[Suisse]

Hi,

I'm bringing in a CNC swiss machine (hopefully the first of many) to replace our automatic swiss and screw machines and need some input on programming.

Given our existing 2-axis CNC programming experience, I'm fairly confident we could develop the swiss CNC programming expertise in house with enough time, and our Citizen rep has offered training and even some programming to get us started, but between the startup and the point where we have the expertise, I need a bridge.

The 5-axis Esprit package seems a bit pricey, the local rep is not especially familiar with it, and frankly with our existing (non-swiss, 2-axis) CNC-programming experience, I don't know that we need the entire feature set it provides.

Citizen WinCNC on the other hand seems to come up short. Looking at the Marucit website, WinCNC looks mostly like an editing/printing utility. I'd love to hear what else it can do.

I'm looking for something between WinCNC and Esprit. Something that will take geometry, but not necessarily entire parts, and spit out code. Even a less-expensive, less feature laden alternative to Esprit.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Suisse

[g-code_junkie]

You can also look at Citizens Cnc-Wizard or Del-Cam's Part-Maker.Cnc-wizard is not a cad/cam instead you program by selecting a process you wish to perform and then fill in the information it asks for.Part maker is a cad/cam and has done a decent job with swiss.

[ProProcess]

...
I'm looking for something between WinCNC and Esprit...

So is everyone else!!

WinCNC is a good product, when it was first introduced, it was the best, if not the only, product to get your code to and from the machine tool.
It does do more than just editing and printing, there are many utilities in place to make your coding faster...

Program templates
Engraving
Section threading
Peck drilling
Mill flats
Trig calculater
and others


For the $, WinCNC a good tool to have, even if you have other "programing" tools/software in place, I would and do recommend it!

As for the middle ground you(all of us) are searching for, making your own is about the only option at this stage of the game, though if your not famliar with C, Python or VB that is out too.

Don't know if this was much help.
Good luck.
Let us know what you decide.

[Suisse]

Thanks G-Code. This is exactly what I'm looking for.

Suisse

[g-code_junkie]

http://www.citizenmachinery.co.uk/cncwizard.htm

here is the link for the info on wizard.

[Suisse]

I noticed the US site doesn't list it. Is it available in the US? Perhaps through a different channel?

Suisse

[g-code_junkie]

I noticed the US site doesn't list it. Is it available in the US? Perhaps through a different channel?

Suisse

On the bottom of the wizard info it lists the us distributor as MCC (NJ).

[PixMan]

+1 on Partmaker. It's the best standalone CAM package there is for CNC Swiss machines.

That said, it does require training and even with that you've really got to know a few things about Swiss turn lathes to expect maximum productivity from your new machine. Take advantage of the seminars and classes that CMA hosts.

The smoothest-working package I've ever seen in a Swiss lathe is that which is included with most Tsugami machines. I'd been to Partmaker for training on their software, but unless you use it a lot it's a little slow. I can still program most stuff faster manually. The Tsugami software was pretty amazing though.

I got thrown in front of a Tsugami BW-12, which is a small 3-channel machine. I was given the software, and within a day (with zero training), I had a working program in the machine. To this day I swear I've never seen a better marriage of programming software and machine control, though Okuma IGF system is pretty good for an on-machine programming system.

[dookie2022]

I have tried Espri ,Gibbs, and Partmaker and others and found Partmaker is the only software company that are very serious with swiss machines and would have the largest working libuary of posts as you will find most other companies have examples that dont really work but only dazzle with bells and whistles.
The training was very good at partmaker in the US

[petriej]

+1 on Partmaker. I've used other software for other machines, but nothing comes as close as Partmaker for swiss. They are dedicated.

[carlos1970]

i think this forum is full of PARTMAKER sales and tech people boosting its programing abilities when in FACT the POSTS are not what you expect from buying a CAD CAM package and a post for your MACHINE.
i dont want to work on my post that is your job!!
that is why i paid 15 grand and some for it...
were not post gurus or computer programmers
if you say it works for a type machine then why are we
having issues.
what is it PARTMAKER cant get that thru its mind.
pushing the package and puting out the fires in this forum
i even think some of the people saying great things about it are
PARTMAKER tech and sales people hoping machinists out there go out and buy it.
Crazy marketing here....
A few years ago PARTMAKER had on tech magazines articles and it said it made edit free code. That is pretty impressive words..
I tell you what that is not happening. Nor has it ever. Once you buy the CAD CAM package and post you are married to it.
like a bad marriage. things dont go well
perhaps we can talk with tech people till the world ends but
were paying for it for lost time and lost productivity..
i think burger king had it right
have it your way.
PARTMAKER
the CAM THAT KNOWS
yeah like how about good code for my machines
now that would be having it my way.

[PixMan]

Hey there, calm down now. I'm a user not a Partmaker sales person or employee. It's good stuff. If you don't like it, don't use it. Would you like me to start ranting about Gibbs? Now there's a guy about who I have some stories to tell.

[carlos1970]

I apologize
but seriously after spending something like that
and posts are garbage are you serious?
robbery is what i called it
if Gibbs Cam is not that different i think they all should get
sued...
microsoft doesnt pull this BS
if you say the post work for this machine its not about customizing
its about g and m code properly working in the right plane and
shutting off G84 with a G80
and canned cycles that work with the right P and Q format
seriously afraid what it might do with more advanced stuff i might try
to make..
perhaps these CAD CAM co. s should be aware bad representation
is going to sway others to buy it.
nor i recomending it
i have generic posts from m cam that work fine with with a fanuc and label canned turning cycle fine.
and that was back in 2002 software not 2010
sorry to be so hyped about my feelings i am sure
many are fustrated about these things also..

[dookie2022]

I can see where you are coming from with Cam pakages posts as there are only about 5 companies in the world that deal with multi axis / Multi spindle of a acceptable level and yes the posts are a nightmare as some are better than some others in being correct. I have followed the progress of Cam companies since the mid 80's and it is only recently that Cam Companies are trying to get there head around these multitasking machines as the simple 2-3 axis market is flooded with many companies. The Cam companies will base there posts being correct on the amount of sales per particular machine model so they can develope the post as the money becomes available to pay for it (Fact of liife). The trouble is the potential customer gets caught up in the bells and whistles (graphics) of the slick sales pitch and usually gets a quick glance of a post that has already been checked and edited to be 95% correct.
My advice for any one purchasing this type of software is to get a part made (not there part / sit in on the process) and get the post to create the NC file and print it and then take it away and check it against what you are doing to compare as you will find out which companies really have a post or not. Inform the saleman what you are doing and give them the opitunity to have the latest post available to them.