[deejayehn]

Where would I go to get the best crash course on CNC plasma?

I'm an artist that really wants to get one of these machines.

What machine is the best value for your money?

What is the best plasma cutter for your money?

Thanks ahead of time for all of your tips,



DeeJay

[blackhollowmfg]

deejayehn - You have came to the right place! I too had never even seen a CNC plasma before I decided that I wanted one. Not knowing anything about them, I went with a Torchmate 1 kit that you build yourself. They provide all the brackets and electronics (motors, signal generator, cables, etc.) and can supply you with the plasma cutter too (I use a Cutmaster 101), as well as a computer. I went from knowing squat about cnc cutting to building my machine to cutting parts in under 2 months.

If you have the skills, and want to take it on, there are several plans on this forum to build a nice table, and PLENTY of knowledgeable people here to help out with the electronics.

It comes down to how much you can spend and hw soon you need it up and running. Stick around here, you will soon become an addict!

[Mike@Torchmate]

You can check out our website and download our catalog for prices, we have everything ranging from Production based machines to a small 4'x4' table for hobbyists who are just looking to get a simple machine for artwork and such.

Our bolt together kits can be assembled in less then a day as well in case you are not comfortable with welding a table together.

Check us out at www.Torchmate.com

-Mike

[Torchhead]

For the electrically/electronic challenged builder that would like a cost effective system that INCLUDES a Digital torch Height control check out out Plazpak Package deals.

http:/www.CandCNC.com/SolutionsMenu.com

All of the wiring and electronics (including limits) are part of the package and every thing is intergrated and tested here prior to shipping. Motors plug in (they are even color coded to help). The mechanics are up to you but there are good plans available on this site.

We use and advocate the MACH3 approach. It in fact ships with our PlazPak products. It's a non-hardware based system. With over 7,000 users and excellent support from the web and from us it makes a very cost effective plasma solution. The MP1000-THC is tied into the toolpath software (MACH) and you can control the THC cutting parameters from the MP1000-THC, MACH screen or from our new 28 function Hand Controller that plugs into the front of any MP1000 series unit.

For decorative cutting (of which we do a lot) the combination of CorelDraw, DXFTool, SheetCAM and MACH3 makes for a plasma cutting solution that I will put up against packages costing many times the low total cost.

If you are from the art side, you have probably used CorelDraw but don't know how good it works as the artwork engine for plasma cutting decorative or signage projects. Join my CandCNCSupport Yahoo group and get access to free CDR Corel clipart samples for plasma. Download the DXFTool from my website and try it free for 30 days. Loads and runs inside CorelDraw 12 or X3. Get a full demo copy from Les at www.Sheetcam.com and use it to setup your plasma specific toolpaths. Help is always available from his Yahoo Group or from me since I use it daily to do plasma (and wood routing).

Tom Caudle
www.CandCNC.com

[deejayehn]

Is there a decent opportunity to make money with one of these machines?

How are you doing it?

Do you send out a direct mailer out to mailing lists?
Do you just go to trade shows?
Online catalog?

How do you market your "talent"?

Just curious...

[massajamesb]

It depends. What do you want to cut? Are you looking to sell metal art? chassis and suspension pieces? Bracketry for metal fabrication shops??
The possibilities are endless when it comes to selling your work. You just have to take the Nike express around town, and find out what people want, and figure out how to sell it to them.

There are a number of homebuilt machines on this site, and quite a few pre-built machines as well. Take a look around and gather some opinions.

[Switcher]

deejayehn,

This link might help?

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34674



.

[Perp]

For the electrically/electronic challenged builder that would like a cost effective system that INCLUDES a Digital torch Height control check out out Plazpak Package deals.

http:/www.CandCNC.com/SolutionsMenu.com

All of the wiring and electronics (including limits) are part of the package and every thing is intergrated and tested here prior to shipping. Motors plug in (they are even color coded to help). The mechanics are up to you but there are good plans available on this site.

We use and advocate the MACH3 approach. It in fact ships with our PlazPak products. It's a non-hardware based system. With over 7,000 users and excellent support from the web and from us it makes a very cost effective plasma solution. The MP1000-THC is tied into the toolpath software (MACH) and you can control the THC cutting parameters from the MP1000-THC, MACH screen or from our new 28 function Hand Controller that plugs into the front of any MP1000 series unit.

For decorative cutting (of which we do a lot) the combination of CorelDraw, DXFTool, SheetCAM and MACH3 makes for a plasma cutting solution that I will put up against packages costing many times the low total cost.

If you are from the art side, you have probably used CorelDraw but don't know how good it works as the artwork engine for plasma cutting decorative or signage projects. Join my CandCNCSupport Yahoo group and get access to free CDR Corel clipart samples for plasma. Download the DXFTool from my website and try it free for 30 days. Loads and runs inside CorelDraw 12 or X3. Get a full demo copy from Les at www.Sheetcam.com and use it to setup your plasma specific toolpaths. Help is always available from his Yahoo Group or from me since I use it daily to do plasma (and wood routing).

Tom Caudle
www.CandCNC.com

Just checked out your website for the plazpak electronics setups and i am very impressed. what is the lead time on shipping one of these (plazpak4 for dual x drive)? I plan on placing an order around the first of April.
Also I need to supply a computer, but what else do I need to complete this system and what are your recomendations on the computers specifications. It will only be used for this table and will be new.
Thanks

Doug

[Torchhead]

The average time for shipping is currently running about 3 weeks after we receive the order. Each system is built up and fully tested using the actual components we ship (drives, motors, cables, etc).

For MACH I recommend a 1.8GHZ CPU or higher and min 256M Ram. It needs to have a parallel port or an open PCI slot to add in a Parallel Port card. Needs to run XP or WIN2000. I have had good success buying the ECS motherboards from Newegg.com (the 89.00 special) and some matching DDR memory and upgrading an older ATX PC. You don't need a new HD or CD Reader and those cards still have a full communications riser with Parallel and serial plugs!

Don't spread this around but if you place an order before the end of next week for the Plazpak3 or 4, I will throw in a FREE MPG101B Hand Controller. (unadvertised special). Plugs right into the front of the MP1000-THC and gives you most of the setup and run control including being able to adjust the tip volts (cut gap) up and down while cutting and turning on/off the THC or the Anti-Dive options.

Tom Caudle
www.CandCNC.com

[Perp]

Tom, sounds great and you will be hearing from me next week!

Thanks

Doug

[Torchhead]

Is there a decent opportunity to make money with one of these machines?

How are you doing it?

Do you send out a direct mailer out to mailing lists?
Do you just go to trade shows?
Online catalog?

How do you market your "talent"?

Just curious...

Well, we make money from the steel cutting and at one time it was 100% of our income. I tell you a lot of things that do/don't work:

Don't work: Flea Markets (hard to sell a $100 cutting to person with $10 bucks in thier pocket).

Don't work: Selling precut general designs. The real money is in personalization and custom work.

Don't work: A website alone will only bring in about 20% of what you need to survive (but you still need one)

Does work:A color brochure (even if you print it yourself) helps a lot.

Does work: Find a local independant restaurant(s) and see if you can setup a display in their waiting area and put out brochures (simple 1 page with your website and phone number) in exchange for cutting them some "art" for the restaurant.

Does work: Word of mouth for local customers. Get pictures of everything you cut.

Does work: Offer finishes (powder coat) on pieces. Get setup with a local powder coat shop to do bigger stuff and learn how to do stuff less than 24" yourself.

Don't work: Smaller cuts than about 14" in size. Too much handling and labor for the preceived value.

Don't work: selling through retail gift shops.

REALLY don't work: selling through any consignment agreement.

Sorta Works: Find local gate and fence companies and provide them with a way to buy a really low cost package of samples and free catalogs. Most will look at you like you grew a third head. A couple will see the value. Have wholesale pricing or work out a commission program so they can make money.

Your decorative cutting business will be spotty and seasonal. You will do well around Christmas and poorly in the summer months (even though a lot of the exterior work is being done then)

So there you have some of the things I learned. If you already have contracts with local mfg's and fab shops that could give you job shop business or contract business, then you can build that part of the business but beware that they will beat on you ruthlessly for lower prices and you find yourself working for minumum wage (happens anyway (:_))

Like any other business on the face of the earth it's success will depend on your willingness to stick with it, but to change course when the target moves. Never quit your day job based on a promise of work or one job. Keep your overhead as low as possible the first couple of years. Be honest and straight up with your customers, but be aware they may not be the same with you.

Trust and verify

Tom Caudle
www.CandCNC.com

[deejayehn]

Well, we make money from the steel cutting and at one time it was 100% of our income. I tell you a lot of things that do/don't work:

Don't work: Flea Markets (hard to sell a $100 cutting to person with $10 bucks in thier pocket).

Don't work: Selling precut general designs. The real money is in personalization and custom work.

Don't work: A website alone will only bring in about 20% of what you need to survive (but you still need one)

Does work:A color brochure (even if you print it yourself) helps a lot.

Does work: Find a local independant restaurant(s) and see if you can setup a display in their waiting area and put out brochures (simple 1 page with your website and phone number) in exchange for cutting them some "art" for the restaurant.

Does work: Word of mouth for local customers. Get pictures of everything you cut.

Does work: Offer finishes (powder coat) on pieces. Get setup with a local powder coat shop to do bigger stuff and learn how to do stuff less than 24" yourself.

Don't work: Smaller cuts than about 14" in size. Too much handling and labor for the preceived value.

Don't work: selling through retail gift shops.

REALLY don't work: selling through any consignment agreement.

Sorta Works: Find local gate and fence companies and provide them with a way to buy a really low cost package of samples and free catalogs. Most will look at you like you grew a third head. A couple will see the value. Have wholesale pricing or work out a commission program so they can make money.

Your decorative cutting business will be spotty and seasonal. You will do well around Christmas and poorly in the summer months (even though a lot of the exterior work is being done then)

So there you have some of the things I learned. If you already have contracts with local mfg's and fab shops that could give you job shop business or contract business, then you can build that part of the business but beware that they will beat on you ruthlessly for lower prices and you find yourself working for minumum wage (happens anyway (:_))

Like any other business on the face of the earth it's success will depend on your willingness to stick with it, but to change course when the target moves. Never quit your day job based on a promise of work or one job. Keep your overhead as low as possible the first couple of years. Be honest and straight up with your customers, but be aware they may not be the same with you.

Trust and verify

Tom Caudle
www.CandCNC.com

Thank you for your tips... you must have alot of experience.

Mainly I want to do the art thing. I do have my own designs, and can easily tweak many popular designs so the designs are uniquely mine.

I suppose that if there was a dry spell, I would want to look into doing fill-in projects for income supplementation/cash flow.

I would be very interested in doing custom work for vehicles and custom bikes/choppers as well. Very interested...

Just don't know much about the cnc plasma cutter stuff... even though I went to votech/college for a year doing cad/3d cad in drafting.

Ironic how I'm coming around almost full circle after over 10 years from being away...

I was first introduced to the Plasma Cam dvd. There seems too be alot of negative press around here for it. It looks fairly impressive to me, but I do see the disadvantages of all the comments floating around this forum. The tech support will be a very important issue for me anyways.

Where do you go to learn about the software? I'm totally out of the loop on this one... What is the best software?

What is the best laptop for this type of application?

[Torchhead]

Thank you for your tips... you must have alot of experience.

Mainly I want to do the art thing. I do have my own designs, and can easily tweak many popular designs so the designs are uniquely mine.

I suppose that if there was a dry spell, I would want to look into doing fill-in projects for income supplementation/cash flow.

I would be very interested in doing custom work for vehicles and custom bikes/choppers as well. Very interested...

There are all kinds of products you can make with a plasma table. Your best money is doing custom decorative work. I get between 15 and 25/sq foot for 10 ga steel based on the finish. What you will find is that you have to try a lot of different ideas. Things YOU think will sell, sometimes don't. I tried custom hitch covers (2" receiver hitch inserts). Sold 20 to one guy and thought I was on to something. Sold about 6 more and that was it!

Just don't know much about the cnc plasma cutter stuff... even though I went to votech/college for a year doing cad/3d cad in drafting.

Won't help much except make you less fearful of computers. For decorative cutting using CAD is like driving nails with a wrench. Drawing and illustration software like CorelDraw works a lot better. It handles text (wrapping, welding, combining) and popular vector file imports for clipart. Most good clipart is not in DXF format.

Ironic how I'm coming around almost full circle after over 10 years from being away...

I was first introduced to the Plasma Cam dvd. There seems too be alot of negative press around here for it. It looks fairly impressive to me, but I do see the disadvantages of all the comments floating around this forum. The tech support will be a very important issue for me anyways.

PlasmaCam has been the entry point (mentally) for a lot of plasma builds. They are very good at marketing. Their color brochure is not about their machine as much as it is about what you can make with plasma. The biggest detractor for me is one of their main selling points: Their software and control system. It looks cool but it is also all very proprietary so you HAVE to use their software and hardware.... until death do you part. Avoid system where you get painted into a corner and have to use an one vendors proprietary (meaning the only place you can get it is from them) system.

Where do you go to learn about the software? I'm totally out of the loop on this one... What is the best software?

If you hang around here you will start seeing certain software and hardware names mentioned again and again. you will see names like: SheetCAM, BobCAD, OneCNC for the CAM (toolpath definition and g-code builders). For Control Software (supplies the signals to spin the motors) you will see a lot of mention of MACH3. MACH has over 7,000 users and one of the more active lists in Yahoo Groups.

For hardware you will see Gecko, CampbellDesigns, PMDX and hopefully my name: CandCNC

For what you want to do it's hard to beat (features AND price) the combination of CorelDraw 12 (or X3); SheetCAM (www.sheetcam.com) and MACH3 (www.machsupport.com).

I have 5 years of building, designing and using plasma and router with the above combination of software.

What is the best laptop for this type of application?

The one that stays in your house so you can send cut programs to your dedicated PC on your machine

Before you go further you need to read about plasma cutting and how incredibly dirty. smoky and nasty the process is. Even with good dust extraction it will take a toll on surrounding equipment.

[massajamesb]

Before you go further you need to read about plasma cutting and how incredibly dirty. smoky and nasty the process is. Even with good dust extraction it will take a toll on surrounding equipment.[/QUOTE]


I will second that. I have to blow out the area around my 4x4 table at least once a week, if not more. Just processing a handful of parts will turn that entire area black, and this area I speak of is about 10'x15'. Processing a whole 4x4 (half) sheet pretty much coats the whole shop with a very abrasive black dust. I love the machine, hate the mess.
Still beats hand cutting and then creating a mess with a grinder, though.

[Perp]

Before you go further you need to read about plasma cutting and how incredibly dirty. smoky and nasty the process is. Even with good dust extraction it will take a toll on surrounding equipment.

I will second that. I have to blow out the area around my 4x4 table at least once a week, if not more. Just processing a handful of parts will turn that entire area black, and this area I speak of is about 10'x15'. Processing a whole 4x4 (half) sheet pretty much coats the whole shop with a very abrasive black dust. I love the machine, hate the mess.
Still beats hand cutting and then creating a mess with a grinder, though.[/QUOTE]

Do either of you (Massa or Tom) use a water tray?

[massajamesb]

Do either of you (Massa or Tom) use a water tray?[/QUOTE]

Lol, it is on my to-do list, trust me.
I know this sounds odd, but since I got my machine rebuilt and running again a couple months or so ago, I haven't had time to do much of anything, thought the next mod I do to it will involve a water tray.

I keep telling myself, next week, next week

[Torchhead]

I have a water tray but it is 4" below the grate. Takes care of the sparks and falling pieces but does little for the smoke....oh, and that SMOKE! It's vaporized metal that floats in the air and condenses out all over the shop. It's volcanic in nature and the deposits are conductive and stick. Won't pick up completely with a shop vac and blowing it with air just spreads it some more. There have been threads of guys building water trays that hold constant level and touch the back of the metal (partually submerged). A commercial shop that cut a lot of stainless turned me on to the process using conventional plasma (Hypertherm 900). Reports are it cuts down a lot on dust and smoke. Conventional dust extraction (vacuum at the cutting tool) does little of nothing for plasma. Smoke bounces along under the material and wifts up in plumes all over the table.

I just don't think a shop environment is a place for a laptop computer. The PC at the CNC table needs to be considered a dedicated machine to that application (you are replacing a commercial controller that costs many thousands with a PC that costs hundreds). Having it be portable (unless your machine will fold up and you can tote it with you) offers no advantages. If your shop is so cramped you can't find a spot for a standard PC and keyboard/monitor then you probabaly don't have enough room to load material on a table.

A table top machine you can store in a cabinet...well maybe that is a good argument for a laptop. Even then it needs to be one that is disposible for when you snag the cord and jerk it off the table (:-)

Tom Caudle
www.CandCNC.com

[deejayehn]

"Before you go further you need to read about plasma cutting and how incredibly dirty. smoky and nasty the process is. Even with good dust extraction it will take a toll on surrounding equipment."


"I will second that. I have to blow out the area around my 4x4 table at least once a week, if not more. Just processing a handful of parts will turn that entire area black, and this area I speak of is about 10'x15'. Processing a whole 4x4 (half) sheet pretty much coats the whole shop with a very abrasive black dust. I love the machine, hate the mess.
Still beats hand cutting and then creating a mess with a grinder, though."

I'm fully aware of this... since my dad has a plasma cutter. I've used a plasma cutter for a little bit. I know that they can go through a lot of tips... I know how to weld.

I used to work on the welding crew on the railroad... my job was the grinder. I had to saw through rail. Also had to set up thermite welds, then grind all of the slag down. Murder on the back.

I think I will fit in with this fairly well ;-) just need to know the nuts and bolts I guess.

I'm going to look into this Corel draw stuff tonight.

[millerrocks06]

Hello,

I just wantedto tell you that there is inded a lot of money in the plasma table bussiness. Also a awesome setup to go with is a dynatorch. They are a bit spendy but they are in fact the best package couse i did a lot of research and they are by far the best. They can provide basicaly everything for you. and the website is www.dynatorch.com and the main software that they use/recomend for it is We-Cim wich there website is www.wittlockeng.com again a little spendy but the best deal. I spent a little over 15 grand and i got every thing i need to cut threw 1" matterial and draw anything you can imagine so it is really not that bad. And my home made table can cut a sheet 5'X10'. So there you go if want more imformation just let me know.

Also check out We-Cim wich again the web site for that is www.wittlockeng.com

[Mike@Torchmate]

I have a water tray but it is 4" below the grate. Takes care of the sparks and falling pieces but does little for the smoke....oh, and that SMOKE! It's vaporized metal that floats in the air and condenses out all over the shop. It's volcanic in nature and the deposits are conductive and stick. Won't pick up completely with a shop vac and blowing it with air just spreads it some more. There have been threads of guys building water trays that hold constant level and touch the back of the metal (partually submerged). A commercial shop that cut a lot of stainless turned me on to the process using conventional plasma (Hypertherm 900). Reports are it cuts down a lot on dust and smoke. Conventional dust extraction (vacuum at the cutting tool) does little of nothing for plasma. Smoke bounces along under the material and wifts up in plumes all over the table.

Bringing the water level up to the top of the material support (just touching the back of the material) will cut down on 99% of all smoke and dust that the machine produces. It is far more effective then a down-draft design or even the overhead tent vacuum rooms. It also helps to prevent warping a little on lighter plates due to the water touching the material and the torch's air blowing water over the surface. Enough so that your parts are usually cool to the touch after cutting. (Except on thicker materials such as 1/4" and up)

One thing to remember is that all that would be smoke and dust will collect in the bottom of your water table creating a metallic sludge comprised of metal particles, rust particles, etc...