[lcvette]

I wanted to give back to the community and help some of you out who are running flood coolant. I have run flood now for about 5 years on the little G0704 and have tried about 3 or 4 different coolants. From rustlick, Lennox, coolmist, and now I have finally fell in love with a coolant that does everything I could ask for.

My list of complaints of bad flood coolants were the following:

1- goes bad, stinks, gets rank, growth, health issues, skin irritation
2- leaves sticky residue
3- stains parts
4- peels paint
5- rusts table, dovetails, vises
6- poor part finish
7- hard on plastics making them brittle
8- washes way oil off and mixes with it

After replacing several plastic hoses and air lines that continuously cracked while using coolmist as a flood, I decided it was time for a change. I did alot of reading and calling around and finally settled on Koolrite 2290. It's affordable at about $35/gallon concentrate with free shipping, the fact that it's available in gallon sizes is a plus for small machines with small flood sumps.

So I ordered it figuring it can't be worse than any of the others I tried before. First thing, I completely cleaned the coolant system to remove all traces of the coolmist, replaced filters etc. Then I mixed the koolrite 2290, I mixed my first batch at 9oz coolant poured into just under a gallon of water, and topped up with water, shook and Poured into my tank. Repeated 4 times for my 4 gallon capacity tank. It's a light milky amber color with a pleasant smell. Not as fun looking as the pretty green coolmist, but oh well, function over form here right!!

So I loaded up my first part post coolant switch and let her rip. First thing I noticed was how much quieter the machine was cutting. Had to double check my feeds and speeds because it was vastly different audibly. All was as programmed so it's the coolant I thought but shrugged it off. Next op was high speed deep peck drilling, usually a stringy mess.. not this time, beautiful small chips, no strings..hmm OK interesting.. down around the 2" deep mark there was no screeching on the retract.. that was nice I thought. So with drilling done, I moved on to the next op, perimeter adaptive roughing. Wow, what a difference, I actually stopped after the first 30 seconds to reprogram with a more aggressive cut because it was so smooth and a long job i figured I might save some time with a larger cutter. So I moved up to a 1/2" 3 flute 2" loc carbide endmill from online carbide (love his tooling!). Cut my op time almost in half running 45ipm with a 15% stepover, .75" doc at 5000rpm, .003" chip per tooth. Machine cut beautifully, quiet, smooth with no chatter. Impressive for this little machine with that size cutter from my experience. On to the finishing op..... Contouring at 1.5" doc.. never a pretty thing usually on such a small machine. When it completed, I opened the doors and hosed the part of and hit it with air to dry it before pulling it from the vise. I was astonished.. Never ever has this machine made such nice part finishes.. I don't mean smooth, I mean mirror finish on a side milling op especially at any depth over .5".

Pictures below.. absolutely blown away with the performance of this coolant and highly recommend it. It has been about 5 weeks now with the coolant in the tank and it is perfect, no smell or growth, it doesn't mix with tramp oil or wash it away. No skin irritation, zero rust, even when the vise was removed after 3 weeks of being bolted to the table. Amazing!! Can't say enough for this stuff, but I will let the parts speak for the performance!!

Some of these are after roughing operations which are still better than the same tools used previously for finishing passes. Blown away!! Hope this helps some of you!!

















Chris

[CL_MotoTech]

Thanks for the info, very informative indeed. And by the looks of it you are getting excellent results. For my next round of coolants I may try Koolrite.

Right now I am using EZ Kool. I purchased it because it was available in single gallon sizes and was fairly affordable, I think I paid around $50 with shipping. I don't see the gallon option available from them any more though. It makes up to 20 gallons of coolant, I mixed it to around 15:1, it recommends concentrations as high as 10:1 and as low as 20:1. Thus far, the coolant has been exceptional. No growth or bad smell (it actually smells kind of nice, no change in smell from new) after about 5 weeks of use. I do make an attempt to run my pump for at least an hour a week even if I'm not running the mill as I think movement is good for the prevention of bacteria. It cuts extremely well, it has a mild feel of lubrication even between your fingers. Chips are excellent (given good F/S). One thing I really like about it is that if I leave the chips out on the chip tray over night the chips will be dry in the morning which makes them easy to recycle. No rust or corrosion issue on my machine. No ill effect if it gets on your skin (I wouldn't recommend bathing in it, but it's nice to not have to run for the shower after touching it). All of my hoses and systems seem to be holding up well, though time will tell if that continues to be the case. Overall I'm very satisfied.

[LongRat]

Lcvette, those surfaces are sensational. They would be top shelf off any machine, but from one of these I must say I am really impressed.

[109jb]

lcvette, I agree that your finishes are really impressive. Does your machine use the stock dovetail slides or have you converted any of the axes to linear rails?

[lcvette]

Lcvette, those surfaces are sensational. They would be top shelf off any machine, but from one of these I must say I am really impressed.

LongRat,

I agree, normally I wouldn't tout a product so, but I was so impressed with the results I felt I should share it especially since I can confirm that the finishes are from just the coolant change alone and were made using the same tooling I used previously still in the same holders with no other changes, a true apples to apples comparison.

Further more, my vice which I have not yet disassembled since changing coolants and that generally required weekly maintenance to remove rust build up anywhere that couldn't be wiped down with WD after quick air blast, has not developed any rust nor has the light oil coat I applied been removed from the slide and ground ways. Very impressed with this coolant and wanted to share for those struggling to find a solution!

lcvette, I agree that your finishes are really impressive. Does your machine use the stock dovetail slides or have you converted any of the axes to linear rails?

Still on stock dovetails on all axis's. I do get slight chatter in X when the work is between the cutter and the column from the z dovetails being impossible to get adjusted properly, but that is mechanical slop and. Not a rigidity issue of the mill as if I have a really tall part which should exaggerate any rigidity issues, it actually improved the chatter because the dovetails are better fitting near the top of travel due to the column being closed up there. Same is tru towards the bottom of travel.

I feel that with the linear rail conversion, this would be solved and the machine would truly be a little dynamo for small jobs.

I have since purchased a much larger VMC and should be receiving it in the next 2-3 weeks. I think I will use it to do the Long since modeled up linear rails conversion I designed and likely use this small machine for 3d type machining work along with upgrading the ball screws to a mid grade ground and double-nutted ballscrew. I already have the linear rails on hand and simply lacked the bigger machine to complete the work on the G0704 castings. O think it will be a little firecracker after that with the big 2hp 3 phase motor and VFD.

I currently have about .001" - .002" backlash on the single nut C7's and once that is gone and the linear rails are installed, and possibly over drive the spindle 1:2 for 10k rpm, it should be awesome for 3D machining and use alot less power and less wear and tear then on the larger machine.

We shall see! Need to finish the 3 in machine to slant bed lathe conversion first though..lol


Thanks guys, and please do yourself a favor and give that coolant a try, it really is some miracle coolant!!

Chris

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[dautry]

That's some damn fine work right there. I was getting ready to order a mist coolant system. After seeing this post I might be going to flood coolant. Do you have any videos you could post with the present flood coolant? How many GPM? Thanks for the update & congrats on the VMC.

[lcvette]

The flood set up I have is so cheap to make it's ridiculous..lol

I Hodge podged it together from various others setups, Hoss, bilge pump, I used the biggest walmart had, think it was 1100gph, but I would recommend using the harbor freight sump pump instead as it flows more and provides higher pressure and is only a few bucks more with a coupon when you consider no DC power supply is required for it. Grab a heavy duty tupperware tote as the tank, need a relay to activate the sump pump (it's 110vac, so no DC power supply required), can order some blue/orange flood nozzle kits from eBay or McMaster and some flexible tube to go from the pump to the flood nozzles. I recommend grabbing a hose and sprayer handle for a wash down also. Really makes cleaning thinks up super easy and can way chips into a central location for removal from the enclosure.

I have both for and most, and I much prefer flood.

Chris

Here is an older video, don't have anything recent, but I do now have two nozzles which works great!

https://youtu.be/4n5yeJN1_oQ

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[CL_MotoTech]

Your coolant system performance is very similar to mine judging by your video. I wish I had seen that Harbor Freight pump before, seems like it may have been even better. That said, my system clears chips extremely well, so I think I am probably making enough pressure. I am using a cheapo eBay pond pump. It's rated 1600gph, cost $30. What sort of arrangement do you sue to clean chips from your coolant? I'm using passive 5 micron filter setup, seems to be working very well.

[lcvette]

Not much of one at all honestly, just some stainless steel scrunchy scrubbers (thanks Russtuff) for initial drain filtering, then I have a large half dome fine screen kitchen sifter sitting in a large funnel and I fill it with more stainless scrunchy scrubbers. Chips still get through but they are very fine. I need a better filtering system probably. I mainly machine aluminum, I could see if it were multiple materials such as steel, it could be really bad.

I think if I were starting from scratch I could make a great coolant sump tank with a nice chambered pan that allowed chips to settle in a collection pan before coolant over flowed into the main tank and it would remove a very large portion of chips that got through initial screening. Also a post pump filter would be really useful.

The other concern is tramp oil bit I use a oil only type matte that allows coolant through bit absorbs oil from the top of the coolant tank. Works very well and doesn't require changing too often and relatively inexpensive.



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[CL_MotoTech]

I also machine almost exclusively aluminum. I'm using cheapo air filter material for forced air furnaces inside my drain traps. It collects all major chips handily. Then I have two sedimentation pools which seem to do a decent enough job at removing the majority of whatever gets through the traps. Then finally the coolant runs through Puro Kleen 5 micron pond filter ($10 for 6 sq. feet) . For the pond filter I just rolled it up into a cylinder, stuck it inside a small mesh trash can, then stuffed a second of the same trash can inside of the first and the filter material. It sandwiches the filter material nicely and forces the coolant through filter material. This sits inside the main coolant tank. Gives me about 4 square feet of surface area on pond filter. I also put a filter bag over the pump, but that was really just a last resort type of thing. I don't actively filter out tramp oil, that's something I need to figure out soon.

I love how much improved my cuts are with the coolant system. Truly amazing. But I almost love being able to hose down as much. So much easier to clean up. It's glorious.

[lcvette]

That sounds like some serious filtering going on! Will have to Take a look at the pond filter material, sounds interesting! Don't have a build thread for it do you?

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[CL_MotoTech]

It's really not all that impressive, at least not in physical construction, I can assure you that. I can snap some photos if you really want to see it. It's made with plastic bins, various PVC parts and pieces, a fair amount of silicon caulk, and a hodge podge of pvc hoses and various other materials. My enclosure was built simple and cheap, but to be effective. The same was true for the coolant system. I never built an enclosure before, let alone a coolant system, so I tried not to go over board. That way down the road I can make a system that fixes any of the issues I have with my first try. That said, i'm pretty happy with it all for the price. It actually works fantastically.

[lcvette]

It's really not all that impressive, at least not in physical construction, I can assure you that. I can snap some photos if you really want to see it. It's made with plastic bins, various PVC parts and pieces, a fair amount of silicon caulk, and a hodge podge of pvc hoses and various other materials. My enclosure was built simple and cheap, but to be effective. The same was true for the coolant system. I never built an enclosure before, let alone a coolant system, so I tried not to go over board. That way down the road I can make a system that fixes any of the issues I have with my first try. That said, i'm pretty happy with it all for the price. It actually works fantastically.

Any ideas are worth sharing, my Hodge podged coolant is laughable, but it works 😁

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[dautry]

Thanks again for sharing you results. I bought the HF sump pump, heavy duty 14 gallon tote, & all the other misc items needed to complete. I'll will soon be flooded.

[lcvette]

Thanks again for sharing you results. I bought the HF sump pump, heavy duty 14 gallon tote, & all the other misc items needed to complete. I'll will soon be flooded.

Sweet!! You will love it!! Be sure to have a valve for the nozzles and I would tee off the feed line for a wash down house with sprayer handle, you will come to appreciate it tremendously for clean up. Also, I suggest two nozzles with the larger sized openings. Can be branched from a single shut o off valve with a orange push lock Y fitting for easy plumbing, two helps clear chips better than one and lubricate when the cutter is behind the rework piece.. 4 would be ideal to surround the cute edges from all four directions, but two minimum at least.

Have any pictures of your enclosure?

Chris

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[dautry]

Z axis ball screw is presently removed for maintenance. I just got the 1.5 hp motor with VFD installed. I replaced spindle bearings with angular contacts. May end up going with Nachi's if this don't work out?

Sweet!! You will love it!! Be sure to have a valve for the nozzles and I would tee off the feed line for a wash down house with sprayer handle, you will come to appreciate it tremendously for clean up. Also, I suggest two nozzles with the larger sized openings. Can be branched from a single shut o off valve with a orange push lock Y fitting for easy plumbing, two helps clear chips better than one and lubricate when the cutter is behind the rework piece.. 4 would be ideal to surround the cute edges from all four directions, but two minimum at least.

Have any pictures of your enclosure?

Chris

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[dautry]

I'm working on the front enclosure doors, they need to be taller and sealed up better for flood coolant. I'm also working on side enclosure slide ups. Similar to those found on the smaller Tormachs. I haven't had the chance to machine with the motor/belt/VFD upgrade. I can't wait, though.

[lcvette]

I'm working on the front enclosure doors, they need to be taller and sealed up better for flood coolant. I'm also working on side enclosure slide ups. Similar to those found on the smaller Tormachs. I haven't had the chance to machine with the motor/belt/VFD upgrade. I can't wait, though.

Man that is really sharp!!! The flood coolant setup looks great, you will have awesome flow and pressure for chip clearing!! I look forward to your first videos!

Do you know the max RPM the spindle will turn with the belt drive you are using?

Chris

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[dautry]

I'm not sure on what's safe for rpm/Hz for the motor? With that being said, I have had it up to 7900rpm/140hz. I will run it at 6900 rpm / 120hz. I bought the VFD off Ebay, I thought it was a Hang Yang. It ended up being a cheap knock off of a HY. It works, but it has less settings & smaller capacitors. It's kind of funny, a Chinese knock off of a Chinese knock off.

[lcvette]

I'm not sure on what's safe for rpm/Hz for the motor? With that being said, I have had it up to 7900rpm/140hz. I will run it at 6900 rpm / 120hz. I bought the VFD off Ebay, I thought it was a Hang Yang. It ended up being a cheap knock off of a HY. It works, but it has less settings & smaller capacitors. It's kind of funny, a Chinese knock off of a Chinese knock off.

Lol.. I wouldn't go past 120hz, seems to be about the max safe output the motors are good for.. it ought to rock and roll for sure!! Not sure of the tapered roller bearings will want to go that fast, but I suppose if they are rated for it it is possible, may require some really fine tuning on the preload and a really good maintenance schedule for re-greasing. Initially my bearing would get hot. During break in and I modulated rpm starting slow for a few minutes, and went up in 1000rpm increments until I maxed RPM out then came down the same way, ran them about 5 minutes in each rpm both ways, then ran it in reverse same way and then let everything cool down over night.. I reran the test and they didn't get as warm, I pulled it down cleaned and regressed and set the preload again and they rarely get overly warm anymore. Smooth and quiet now too. Not sure if I broke then on correctly or not. Bit they seem happy up to 5400rpm which is my max with a 1:1 pulley setup. Plenty fast for me right now. Machining time isn't my Achilles heal doing one off prototype work, it's more setup and fixture and programming. So I'm ok at 5400rpm.. the 2hp motor can spin a 1/2" endmill no problem through aluminum and doesn't take very long with adaptive strategies. I rarely have machining times longer then 20-30 minutes.

I am looking forward to your updates on this build, looking fantastic man!

Chris

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