[maxmachine]

QUOTE=Kent_Norway;

I was just having the sneaking feeling that a DSP setup would be more reliable, hence less "down time" in production since it's actually designed for one purpose - controlling the CNC? I have left the "WinTel/Microbill" setups many years ago (for general use) because of all the trouble I got trying to have a machine working as it should. I'm currently in the Apple world and have never looked back.

Kent... some years ago I purchased an "Ahha" controller for a turret punch we were converting. This was required to run under DOS because the windows overhead on the computer caused it to lose steps and hesitate a lot. Two things have happened since then.... Computers are a lot faster now, and I believe that the card that WinCNC uses has its own microprocessor and memory on it.

It is true that Windows has a very bad reputation when trying to run drivers internally from Windows. I believe that most of the modern controller softwares have addressed this problem

In stead of paying for pretty expensive SW package for controlling the CNC (I don't have my quote from WinCNC but I think it was in the $1200 range if I'm not mistaking), then buying a PC to control it, why not use the money on a DSP? Is there any drawbacks I'm not aware of ?

Yes, it is around that price, but it includes the card with its own computer on it.

I see my self having one machine where I do my design work and then either having a extra machine controlling the CNC (with MACH3 ) or just bringing the files on a USB memorystick for DSP processing. Is there anything I can't do on a DSP setup that you can do on a PC controlling the CNC (with either MACH3 or WInCNC)

Yes, lots. There are a number of "tweaks" that can be done from the computer. An example is the calibration of X, Y, and Z movement (so many steps per inch). My machine was off by 18 thousandths in one inch on all 3 axis. On a ten inch cut, that is an error of 3/16".... a serious error if you are trying to fit something together!

For those who demands the control of their CNC machine from a PC, here is a free software which ( I guess you may heard about) could do the work as well, but then on a more stable platform than WinTel/MicroBill ... http://www.linuxcnc.org/


My son is a linux fan, but as I told him, my objective is to make parts, not learn a whole new operating system. As bad as it is, I have been using it since the 80's, and I am used to it.

Mark

K[/QUOTE]

[Kent_Norway]

with the type 3 that comes with the machine, most if not all cnc machine companys send controller software with the unit, cam or file writting programs are where the $$$ start

Sorry, I don't know. I just got quoted to buy a MACH3 setup with a controller which support a 4th axis or a DSP system doing the same. That was my options. I guess the Type 3 software is not capable of supporting this?

I'll drop Taney a email and try to get this sorted, what is the differences,how and so on and I'll post back. I was just trying to get some more info before I emailed Taney, but I think it´s about time to get in touch with him again and sort out the differences.


K

[rocket67]

cabnet, a couple of days ago i was becoming very frustrated at my inability to grasp the fundamentals of V Carve Pro and could not even draw a shape in it. So i picked up my Ucancam user manual and read through part of it for the umpteenth time. It seemed to follow a logical chain of events in order to get to the end result. I then had a bit of a read of the V Carve pro help file and came to the conclusion that maybe if printed out the files i could use them as a sort of user manual. There are 119 pages in total which i have organised into 2 x 40 page presentation folders. There is so much great info in these pages and upon reading them it is clearing the fog for me.
Maybe it would be worth your while to do the same. It does not appear to be laid out in a logical sequence but it is quite easy to flick through the pages and use them as a reference. An added bonus is that you will come across many operations that you would not be aware of without them.

Existing users of V Carve Pro absolutely swear by it and say that it is easy to use. That may be so for people who are experienced with cad/cam programs, but for a computer newbie like myself i don`t think i could learn it very quickly without those help files in front of me.

We are off to Tassie for a holiday and my son has downloaded the program onto my laptop so i will study while we are away. Hopefully by the time we get back next week i will be a whole lot more advanced in my knowledge of it.

Rocket.

[cabnet636]

ohh my gosh it is 4 degrees and feels like -11 degrees in fargo nd

kustom koncepts are you OK

[cabnet636]

i have been using compenent based library programs for a while (click and drop/click and manipulate) so i do have some familiarity, my cad knowledge is limited and will probably take off now that we are here in the curve.

my method for learning this is to simply perform some function and not let it get the better of me when you get "hooked up" ( that means something completly different here in US) try running the bulls head sign tutorial

then some lettering then some trace after preping material, file its all tooling
just a process mate!!!

[lgalla]

Cabnet,
You say you are a novice.I can beat you on that one.I am manually using the Thermwood control to just cut panels like a table saw.These CAD programs drive me nuts.My first job on the router was shipping crates built of spruce ply and aspenite.A table saw would have been faster.I don't own the machine but am renting the shop after hours for little money.
Being Novice and new to the thread it has helped to be in the same boat.
BTW how much was your machine and Rockets?I searched the web and can not find a distributer.It would be interesting to compare prices.
The Thermwood was $120,000
5X10
10HpHSD spindle 6 tool station.
20Hp vacuum pump.
The shop also has Solidworks.Little use to me as Corel Draw gives me a hard time.
May have to go back to school.Iwill post some picks later if I can learn how to do it.
Good Thread guys
Larry

[cabnet636]

ia a camaster built gy bill glenn www.camaster.com bill also has other routers and is a US dealer for the same machine that rocket has, i'll let rocket tell you about his machine a while back we did some price comparisons and found most machines were within 500 to 1000.00 of each other depending on shipping then came options ie spindles vaccumms etc. what kind of shop are you in solid works is a fine program $$$$$$$$$
will post more later

[rocket67]

G`day Larry, Crikey mate - $120,000 is too much for us!

Our Excitech was $20,000 delivered.
5ft x 10ft Table, 3.5KW HSD Spindle, Bakelite Table top with Becker Vacuum Pump. Stepper motors and Delta Inverter.
We opted not to get the Auto Tool Changer for our first machine.
I can see a 2nd machine with Servo motors and ATC in our not very distant future. This one will cost about $25,000 delivered.

Maybe consider buying Ucancam software for only $150 or V Carve Pro for about $600.

Rocket.

[lgalla]

GEEZ Rocket my math is bad.I will pullout the calculater.Lets see 120,000 divided by 20,000=6.I could buy 6 Excitech for the same money.Wouldn't know where to put them.
Cabnet,I am sharing space with a company that builds flight cases.It is really over kill for the guy[the machine]He probably uses it 5hrs a week.He is happy for me to use the shop and router for $5 bucks/hr to pay the electric.Too bad I am CAD Dumb.Gotta take a crash course.BTW I build pro loudspeaker cabinets.
I want to build a machine,but the Excitec is probably cheaper than what wanted to build.Camaster says the frames are castiron if so cast iron is much better than the usual steel tube frame.
I'll hangout on your thread to see how you guys are do'n if you don't mind.
:cheers:
Larry

[Kent_Norway]

GEEZ Rocket my math is bad.I will pullout the calculater.Lets see 120,000 divided by 20,000=6.I could buy 6 Excitech for the same money.Wouldn't know where to put them.
Cabnet,I am sharing space with a company that builds flight cases.It is really over kill for the guy[the machine]He probably uses it 5hrs a week.He is happy for me to use the shop and router for $5 bucks/hr to pay the electric.Too bad I am CAD Dumb.Gotta take a crash course.BTW I build pro loudspeaker cabinets.
I want to build a machine,but the Excitec is probably cheaper than what wanted to build.Camaster says the frames are castiron if so cast iron is much better than the usual steel tube frame.
I'll hangout on your thread to see how you guys are do'n if you don't mind.
:cheers:
Larry

Currently having the last "holiday beer" before the real works starts. I have my MSc in Acoustics and planing to do loudspeaker work my self in addition to Pool Cue work. Which type of speakers do you focus on ?

K

[lgalla]

Hi Kent,
This is what I do.Sure could use a router.Everything is rabbit and dadoes done with a hand router and templates.For this type of work any ideas to a simple CAD program?
Just finishing up my Holsten dark German beer.

[rocket67]

Larry, Our table is welded steel construction. I have not measured the RHS but it would be about 3" x 2". The gantry is cast Aluminium as far as i know. But it is super heavy and very sturdy.

If you are interested in these machines just send taney an Email and he will probably send you the prices.

[email protected] or [email protected]

I will think about all you guys while i am downing a whole lot of "Crownies" over the next few days.

( Look at Ucancam Software. $150 and appears easy to use )

Rocket.

[cabnet636]

i am real happy with my relationship with camaster, kieth g (another camaster owner near me) was who i visited when i was searching for the machine in the us, it was seeing how satisfied he was that lead me to go camaster as soon as i had the opportunity to. i build a lot of things but one of our strong points is interiors for home theaters so we mess with a lot of sound deadning and such,

i have landed a job to produce signs for an apartment complex and i had the machine just a few days when it came in. there are a lot of ways to make money with these things and while i have had some machines buy themselves in just one job i feel this one will pay off quick!!

rocket don't get too sunburnt and keep the computer on. do you have wifi in aus, or over the cell network we have online axcess just about any where now.

larry how are you cutting or are you just cutting by jogging man you could learn a simple cam program for part nesting for as little as 250.00 and program your parts thermwood provides the software for thier machine FREE!!!!

http://www.ecabinetsystems.com/

check it out
cabnet
www.mcgrewwoodwork.com

[Kent_Norway]

Hi Kent,
This is what I do.Sure could use a router.Everything is rabbit and dadoes done with a hand router and templates.For this type of work any ideas to a simple CAD program?
Just finishing up my Holsten dark German beer.

Bass horns, PA I guess? Had my last beer and I'll PM tomorrow. I guess you thought's on loudspeakers is out of the subject, so I'll give you my email address and we could share ideas on CNC and loudspeakers. I'm currently working on some studio monitors and some BIIIIGGG ribbon ones for personal use.

"I'll be back" as the Governater say's.

K

[cabnet636]

you could cut and machine the parts for what i see in about 7 to 20 minutes
cabnet

[lgalla]

Kent of norge.
You are correct you should PM me about speakers and welcome to do so,rather than go off topic on the thread.I will blurb here a bit related to made in China.
As you must know you live in an area of world famous speaker drivers not to mention Dynaudio,Peerless,Scanspec,Vifa etc.For the last 10 years Chinese have copied Dynaudio drivers and they....SUCKED!!!A Canadian Co.designed drivers here and moved to china selling millions of drivers which are equal to dynaudio or better at1/4 the price.If the Chinese have got it together on CNC machines we are laughing.The Canadian guy spends up to 8months in China a year to manage quality control.Hope the same is done for Excitech. OK,OK we should not bore the posters any more with our audio file interests.PM me.
Larry

[Jimmy007]

Thank´s. I´m always on the look for something new and I´m currently trying to investigate the pros and cons for the supplied SW. Do I need it at all or is it nice to have ... ?

Reading you´rs and Marks feedback on the controller issue I have to ask; have you ever tried machines with DSP control in stead of having a PC controlling the CNC machine?

I was just having the sneaking feeling that a DSP setup would be more reliable, hence less "down time" in production since it's actually designed for one purpose - controlling the CNC? I have left the "WinTel/Microbill" setups many years ago (for general use) because of all the trouble I got trying to have a machine working as it should. I'm currently in the Apple world and have never looked back.

In stead of paying for pretty expensive SW package for controlling the CNC (I don't have my quote from WinCNC but I think it was in the $1200 range if I'm not mistaking), then buying a PC to control it, why not use the money on a DSP? Is there any drawbacks I'm not aware of ?

I see my self having one machine where I do my design work and then either having a extra machine controlling the CNC (with MACH3 ) or just bringing the files on a USB memorystick for DSP processing. Is there anything I can't do on a DSP setup that you can do on a PC controlling the CNC (with either MACH3 or WInCNC)

For those who demands the control of their CNC machine from a PC, here is a free software which ( I guess you may heard about) could do the work as well, but then on a more stable platform than WinTel/MicroBill ... http://www.linuxcnc.org/
K

The DSP control on the EXITEC machines as standard does provide for some limited tweaking of paramaters in the setup menus. My limited experience has led me to believe the finer precision and flexibility offered by outboard PC based controllers to have clear advantages. One limitation you will quickly find is in setting your origin- forget getting the Z axiz so that the bit will just kiss your spoilboard- Z up and down will take it too low or high every time. Yest there is a tool sensor but that won't help where your X and Y need to be precisely set.

What the DSP does it does really well. I plug my USB stick with the programs in, select the file in menu and press GO.

I will likley go to Mach3 soon for the added flexibility

[Jimmy007]

Jim,

It would be highly highly appreciated if you have any info on this, since it would be REALLY interesting for me. Both for engraving in 3D and 3D milling of small objects.
If there is a reasonable solution I would for sure go for one of the machines

However, it is crucial for me to know the details about the height needed (Z axis) to support any type of 4th axis before I order any machine. Do you know if the DSP support any more channels/axis Jim, or do we need to scout for a external one ?

At this time I would like to thank you all for the support so far, it is highly appreciated to receive all you´re advices and experiences and I really enjoy being able to discuss the topic in a friendly environment like this :-)

It helps me feeling sure that I can have some kind help and advice, even if I order a machine all the way from China, having no dealers around here in the high North.

K

K,

In the process of modifying my machine so the DSP controller cable would actually properly connect to the control board socket I removed the DSP board from the control cabinet and it appears it may in fact have another output that you could use for your 4th axis.

On one side of the board there are four terminal blocks (with what appear to be like configuration) marked X Y Z and C. X Y & Z connect to the stepper drivers, C is spare.

You may be machining those pool cue's sooner than you think ;-).

Cheers,

Jimmy

[Jimmy007]

Kent of norge.
You are correct you should PM me about speakers and welcome to do so,rather than go off topic on the thread.I will blurb here a bit related to made in China.
As you must know you live in an area of world famous speaker drivers not to mention Dynaudio,Peerless,Scanspec,Vifa etc.For the last 10 years Chinese have copied Dynaudio drivers and they....SUCKED!!!A Canadian Co.designed drivers here and moved to china selling millions of drivers which are equal to dynaudio or better at1/4 the price.If the Chinese have got it together on CNC machines we are laughing.The Canadian guy spends up to 8months in China a year to manage quality control.Hope the same is done for Excitech. OK,OK we should not bore the posters any more with our audio file interests.PM me.
Larry

K & Larry,

Its a small world fellas.

I procured my machines to be employed in prototyping and manufacture of Loudspeakers and reflective surface finishes (bass trapping). I also design pro audio and high end consumer product from Recording Studios to high end theatre and speaker product.

Use plenty of Danish drivers- may well visit DST this year (assuming they don't make everything in china by then.

Please PM me your e-mail addys so that we may appropriately contine the alternative discussion off line.

Cheers,

Jimmy

Cheers,

Jimmy.

[ksealey]

K,

In the process of modifying my machine so the DSP controller cable would actually properly connect to the control board socket I removed the DSP board from the control cabinet and it appears it may in fact have another output that you could use for your 4th axis.

On one side of the board there are four terminal blocks (with what appear to be like configuration) marked X Y Z and C. X Y & Z connect to the stepper drivers, C is spare.

Jimmy

Hi Jimmy I am interested in your discovery. I'd love to have a 4th axis. I was told by someone that had a look at my machine (SHG 1325) that as there are 2 steppers on the Y axis there are 4 terminal blocks (X,Y,Y,Z). I don't think I would know what I was looking at if I tried to figure it out myself, when you say spare do you mean without any connections at all? By the way I just finished installing the Jimmy007 skyhook vacuum hose system today.