[JWH]

Hello Gentlemen,

Our shop is going to be purchasing a HAAS VF3YT and we are considering the remote jog handle as an option. We currently have a HAAS VF2 and don't have a need for it. Is this something that would be useful with the bigger machine and extended Y travel?

Thanks,
JWH

[haastec]

I am sure you will get both answers to this post so I will jump in first.

I personally like having the jog handle. I don't use it all of the time, but I love having it for leaning in the machine to watch an indicator, jog a cutter up to an edge, using the probe, etc. It's just another tool to have. You can get by without it, but sure nice to have when you need it.

Good luck.

[KenFoulks]

I agree with Haastec, the new generation jog handles are extremely useful.

Here is a quote from the Haas website:

The patented Haas Enhanced Remote Jog Handle with color LCD features a 2.8" color graphic display, an 11-button keypad, a triple-knob motion-control system, and a built-in LED inspection light. You can set tool and work offsets, jog up to 9 axes, display machine position, show the current program running, and much more – all from the jog handle.

CNC | Haas Automation, Inc. | VF-3YT Options | 15747 |

[Delw]

if your buying the machine new buy it cause you might find you need it for somethign later, it may come in handy. but with a probe its not really needed as much. if you dont have a probe then I would say its a must for set-ups. especially on a yt machine
plus if you have short employees it will help
My wife uses the one on the vf2ss all the time, why I have no clue but she likes it better then the control

[Donkey Hotey]

I'm going to vote against it on that machine. We have a VF-5 (same casting family) and I have not wanted for the Remote Jog Handle once in the 9 months I've been using it. As mentioned already, we DO have probing so getting in an needing to see gnat's eyeballs doesn't happen for me.

And it's not that I don't like the option. We DID order it on our GR-712 (7x12 foot gantry router). On that machine, anybody who orders without it is crazy. You just can't run the machine without it. The tool presetter is 7 feet away. Work at the foot of the machine is 10 or more feet away.

I'd say that in a VF-6 or bigger, you'd want it. Starting on the VF-6, you've got a porch on the front of it and a lot more reach to everything.

Now I'm going to hijack your thread: why did you guys pick the 3YT? That was the machine I wanted for a short time but, after seeing the VF-5XT, this was my up-sell logic:

• The VF-3YT is just a VF-3 with the VF-5's Y-travel
• The VF-4 is just a VF-3 with the VF-5's X travel and a little more Z clearance (the spindle is mounted 4" higher)
• The VF-5/40 combines both AND offers an extended X-travel option with 10 more inches (we got it). It gives you 60"x26"x25" of travel with basically the same ergonomics as the VF-3. The cabinet is maybe 12-18" wider than the VF-3.

Every time I walk up to that machine to load it, change vises or whatever, I smile about it. It's a really, really nice size machine: not too big to where you have to crawl into it to get to your setup but not so small that you frequently run out of space or travel.

Disadvantages?
From the VF-4 and up, the spindle is mounted 4" higher. I believe this was done so you'd have extra clearance for taller setups and things like the trunnion rotaries. The downside is that if you do a lot of work down on the table, you either need extended tool holders or a 4" aluminum subplate to put in there. It's been a minor annoyance because getting my employer to cough up the money for a subplate is almost as hard as justifying the machine purchase in the first place (corporate America is just so stupid).

The other thing is when you get something that big, rapids are slower and toolchanges take longer. I don't know about how it compares with the VF-3 but, I'm sure that with more weight, the table has to accelerate more slowly.

Just wanted to share that because if you guys are already needing the envelope of a VF-3, the VF-5XT is just more of the same goodness.

Oh yeah, don't even consider ordering the machine without the Renishaw probing.

[WallyL7]

I say "get it". The new enhanced remote is awesome. I use it all the time on my VF-3SS.

BUT...

When I ordered the machine, I actually didn't get the RJH since I purchased it right around the time the new one was introduced and I didn't know about it. So, I didn't order the jog handle to get inside the machine with, since a VF-3 really isn't that big.

As soon as I found out about the new style, though, I decided to get it and I've never regretted it. I didn't need it for sticking my face into the machine necessarily, well, with the extended -Y- you have a larger machine than me, so perhaps you would...but it is really handy beyond just getting closer to the work.

I use the variable speed wheel all the time for manual style cutting and it beats the hell out of spinning the regular wheel around a million times to deck off some material or make a quick cut. You can also set "zero" positions for quick work and the LCD screen is available for compensating for an endmill, or setting a hole and quickly moving to another position...

The cool thing also is if you are in a pocket and cutting to a "zero" position, you don't even have to inch up on it. The control will pause when it hits the zero position for a couple of seconds so you can let off the control, and change direction.

[Matt@RFR]

This is one of those questions that doesn't have an answer, other than personal preference. All you're hearing are guys personal experience, which may or may not have anything to do with what you're going to be making.

Personally, I use the remote jog handle on my VF-2ss all the time (even with having the probe), but I tend to make small parts and I find it usefull to have the jog handle inside the machine while I have my face 2" away from what I'm setting up. And yes, I'm short.

[ToyMaker94566]

I got both my VF3 and VF4 with the remote hands and would recommend then for all the larger machines.

But if I may, I wish HAAS would have put a mag base on the handle so I could set it on the table and control it with one hand while I tweak my setup with the other. It takes both hands to control it against the recoil of the cabling it comes with and in my opinion sort of defeats the purpose. :boxing:

Just my 2 cents. :tired:

[Delw]

I got both my VF3 and VF4 with the remote hands and would recommend then for all the larger machines.

But if I may, I wish HAAS would have put a mag base on the handle so I could set it on the table and control it with one hand while I tweak my setup with the other. It takes both hands to control it against the recoil of the cabling it comes with and in my opinion sort of defeats the purpose. :boxing:

Just my 2 cents. :tired:

thats an easy fix
goto as fishing store and buy a RAM mount and modify it for your needs then use a t-nut to blow it to the table.
A ram mount is used to hold graphs on boats.
We use them for all kinds of stuff, never thought of using one for the hand jogger. Dont use a magnet on electronics it may mess something up.

[Delw]

crap just looked they make them for gps's in vehicles, you might not even have to modify it

[JohnJW]

What other options are you getting? I am okay without a RJH on a vf2 and I don't know if a VF3 is that much bigger where RJH becomes a necessity.

If I have priority list, I would go with probe, more memory, hsm, ethernet, and then rjh.

[JWH]

Thanks for all the replies so far.

Greg (Donkey Hotey), most of the parts we make are small but we make some that are about two feet by three feet. When we started looking at new machines we wanted one that could run these in one operation. The VF3 would still require two operations so the VF3YT seems to be the right choice for our needs.

JohnJW, we are still weighing the options but so far it looks like the chip auger, programmable coolant nozzle, Ethernet Interface and maybe remote jog handle.

I will take a closer look at the probe system.

Thanks,
Jim

[JWH]

One correction, we are going with the RS232 connection instead of the Ethernet upgrade but are looking at increasing the memory.


Jim

[double a-ron]

DON'T BUY THE MACINE WITHOUT A PROBE!!!!! The probe will make you way more money than any other option they offer. I can't even imagine my life without it.

[Donkey Hotey]

Greg (Donkey Hotey), most of the parts we make are small but we make some that are about two feet by three feet. When we started looking at new machines we wanted one that could run these in one operation. The VF3 would still require two operations so the VF3YT seems to be the right choice for our needs.

Again: you want the probing option. Something to keep in mind with that is that the tool presetter uses about 4-6" of space on one corner of your table. If that biggest part just barely fits in the 3YT envelope, you won't have room for the presetter.

And since you'll ask: no, the presetter isn't easy to just install and remove whenever you feel like it. Or I guess I should say: it's not fast to reinstall repeatably.

After installation, you're supposed to calibrate the location of the presetter and the tool probe, then you'd have to reset all the Z lengths of the tools in the changer. We keep our machines loaded with a common library of tools at all times so this would be a hassle. If you break your setup and tools after every job, it wouldn't be such a big deal (maybe an extra 10 minutes to calibrate them).

[JWH]

Most of the time we run two or three vises and sometimes a fourth axis. So room for the presetter wouldn’t be a problem. I have never used a probe like this so I looked at some videos on the internet. It looks like a useful option but for the added cost it’s going to be difficult to sell our company on the idea. I do break down the set up and tooling after almost every job which is usually about twenty to forty parts per part run. I also do a lot of one off prototypes. Could someone please elaborate on benefits of this option and how it increase productivity and pay for itself? Should I start a new thread since this one was about the remote jog handle?
Thanks,
Jim

[ToyMaker94566]

Most of the time we run two or three vises and sometimes a fourth axis. So room for the presetter wouldn’t be a problem. I have never used a probe like this so I looked at some videos on the internet. It looks like a useful option but for the added cost it’s going to be difficult to sell our company on the idea. I do break down the set up and tooling after almost every job which is usually about twenty to forty parts per part run. I also do a lot of one off prototypes. Could someone please elaborate on benefits of this option and how it increase productivity and pay for itself? Should I start a new thread since this one was about the remote jog handle?
Thanks,
Jim

If money is tight and you are trying to sell your choice to the bean counter upstairs, you don't need the remote handle, you don't need the probe, you don't need a chip conveyor, you don't need high speed machining, you don't need macros, you don’t need a 12k spindle. But if you are an efficient, talented, fast working machinist and don't wish to be limited by the equipment, these options will only make you better. I buy my machines load because I can make all those feature return dividends and just like a car, the more options you get, the better the resale down the road. Now you should have all the info you need, go sale it and git-er-dun!

[Donkey Hotey]

I do break down the set up and tooling after almost every job which is usually about twenty to forty parts per part run. I also do a lot of one off prototypes. Could someone please elaborate on benefits of this option and how it increase productivity and pay for itself?

Just do a search in this forum for RENISHAW. It's been beaten to death by every guy buying a new machine.

This was my personal rant on the subject (half-way down the page):
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/haas_m...tml#post364936

[haastec]

In addition to what Donkey Hotey had to say in the link he posted, I have also modified programs to have the probe automatically set a new X,Y, and/or Z for each part of a production run to account for parts that are slightly different. (scrap reduction)

Also, I have incorporated into the programs to check and see if a tool is broken after it finishes running. Stops machine from breaking multiple tools instead of one. This one alone has saved many, many hours of reworking parts because 2-5 tools have broken instead of just one.

Good luck with your decision.

[HelicopterJohn]

Jim,

Some options can be purchased at any time for basically the same price after the original sale like rigid tapping which only require turning on a specific code and the cost is the same no matter when you turn it on.

One important thing to remember is the Cost of the Renishaw Wireless Probe and Tool Setter is approximately $5,000 when purchased with a new machine. If you decide to purchase this later I am told it wll cost you about twice that amount.

You also get The Macros Option and the Rotation and Scaling option with the Probe Option package which I seem to remember were about $3500. If you have need for either of these options getting the probe is a no brainer.

Another satisfied Renishaw Probe user. I have a couple of videos on my website gallery that you may want to look at as it pertains to the Renishaw Wireless Probe system. Helicopter John: ABOUT

Good luck on your purchase.