[jho5820705]

I have my BP is a heated garage but normally keep the heat set at 50 degrees during the winter. Is this too cold. I understand that if the machine is to cold it will blow drive transistors. How warm should I keep the shop?

[philbur]

I doubt they are so delicate that 50 degs F would be a problem. However my garage is unheated so I would also be interested in knowing the lower temperature limit for typical CNC electronics.

Regards
Phil

I have my BP is a heated garage but normally keep the heat set at 50 degrees during the winter. Is this too cold. I understand that if the machine is to cold it will blow drive transistors. How warm should I keep the shop?

[keebler303]

for electronics, the colder the better, overclockers have successfully cooled cpu's with liquid nitrogen. The issue for a mill would be the increased viscosity of the way lube and the reduced clearances due to thermal shrink between precision components. I can't imagine 50 deg. being a problem, after all it will only be cold for a few minutes.

Keep your hat and mittens on.
Matt

[philbur]

What happens to electrolytic capacitors if you freeze them and then apply 240 volts? I think the fact that a CPU may survive doesn't necessarily apply to all components. Some electronic products I have check on have a specified minimum operating temperature and a minimum storage temperature.

Regards
Phil

for electronics, the colder the better, overclockers have successfully cooled cpu's with liquid nitrogen. The issue for a mill would be the increased viscosity of the way lube and the reduced clearances due to thermal shrink between precision components. I can't imagine 50 deg. being a problem, after all it will only be cold for a few minutes.

Keep your hat and mittens on.
Matt

[cncboss6]

Hi Guys, I would try to keep it close to 60 or above. I blew transisters at 45-50 degrees because the oil on the ways is alot thicker. Why take a chance and make alot of work for yourselfs. It happened to me, so now I keep mine above 60 degrees. Good luck, Pat

[jho5820705]

I purchased this mill in the fall when it was still warm and have been working on it since to get it running. I had the x and y axis working well and finally found the problem on the z axis last weekend, broken wire. Now all three axis are acting up. They will only move .030 at a time. They move fine if I just jog one step at a time but when I try to jog .010 it will only move about .005. I wondered about the way lube being to thick. Is there a thinner way lube to use or a syntheic lube that will work at 50 - 60 degrees. I don't want to keep the garage above 60 degrees just for the mill since I only have weekends to play with it.

[philbur]

It might be a problem with the coefficient of expansion of iron together with none uniform temperature rather than oil viscosity. If you come into a cold room and crank up the temperature there is the possibility that the gibs will temporarily seize until the machine temperature is reasonably uniform.

Regards
Phil

I purchased this mill in the fall when it was still warm and have been working on it since to get it running. I had the x and y axis working well and finally found the problem on the z axis last weekend, broken wire. Now all three axis are acting up. They will only move .030 at a time. They move fine if I just jog one step at a time but when I try to jog .010 it will only move about .005. I wondered about the way lube being to thick. Is there a thinner way lube to use or a syntheic lube that will work at 50 - 60 degrees. I don't want to keep the garage above 60 degrees just for the mill since I only have weekends to play with it.

[jho5820705]

How long do you think it would take to get the machine up to a uniform temperture? I had the furnace set on 65 for about 24 hours before I tried it he last time. It acted the same as it did when the temperture was at 50.

[philbur]

Then its not the oil viscosity either. You have some other problem.

Regards
Phil

How long do you think it would take to get the machine up to a uniform temperture? I had the furnace set on 65 for about 24 hours before I tried it he last time. It acted the same as it did when the temperture was at 50.

[Willbird]

If that machine has a hollow base like series 1 put a small heat source in there 100-200 watts, people use light bolbs but I'm not sure if they are effiecient or not, would seem that light is not heat to me :-).

Bill

[RICHARD ZASTROW]

jho, Would a radiant heater focused on the BP, turned on only as needed, keep the machine warm enough? I recall a Korean shop where the operater was positioned on a seat on a travelling wheelhead roll grinder. There were two 5-gal. cans with charcoal fires inside situated so the operator passed over them keeping him warm. The rest of the shop was cold.

[jho5820705]

Well Phil, I don't think that is what I wanted to hear. But that is the way things go I guess. Back to the drawing board and start checking everything all over again. Machinically everything seems to work fine. I can manually move the y and z axis and they move freely. X axis rotates the ballscrew so is harder to check.
Bill, the machine doesn't have a hollow base unfortunately. Be a good way to heat the machine without heating the whole shop.
DZASTR, I am afraid that a heater focused on the machine would not heat just the machine. There is nothing but open space around the machine and it would probably disapate the heat as fast as I could apply it until the whole area was heated.

[NC Cams]

Charcoal fires in a closed shop are a good, no excellent way to DIE - Carbon monoxide.

Think a 100 watt light bulb doesn't give off heat, turn one on and then grab it bare handed after 10-15 minutes. We used them to head bearings for quick installs after we freeze the shaft.

Coefficient of thermal expansion - probably irrelevant becuase cast iron expand/contracts the same as cast iron, the net clearance should essentially be the same.

HOWEVER< Grease turns into glue at low temp - gear lube turns into jello unless fortifed with a pour point suppressant (allows the oil to pour at low temp) - to the disbelievers, here's where Dexron has a real advantage over "gear box oil".

Worried about heat, get a small dipstick heater and use it to heat up the oil sump reservoir. Race cars also have block and/or oil pan heaters that can be investigated.

You can also heat the base of the unit up with some of the heater wire stuff that is used to keep pipes thawed in mobile homes and/or to prevent ice dams on the gutters of poorly insulated house. Afterall, if it feels warm to touch, it is over 98 deg F.

Speaking of insulation, insulate the garage (ceiling first then the walls). If done well, you can almost heat the garage with a candle.

You'll easily pay for the insullation with the savings in heating oil or gas or your LIFE via not using charcoal (IDEA: buy the guys in that Korean shop some match box life insurance - list yourself as the beneficiary)

Our shop dips into the 50's during the winter (2000sq ft, high ceiling). Takes a while to warm up. When we go to run a machine, we simply start it up and let it warm up for 20-30 min, a bit more for the cam grinder.

With experience, you'll know when the machine is "warmed up" (usually well before the operator in most instances).

[Willbird]

Yes NC a 100 watt lightbulb gives off heat, does it give off as much heat as a 100 watt cartridge heater ?? maybe not because it's intended purpose is to make LIGHT not heat, the heat is a wasted byproduct.

Bill

[philbur]

What control software are you using. Have you check the settings. Have you tried any moves with G0 or G01.

If the problem isn't where you thought it was then it's where you thought it wasn't.

Regards
Phil

Well Phil, I don't think that is what I wanted to hear. But that is the way things go I guess. Back to the drawing board and start checking everything all over again. Machinically everything seems to work fine. I can manually move the y and z axis and they move freely. X axis rotates the ballscrew so is harder to check.
Bill, the machine doesn't have a hollow base unfortunately. Be a good way to heat the machine without heating the whole shop.
DZASTR, I am afraid that a heater focused on the machine would not heat just the machine. There is nothing but open space around the machine and it would probably disapate the heat as fast as I could apply it until the whole area was heated.

[jho5820705]

No I haven't tried a G0 or G01 command yet. I can give that a try and see what happens. I think I will check the voltages also and see if I am getting the right voltage when I try to make the move. I had to work last weekend and only had a few minutes to check it out after I fixed the broken wire. Maybe I can find a few minutes tomorrow evening after I get home or this weekend anyway.