[Rogue]

Hi there, sorry if this is in the wrong forum..
I am currently employed as a cnc operator and normally work on Haas/cincinnati/Fil machines with Haas or siemens controls. Our company is about to install a new 5-axis machine which is (I believe) fitted with a Heidenhain control. The rumour mill has it that this control requires a lot of training on it and the programmes are different in some way to the normal G code stuff the haas etc uses. as far as I understand , this new machine is the first to be installed in this country...can anyone shed any light on these issues regarding differences in the control/operation ?

Sorry, I can't give details on the m/c or control models.

Thanks for any help.
Rod.

[sped1111]

I used this controller for several years on a 5 axis machine. I only have experience with this and Fadal. Fadal was straight g code. But on this controller there seemed to be two types of guys, the ones that used the conversational code supplied with the controller (really easy I found I was one of these guys) and the ones that used g code. Not sure what to tell you about the g code stuff. The conversational didn't take long to learn. Hope this will help you rest easy.

[dertsap]

there is far to much button pushing to get anywhere in the controller , i worked on one for a couple months , i did not like it at all , and the language translation was terrible most stuff was in english and some of it was german , the company i worked for sold them , and i remember the foreman trying to get answers from Heidenhain support on a number of things , there is no support

[Bluesman]

Hi there, sorry if this is in the wrong forum..
I am currently employed as a cnc operator and normally work on Haas/cincinnati/Fil machines with Haas or siemens controls. Our company is about to install a new 5-axis machine which is (I believe) fitted with a Heidenhain control. The rumour mill has it that this control requires a lot of training on it and the programmes are different in some way to the normal G code stuff the haas etc uses. as far as I understand , this new machine is the first to be installed in this country...can anyone shed any light on these issues regarding differences in the control/operation ?

Sorry, I can't give details on the m/c or control models.

Thanks for any help.
Rod.

You wont like it, My personal opinion:: They are the least user freindly control you can use. They dont sell many in the us. I am not big on Eroupean CNC anyway I think Fanuc MAPPS and Oukuma have the most user freindly control. Masak is OK but they dont spooze out the G-code it is all conversation and I like to be able to see and edit the G-code to cut down on the air time.

Bluesman

[Mouldmaker]

Everybody is talking about rumours and others giving an opinion about things they have never worked on. I do not think that you can learn how to properly operate a control in a couple of months. We have our latest control, the TNC 426, since 2001 and we are still discovering new options that we did not know about.

Rogue, first of all, what type of control are you talking about? Heidenhain have at least 20 different type of controls and they are one of the most commonly used in Europe.
Heidenhain controls can be used with two different type of programming language. The normal G-code and the conversational programme. The control can be switched to the different type of language quite easily and will also translate a G-code programme into a conversational programme automatically.
When we had any type of problems on these controls, we would just send Heidenhain an e-mail and this would be answered by latest the following day.

[dertsap]

not everyone is talking about rumours , i ve worked on a number of different controllers and nothing compared to that crap , it is to much a computer interface , it is like they moulded a box aroung a computer , there is nothing simple about that controller , it was only last year i was working on one it was the latest controller available what ever number it may be , support was not there thru email or any other means we had a few problems we had to figure on our own , so you must have hit the right line , training coarse was a one day intro
i suppose it is preferencial what ever you like but personally i purposely forgot everything about those machines when i walked out of the door because i will never work on one of those again , and for as few as there are in north america , i don t think it is much worry to see one again , if you look at stats for the number and percentage of machine sales from the top ranking machines to the low , i don t even think their ranking , the only plus was the fast rapid , quite quick
i buy a ford because i like them and parts are a dime a dozen , some people like a lada

[MIKE JEFFERS]

i run a 426 on a hermle and apart from initial navigation problems its fine
learned cnc on interacts with 151/155 controls but do home stuff with g-code (turbocnc) its just a natural progression
the cam system you use will be the main problem (if your going to use it)
i use dolphin (nice and simple) and edgecam (a monster but good when you get to grips with it)
nice to know someone in scotland is still investing
mike

[Bluesman]

Everybody is talking about rumours and others giving an opinion about things they have never worked on. I do not think that you can learn how to properly operate a control in a couple of months. We have our latest control, the TNC 426, since 2001 and we are still discovering new options that we did not know about.

Rogue, first of all, what type of control are you talking about? Heidenhain have at least 20 different type of controls and they are one of the most commonly used in Europe.
Heidenhain controls can be used with two different type of programming language. The normal G-code and the conversational programme. The control can be switched to the different type of language quite easily and will also translate a G-code programme into a conversational programme automatically.
When we had any type of problems on these controls, we would just send Heidenhain an e-mail and this would be answered by latest the following day.

Rumours? Hey snot nose, I have been in this game since 78 I have worked every control known to man, Fanuc,Millacron, Hass, Fadal, Okuma, Masak, Siemens, Indromat, and the Hiemien Hinies(The Worst), The Eropean controls are NOT as user freindly sorry but its not a rumour it is my opinion base on exspierience. Now granted I think the Hienies were the first with conversational and they did pave the way. But My personal opinion they are not very freindly. Sorry, But you want good conversational By the Okuma or the Mori Mapps.

Now dont make me come back here, Bluesman

[Rogue]

Hi, I've discovered the details of the machine and control :
the machine is a Matec 30HV with travelling column (it's to be doing looong work) and the control is a HH 530TNi .

Hopefully it'll be better than some here seem to be suggesting :drowning:

Rod

[px00001]

I have always found the Heidenhain controls the easiest control for a novice to learn. The control does G-Code as well. The Conversational is very easy to learn, and most Fanuc programmers usually start with the G-Code then eventually drop it. The strength of the Heidenhain is you can do the CAM right on the control. Don't need a MasterCam guy to make a G-code program that you need to tweak.

[dertsap]

I and most Fanuc programmers usually start with the G-Code then eventually drop it. .

, drop g code , i think not , most companies can t be bother with conversational , g code is the most widely understood language

user friend it is not , look thru a few screen changes for the optional stop instead of a simple button like most everyone else builds on their machines

[gus]

If you cannot adapt to a different control, that is a personal issue. I have run Heidenhains exclusively for 14 years and they are so much easier to program it isn't even funny. They are bulletproof as well, the 20 year old ones are starting to lose their monitors, but other than that you can run them forever. Virtually Zero maintenence. Try that on a fanuc

It sounds like you walked up to one and couldn't run it in 15 minutes and went back to a pos fanuc and never went back. Do they have quirks? Absolutely. Germans write great looking manuals, compared to the Japs, who write crappy looking ones. But the Japs actually tend to put all the info in there somewhere, while the Germans like to leave stuff out. Example: GOTO. Nowhere in the tnc145 manual did it say you have to press GOTO to be at, say, line 121. You can look like you are there, it is highlighted, but it won't run the program[selected block not addressed] until you press GOTO 121. Once you know this it is obvious and never again causes you grief. But it aint in the damn book.
I can write simple 2 1/2 axis programs in less time than Mastercam takes to boot up. In conversational you can write a circle with 3 lines of code, know only the circle center and radius, round corners on the outside of a part by pressing a key, with no endpoints. This is all 20 years ago.

All heidenhains since the 151, circa 1987 have accepted g code, so if you insist on programming just like your granddaddy did, have at it.


You simply don't know what you are talking about.

[dertsap]

If you cannot adapt to a different control, that is a personal issue. It sounds like you walked up to one and couldn't run it in 15 minutes and went back to a pos fanuc and never went back. Do they have quirks? Absolutely.

You simply don't know what you are talking about.

trust me i know a whole lot more than you can ever hope to

never make asumptions , ive worked and adapted to many controllers , and at the same time if all i was to do was make circles all day i would punch a few lines of g code , i worked on them long enough to know they SUCK
sounds to me that control is probably all that YOU know ,
this is the real world buddy
if they are so good why is it they are one of the least bought machines in america , have YOU ever seen the stats
like i said before the company i worked at sold them machines along with other machines and european tooling

[garagefela]

Hi everyone,
I had started my apprenticeship using many different machines utilising G code and had no problems at all.
Started work on a particular machine that had a Heidenhain on it and nearly died, I just did not think I would get the hang of it or even like it. It didn't take very long for the penny to drop and ended up falling in love with it.

That's not to say it is better or worse than anything else out there just a personal view on it.
Cheers M

[px00001]

dertsap, you don't seem too informed about heidenhain controls. they do have an optional stop feature. it's the 4th soft key on the screen. it's labeled OFF / ON
When you have a program line which starts with "/" you can optionally turn on that line of code. If the line of code is /STOP, it's an optional stop. You can option on/off any line of code, not just the stop function.

also, you have great touch probe canned cycles with a heidenhain which don't compare to anything on a Fanuc. Most people on Fanuc have some adaptation of a Renishaw probe which no-one uses because you risk the Fanuc crushing the $7000 tool.

I have to agree with Gus about how the German's leave a lot of the neat features not in the manual, including the optional block feature. The manual is great and thick and easy to read.

[dertsap]

i may be wrong about the optional stop , but for what i do remember there was to much screen flipping to do anything ,too much a computer interface , as far as probing on fanuc , im currently doing a job with planetary carriers we have a shaft up the center , picture an upside down T , i have to probe the shaft then 3 out of 8 bores 14" bcd to uphold .0005 positional tolerance on the radius of the bcd to the center of the shaft , press cycle start and go , it works pretty slick , the only thing scary about it is once it starts to do its thing , there is no overriding it


/ blockskip fanuc samething

to each his own , i tryed it for a number of months , made it run just like im supposed to , but i hated the thing ,
some like a ford some like a chev

[px00001]

well, we are all people and are creatures of habit. i learned word processing with Lotus 123 and Wordpro. Don't care much for Microsoft Word or Excell, and I'm sure they are superioir to the Lotus stuff. I just like what I know. In regard to G-code and Fanuc, I learned on a Fanuc 3000C. I think you may be one of the few people here who will remember that control. It did do contours though....

[dertsap]

no man never worked on old stuff like that , besides i currently work on fanuc but never said i was a huge fan of theirs either , they have somethings to be desired also ,
each machine manufacturer seems to have their own idea of what way to set up the fanuc controller , which at times is outright stupid ,
i spend a lot of the day with my head in the machine and my arm reached back behind me to the controller , this is why i prefer that type of control , i know where the buttons ,dials , and possibly e stop , are without looking, the germans do have some nice fetures , but it just isnt for me

[cnctel]

I have used most of the Heidenhain controls and a few fanuc ones.
The thing which annoys me most about the fanuc controls is that the do not change with the times for example sometimes having to program without a decimal point. This is a hangup from the old days when memory was expensive.
As I own the company as well as being a programmer I know if I buy a m/c
with a heidenhain I will get every canned cycle possible thrown in.
I recently bought a 15inch chuck cnc lathe with a fanuc and was amazed to find I had to pay extra for basic line graphics.You wouldn't buy a DVD play and pay extra for a clock.

[Bubbles]

I've been running a 5 axis machine with the hiedenain control TNC530 now for about 3-4 months. To be completely honest, I enjoy using this control. The machine is jammed packed with preprogrammed operations such as circles for roughing, finishing, slots, studs, drilling, reaming, threadmilling.... u name it, its in there... just a matter of inputting the proper dimensions and such and your off and cutting!!!

I love the m118 function with the m128 funtion for showing off the machine, which enables you to rotate the table 360 degrees and have the cutter stay on the cutting path as the table spins!!!!!

With the very limited training I had on the controller (3 days to be exact), so far I have found it enjoyable!!!!