[CNCMAN172]

The K2-CNC setup appears to be using two custom PC boards as breakout boards for the KFLOP. The KFLOP board appears to be the last board on the stack closest to the power supply. You might need to take the stack carefully apart take a close photo of each board and then put the unit back together. Did they also provide you a schematic for the control box or the entire machine? My guess is the relay that turns on the spindle fan is on one of those two breakout boards in the stack. When you using Kmotion.exe to toggle bit 13 could you hear a relay clicking? The vast majority of your machine is working so do not get too concerned that you have major issue, I am certain this can be fixed without a huge amount of effort.

Russ

[CNCMAN172]

Imaginer,

After spending some more time looking at the C code for your machine pressing the enable button on your control is what turns on the spindle fan. You can see this by looking at the code in events.h. The function name is cbChkEnableSw(), if the enable button is held down for more than 1/2 second the drives become enabled and the spindle fan should start spinning. Give this a test and let me know what happens.

Russ

[Imaginer]

I have been doing such throughout the diagnosis. That is usually how I turn on the K2MC box to running status, for the Kmotion software to recognize the axis to green status from yellow status. In the past the fan would turn on as you noticed, but now the fan won't turn on.

I have yet to take apart the PCB sandwich to really start probing. That is something on my to do list as of now. I am going to try and have all three boards in a flat orientation for troubleshooting when I have the chance.

[CNCMAN172]

OK, yeah a few pictures of the boards will help determine where the relay is located and what else might be involved.
Russ

[Imaginer]

Attachment 284708Attachment 284710Attachment 284712
Here is what I am making out upon looking a bit further. The two heat shrunk boards maybe something to investigate?

[CNCMAN172]

Thanks for the pictures. Is there anyway you can take a few pictures of the blue breakout board that are closer. I can't make out the part numbers on the ICs, but I am suspect that Q1 to Q5 are transistors turn items on/off. Also if you can detail where the fan line come into this breakout board that would be helpful. Thanks I can review this later this evening after dinner.

Russ

[CNCMAN172]

The four smaller blue board look like they might be driver boards. Is you machine equipped with stepper motors? A close picture of one of the four blue boards can confirm this theory.

Russ

[Imaginer]

Here is the front of the board, close up. These are one part of the Servo driven system as you pointed out, part of the feedback process. I don't think any of the four has any to do with the lack of signal/power to the spindle fan, but the K2CNC motherboard maybe, since all the green header connectors are attached to the board, and fed to the panel that the board rests on.

Edit:
Two more pictures of the breakout main board.

[CNCMAN172]

Imaginer,

From all the pictures you have provided here is what you have for your machine.

The round transformer is part of the power supply, which feeds AC power into the Square Full bridge rectifier to turn the AC voltage into DC voltage. The Green plug that goes from the Full Bridge rectifier and goes to the breakout board in pins VIN & Ground. That voltage will probably be between 36VDC and 48VDC. The breakout board has several parts. There are four smaller blue boards which mount on top these are all DC brush-less servo drivers which control the servo motors. The breakout board is actually also part of the overall power supply. The large capacitors on that board are part of the filtering system which removes AC ripple from the DC power. There are also some DC/DC units on the board that convert the higher DC voltage to lower DC voltages.

Some of the items I can tell from the pictures:
There is a black & Red wire coming from J20 this appears to go to a heat shrink bundle but you probably want to measure the voltage as it enters the board.

J34 is labeled 24VDC on the board and have a cable attached verify if you actually have 24V on that cable as it enters the board, my guess that 24V power is used for the FAN. I can tell which wires go to the spindle fan as I can't see everything.

Near J26 there are two red wires and a black wire these appear to go to another heat shrink bundle hard to tell from the photos what that board is being used for without a closer view.

There is a White plug with four wires (Black,Black,White,Red) this is just to the right of J28, I would assume the two blacks are the ground/negative side of the line but I would expect two different voltages from black to White, and from black to Red, measure these both.

You need to trace the wires from the spindle fan all the way to the board and highlight where they go the entire way. That will help me pinpoint your issue. Another check would be to measure the voltage at the FAN, first across the two leads to ensure the fan is not bad. If you have 24 volts and the fan is not spinning you have a bad fan. Then also check from the Positive side of the fan and put the negative side of the meter on the board on the black lead of the green connector where the main power comes to the breakout board. Normally, on designs where power is switch on something like a FAN they break the negative side and could be using a power transistor to enable the fan.

Another test is if you have 24 volts on J34, you could disconnect the wires to the fan at the spindle and connect two wires to the fan to ensure it is working correctly.

If all else fails, you can have the board repaired. I do these kind of repairs, depending on where you located.

Hope this helps.

Russ

[Imaginer]

I have thought of testing power reach to the fan at the spindle, but the way it is mounted, I would have to dismount the entire heavy spindle, along with the air hoses from the air pressure regulator, due to the screws that secure the cover being obscured by the gantry bracket the whole entire ELTE spindle is secured to. I am trying to trace the fan wire though, as that and the DB9 connector wire also junctions to the ELTE spindle box. I don't think it is impossible for me to locate which one is providing the power to the fan, or to the spindle controller to let know that there is power for the fan to operate, thus allowing the commands to be fed to the spindle at the circuit board at the spindle box.

Will see if I can verify 24V from the board at the suggested nodes, as it would be an easier way to verify. I will let you know what I find.

What you said about the AC-DC, DC-DC, and elimination of ripple makes sense. At least I know that the four smaller blue boards are indeed operating fine. I have not disassembled the breakout main board from the metal box connector shield it is on. Once I do, and have the pictures of the.other side of the blue breakout main board, it would allow me to investigate what you have described of the FAN outlet.

One thing I did not mention before is that there is a side green button at the spindle, that allows me to empty compressed air at the spindle, when the tool chuck is not in the spindle, allowing to clear it of debris. That button doesn't operate, and it is separate from the Kmotion software or C code. I am wondering that it isn't just the fan that needs the power but also I am not able to have power to operate that aspect as well, which I can't seem to verify with the very light documented ELTE manual.

I am in the DFW area if it does get down to a needed board repair.

[CNCMAN172]

Yes I understand the spindle is heavy and difficult to access where the cables enter. My guess is the green button you mentioned is related to the fan issue. Here is why! My guess is the green button is controlling a 24 volt air actuator valve. When you press the button it allows 24 volts flow to the air actuator which allows the compressed air get to the chuck. Check the 24v pins on the break out board as it could be dead and is causing both issues. The 24 volts would be generated on the break out board in the power supply section of that board. If you can take a very close up using an iPhone which has high resolution picture I might be able to point you to pins to check.

Russ

[Imaginer]

I do not measure 24V at J34. The voltage does vary from 10mV to -10mV. Another test I have done is at J25. There is a node that is listed at 3.3V, but I do not measure such. This is with the button pressed to start the box for Kmotion, the one I have to hold down for a half second.

[CNCMAN172]

Imaginer,

Thanks for the better pictures, it is still difficult to ready the marking on the ICs on the boards. Writing these down in this fashion U13 - OPA2244PA or whatever is printed on each device can help me pin point the area of trouble. When you took your measurements for the 3.3V did you have all the boards plugged together? The 3.3V gets generated on the KFLOP board, it is on JP7-Pins 1 & 2, JP4 - Pin3, JP6 - Pin 3. CAUTION: Be extremely careful when measuring voltages to not short any pins as you could destroy the KFLOP board.

The first step is to measure the voltage at J21, where the power leads coming is say VIN and GND. There has to be voltage between those two pins as all the other power is derived from this power, as I did not see any other power supplies in your photos. There are several rows of five pins labels ( 24V, 3, 2, 1, GND ) is there 24V present between the 24V and GND pins on any of these? Another thing to check is J28 and measure between GND and 5V to ensure you have power there that must be flowing back to the KFLOP to provide the 5V power as I did not see a power cable plugged into the KFLOP.

Russ




KFLOP Connectors

[CNCMAN172]

Imaginer,

I studied all the photos again and have another test for you.

The spindle control wiring is all on one eight pin connector. ( 24V, ICL2, ICL1, N1, REL, FWD, SP, GND )

The actual Spindle FAN wire appears to me from the photos to connect to 24V and REL. The REL seems to indicate to me this is a "RELAY". The FAN is looking for the negative side, since the 24V is feeding the fan directly. If you measure between +24V and REL there would be 24V is the fan voltage is present.

The Relay in the VFD could also be involved, that relay has the FWD & DCM leads going into it but I can tell much else. The first step is to find out if you have 24VDC available from the control board.

Russ

[CNCMAN172]

Imaginer,

Look inside the access panel of the spindle. The nine pin screw connector.

The first two yellow wires are for Thermal overload.

Then you have a Blue wire should be labeled M+
Then you have a Black wire should be labeled B-

There should always be 24VDC between these two supply pins for the spindle. If you check these you will probably find you do not have 24VDC available which means it is not coming from your control board. This is a very simple check. Let me know what you find.

The other wires are 24V signal outputs to let you know the spindle is turn, and to indicate the chuck is open or closed.

Russ

[Imaginer]

Here is a picture describing the ICs on the board that I am able to find. This should give a better description of what the board has.
Attachment 285232

I believe I have measured those wires at the spindle board that you mentioned, the blue wire M+ and the black wire B-. I will double check them. Either way, I did not measure 24VDC.

[CNCMAN172]

Imaginer,

OK, some of the information you provided in this last photo with names was useful.

V7812-1000R is a DC/DC voltage regulator that converts 24VDC to 12VDC
75176B is a differential bus transceiver
LTV827 this is a two channel opto coupler
LTV846, LTV847 these are both four channel opto couplers
OPA2244PA is a dual OP AMP
ATXMEGA32A4 is a 16-bit AVR microcontroller, the brains on this breakout board
LD33 is a positive voltage regulator they come in various voltages, the three small legs on one side are GND, VOUT, VIN. You can measure the voltage from the GND pin to the others to determine what the input and output voltage is on this regulator

Some of the others that you wrote down I could not find or could not read the letters correctly. Check those as I still did not see something that would make 24VDC. Did you measure the GREEN input plug to the breakout board from the Power supply, I would think that is higher than 24VDC but it needs to be tested. Thanks

Russ

[CNCMAN172]

Here is a Word document with an annotated picture with the components identified for future reference. You might want to get the part numbers of the transistors Q1, Q2, Q3, Q4, Q5 pretty sure they are all the same number.

Did you get a chance to run any further tests? I could not figure out how to upload the Word document, let me paste in the text and photo.

Attachment 285318

K2CNC breakout board
U1,U2,U3,U4,U15 - 75176B (Differential Bus Transceiver)
U5 - ??? Marking not visible in photos
U6 - ATMEL ATXMEGA32A4 (16bit- AVR microcontroller)
U7 - ???
U8, U9, U11 - LTV827 (2 channel optocoupler)
U10 ???
U12 - 74HC14 (Hex Schmidt Trigger)
U13 - OPA2244PA (Dual OP-AMP)
U14 -LD33 (Low voltage drop positive voltage regulator (voltage unknown)
U16 - ???
U17 - V7812-1000R (DC/DC voltage converter 24VDC to 12VDC)
Devices 10,15,16 - LTV846 - (4 channel optocoupler)

Q1,Q2, Q3, Q4, Q5 ( no device name provided )


Russ

[Imaginer]

I have ran further measurements. Here is my image of them. The green numbers and nodes is what I measured. The most important one that I need to re-verify again is the yellow questionmark. I may need to use a cable so I can measure it while the boards are sandwiched. I have measured them before when they are unmounted from the box, but I did not hook up the cables to the rest of the gantry, so those numbers aren't as good.





This is a page from the ELTE spindle, listing the pin outs for the DB9 connector. I would say that this is where the 24V is supposed to be delivered, but I wasn't able to measure such at the respective pins, either at the spindle itself, from disconnecting the DB9 connector to the board, or out from the K2MC box. I am inclined to believe the problem may reside from the shrink wrapped board, but I need to verify the J43 red node, if it is outputting 24V.



This is U10, I am unable to find U7.

Also attached is the zip of all the pictures I have taken to discern. I figure you may like them as well.

https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resi...int=file%2czip

[CNCMAN172]

Please write down the numbers on the U10 part as that looks like a three terminal regulator. This could be where 24v is generated. I will examine all photos you zipped. The other voltages look good to me.

Russ