use 5C collets on my Tormach mill, 8" RT, and manual lathe for limited production of small parts. Here is a photo of just such a 5C fixture on my Tormach mill: http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i1...hInEndmill.jpg
Note the 1/16" Endmill. I could have really used the Speeder here cutting a keyway slot on a 3/8" diameter Turcite X shaft :-(


Now if Tormach would offer a 12x36 or 13x40 CNC lathe or conversion… nudge nudge... know what I mean... Say no more...

Don

[300sniper]

Now if Tormach would offer a 12x36 or 13x40 CNC lathe or conversion… nudge nudge... know what I mean... Say no more...

Don

if tormach had a cnc conversion that would work on my 13x40 lathe and made with the same quality as the 1100, i would order it today.

looking for the parts to do a conversion is a bit overwhelming to someone not yet familiar with conversions. i don't even know where to start.

[Don Clement]

if tormach had a cnc conversion that would work on my 13x40 lathe and made with the same quality as the 1100, i would order it today.

looking for the parts to do a conversion is a bit overwhelming to someone not yet familiar with conversions. I don't even know where to start.

Me too I would order today if Tormach offered a CNC lathe conversion kit. Microkinetics makes a conversion kit for my 12x36 lathe. http://www.microkinetics.com/conv_kits/index.htm
I don't know if they make one for a 13x40.

Don

[MichaelHenry]

Now if Tormach would offer a 12x36 or 13x40 CNC lathe or conversion… nudge nudge... know what I mean... Say no more...

I sure hope that they are working on one right now. I'd almost certainly order one right now if they were available and they were priced comparably to the mill.

Mike

[flick]

I sure hope that they are working on one right now.

I was told over a year ago that they were in the "early stages of development". They seem to like the form and features of the OmniTurn, so look for the Tormach to have some similarities.

[davidperry3]

Count me in too! If Tormach offered a lathe able to do the same things the 1100 does (power and size) I would but it. I think Tormach needs a mill and lathe out there then work on the side projects like ATC and so on. Everybody sooner or later needs a mill AND a lathe.

[flick]

I think Tormach needs a mill and lathe out there then work on the side projects like ATC and so on

+1!

They seem to think that a CNC lathe is a different beast than a CNC mill - that the control adds versatility to the mill, but only productivity to the lathe. Therefore, if you want a good companion lathe to the PCNC1100 (which is intended for small volume) you should just get a manual.

In reality a CNC lathe isn't just for production. Many things are much faster to do on a CNC lathe than a manual, even if there's only one to produce, and with only a few tools a CNC lathe can produce geometry that would require a truckload of tooling, accessories and fixturing to produce with a manual.

[MichaelHenry]

Well, just so long as Tormach doesn't put out a product like the Smithy CNC lathe. Based on the very limited conversations on the Smithy forum, that lathe sounded pretty unsatisfactory.

Mike

[300sniper]

+1!

They seem to think that a CNC lathe is a different beast than a CNC mill - that the control adds versatility to the mill, but only productivity to the lathe. Therefore, if you want a good companion lathe to the PCNC1100 (which is intended for small volume) you should just get a manual.

In reality a CNC lathe isn't just for production. Many things are much faster to do on a CNC lathe than a manual, even if there's only one to produce, and with only a few tools a CNC lathe can produce geometry that would require a truckload of tooling, accessories and fixturing to produce with a manual.

almost everything i do on a lathe can and is done on a manual. even though i don't do production, certain things are slow and could be improved considerably. the threading cycles alone on a cnc lathe would make it worth it to me.

[flick]

Right! Doing coarse threads up to a shoulder is always slow, nerve-wracking or both. radii need a different tool for each size, and large ones chatter, so a radius fixture becomes necessary. If there is more than one or two angles on a piece it means messing about with the taper attachment and/or wrenching on the compound rest. And there's no power feeds on the compound rest, so getting a good finish is an art... etc, etc, etc.

Point being that although a CNC lathe doesn't make impossible things possible the way a CNC mill does (think surfacing with a ballnose) it makes really difficult or impractical things quick and easy, which is virtually the same difference in the real world.

[flick]

Anywho, that's enough hijacking for me... back to the OP's question: I've got an 8 inch 4th and it works well. If it's still shipping with the round bottom clamps, throw them out. They'll peen your table surface. Use normal strap clamps and step blocks or, better yet, machine slots directly in the base like I did. On the back side you can tap some holes and mount an angle plate for extra stability.

Without ever having used the duality, I'd say it's only good for tickling aluminum micro parts.