[pugsley]

I was asked in september to help a friend of mine set up a workshop in the new year.
After going through all the legal stuff it come down to machinery needed to do the work,After looking closley at the work being done it was decided to leave the production side of the work to the shops with the production machinery and concentrate on making the masters and prototypes and we can look at production later.

After operating cnc machines for over ten years (Colchester,Okuma,Doosan,Hitachi Seiki)i got to know a few of the machinery dealers so i did the ring around and got bombarded with all the paperwork you could want and ever need,But these 2 machines stood out for us over all the asian machines.(I know you get good and bad in all)

As space is going to be an issue i was impressed with the 1 meter travel on the tm2,the fact that we are not getting the toolchanger does not worry us as most work will be 1,2,3 tools at a time and how many times have you been 50mm short on x travel.
I was just generally impressed with the tl2 good swing and spindle bore size.(Has anyone added an extra toolpost on the crossslide yet?)
As we are not running production work fast rapids,tool changes or it can do this in 5 seconds did not realy come into it.
The price is also very good on these 2 machines 48,000(Au) for the tm2 and 58,000 for the tl2(We are getting the 4 way tool post and guarding) ,the ease of programming the controls for one offs and the small footprint on these machines.
Where could you get a new cnc mill and lathe for under 100,000??

As delivery is set for early january on these machines it will be interesting to see if they live up to their expectations.

Lets here yiou views and comments.

[dfry]

The TL2 looks like a great machine with features comparable to other machines like it. As for the TM-2, the features are sub-par for the price. The rapids are soooooo slow but the problem is the spindle with only 4000 max rpm it limits you quite a bit. Here in the states Hurco VM1 VMC's are selling good and are a good value for the money. I'm not saying the TM-2 is bad but look around before commiting to any machine. Also the machine prices goes up quickly with options.

[Haas_Apps]

The TM-2 is almost $10,000 less than the Hurco VM1.

[Geof]

If you did not want the 1 meter travel I would say stretch your money to a MiniMill or Super MiniMill but I agree the 16 inches (400mm) travel is a bit limiting.

[kevh]

Hi Pugsley

Had a TM1 for a couple months now , and have found firstly the machine in general very good but a bit disappointed in the control as it is not pc based and doesnt have a cadcam system onboard (intuative is waste of space imo!!) but as soon as i linked it to onecncxr advantage (rs232) fantastic!!! (just have £350 worth of floppy drive that i dont need any more??)

As for speeds its a little slow for production work but for half the price of Hurco VM1 or Equivalent Haas VF1 and easier to fit into tight spaces.


Ps Make sure engineer seals guarding with sealant on installation!!

Cheers Kev H

[titchener]

Hi Pugsley
but as soon as i linked it to onecncxr advantage (rs232) fantastic!!!

Kevh - I'm looking hard at the OneCNC software, but $ is tight, so it has to do a lot for me to justify it.

Do you use it both for CAD and CAM or just CAM? If you are using the CAD capabilities can you comment on them?

Any other pluses and minuses of the software you could share?

Thanks,

Paul T.

[kevh]

Hi Paul

I am fairly new to the cnc milling side of things and XR but have been running my wire edm using onecnc2003 for a couple years which is mainly 2d stuff , and have found cad and cam sides excellent for both .

I have now done a couple of 3d jobs creating solids in the old wire2003pro and prog in XrAdv (can only import solids need proffesional to create) and this has also worked a treat , its taking me a bit of time to figure out the solids creation but i think this is down to me and it being an old version .

In general though XrExpress ( 2D )the starting package will transform a haas machine (imo) with perfect code , speeds and feeds , offsets in tool library , easy to use wizards , and brilliant nc manager simulation. (wheres my free upgrade onecnc??only joking paul!!)

Post back if you have any specific Qs

Cheers Kev H

[pugsley]

Thanks all,
Your comments are great to here
I use an old version of "BOBCAD 17" which is good for the basics at the moment,I have used bothe auscad98 and 2003 and found good and bad in both,2003 is better if you have it as the toolpaths are done simply by putting in the tool dia instead of drawing them in first then cutting them in 98,The latest onecnc comes with the mill at the moment so that is a bonus.

[dfry]

Haas Apps,

The base price for the TM-2 is bare bones without any options. Add the options to the tm-2 to try and match the Hurco VM-1 and the tm-2 cost more than the vm-1. Many guys look at the base price and figure it comes with what they need, a 10 tool ATC for the TM-2 is another 5600.00 added on the price then a coolant pump kit is 700.00 and so on the price stacks up quickly. All I'm saying is look around, maybe you'll find something that meets your needs better.

[pugsley]

Update.
We got our machines installed in late december and they proform well,They have limitations sure!so do all machines and if you can live with them these machines should serve anyone well.

I like the 1 meter "X" travel on the mill,But it could do with some ends on the guards other than that no real hangups just more me getting used to the controller after 14 years on fanuc controllers.

The lathe (TL2) is working well,We got the guarding and haas needs do do some more work on the guards,simple things like the chuck key hits the guards and it is hard to move in the tailstock(i will have to modify the system to move it with the saddle) are a pain.
The only real drama we had wit the tl2 was that sometimes it would just sit there and not feed in "Z" like it was waiting for a command that never arrived,No alarms would show at all.We contacted the distributer and after explaining the problem, it was decieded to upgrade the software to 6.12 and so far has fixed the problem.(anyone else had this problem??)
If you can live with slower rapids and changing tools yourself as we can both these machines should serve anyone well.

[Motivator-1]

Hi Guys,
I think I have some valuable and unbiased input on the Haas TM-2 Mill that you guys are discussing. I bought my TM-2 about 1 1/2 years ago for the purpose of doing mild production for my business. This thread might be more appropriate elsewhere, but I'll start here.
My machine:
Haas TM-2 Mill
Options:
20 tool ATC
Floppy Drive
Rigid Tap
All way & ball screw covers
All shrouds
Coolant System
And even a Programable Coolent Nozzle.
(Haas required a Waiver for this option)
We produce mainly 2.5D parts for our products, and have been able to program them all with a low cost program, Bobcad 17, 18, 20. Once the Post Processor for Bob-cad is set-up, and with some extra effort on our part, we are machining parts from nearly 400 programs that, I myself have written over the last year and a half. Before this, I had not even learned CAD software, as I am an old school Drawing board Guy. (My drawing board is now in the storage room.) I have purchased OneCNC XR2 software, but truthfully, haven't had time to figure it out since I am so much under the gun to keep getting programs out as we need them and am still programming in Bob-cad. One CNC appears to be a remarkable program for anybodys needs. I will certainly save 90% programming time when I finally get this program up and running (and figured out).
Now for issue of the TM-2's slow speed feed rate. When proofing a program from Bobcad which is not properly Simulated in Bobcad, we need to proof the program on first run in the TM-2, carefully watching Z down feeds (after a Haas simulation) for Bogus depths. Here, a slow feed rate allows you to stop a high speed plunge before you get into trouble. In other words, we are able to proof our programs at the machine by single blocking and watching those detrimental z-... moves. In any other machine, you would be drilling your table by that time. Hiring a new CNC operator is also a bit more forgiving with a more forgiving machine.
If you are competing with other shops for a similar contract, and speed is necessary in order to compete, then you will lose with the TM1 (2). In our shop, we are saving so much cost over jobbing out our CNC needs, that the slow feeds are not a factor at all. The TM-2 we have cuts perfect circles so close that we make our Swivel Bearings (Lazy Susan Type) on this machine with remarkable results. It is not a VM3 or 4, but has 40" of X travel, and has made us a success. We do have some issues with leaking coolent making a mess, but the operator has plenty of time to clean things up and mop up the floor (Since the machine is so slow).
In closing, we believe the TM machines are a great value, if you use them accordingly. You can call me anytime if you would like some direct comment. (I do not work for Haas)561-744-1290.
I have a thread that I started here about increased Spindle speeds for the TM-2 machine (6000 RPM). I am still waiting for more some answers on this subject.
Regards,
John

[Wiseco]

The only real drama we had wit the tl2 was that sometimes it would just sit there and not feed in "Z" like it was waiting for a command that never arrived,No alarms would show at all.We contacted the distributer and after explaining the problem, it was decieded to upgrade the software to 6.12 and so far has fixed the problem.(anyone else had this problem??)

Yes, it happen to me a couples of time. I will contact our Haas tech to have the 6.12 software version too. Thanx for posting this!

[Sorin Nenu]

John,
PM and I can email you on how to get 6000 rpm and 600 imp for the rapid...