[keebler303]

I picked this vise up cheap thinking I could fix it and make it workable. The question is, what is the best way?

1) Remove the broken pieces and build it back up with weld (nickel rod, PITA), mill and grind back to good.

2) Put it back together and let the bolts/clamping force hold the load.

3) Mill a new slot in from the existing and redrill for bolts. I would end up with a little shorter vise but it might be the easiest (best) way.

Any ideas?

Thanks
Matt

[Geof]

I have absolutely no faith in welding cast iron so I would go for a mechanical repair. Is it possible to dripp and tap endways into the back of the vise to bolt on a piece of 3/4" thick cold rolled to act as a support behind the broken pieces; if possible I would simply leave them in place but it could also be possible to machine down the back of the vise so that the cold rolled completely took the place of the broken part.

An important point to remember is that the cold rolled should go all the way the the bottom of the vise; and when I type this I realise that probably means the end does have to be machined. The bolts should be about one quarter of the way down the vise so the overhang distance from the bolt center to the point where the load acts is as short as possible and much shorter than the distance to the bottom end of the cold rolled.

I think I would use four 3/8" high tensile bolts and have at least 3/4" of thread engaged.

[Donkey Hotey]

Geof entertained your question, now I'm going to be the voice of reason: why would you want to fix such a thing? I bought a nice Kurt D60 vise on eBay for $100. I see one going in the next few hours and it's right on the verge of $100:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Kurt-D60-Anglelo...mZ260334413692

Enco has those Chinese 6" vises on sale right now for $85:
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?P...PARTPG=INLMK32

It's not worth your trouble. Harvest the jaws and the handle and drop the remains in the recycling drum.

[keebler303]

I already have one decent vise and its only for hobby use. I might try bolting on some support piece to the back of it. If I really needed a vise, I would just buy one, but I figured it might be worth salvaging. We'll see if I get around to working on it.

Matt

[Mcgyver]

agree with Greg on the Kurt and not bothering to repair it. Disagree on the chineese vise though - waste of money imo....i've seen so many busted and the results of everything you mill in it will depend on its accuracy. Kind of like the guy who buys the cheapest drill and circular saw, his work will always suffer and bit and he'll always be a little frustrated using it. I like to buy the good stuff because i'm cheap

[Geof]

Geof entertained your question, now I'm going to be the voice of reason: why would you want to fix such a thing?...

These days I would not; 20 years ago I would. I was answering the question HOW, not the question WHY.

[Donkey Hotey]

Disagree on the chineese vise though - waste of money imo....i've seen so many busted

Exactly my point. From the pictures, I think he's starting with a broken Chinese vise. Why bother to fix a broken Chinese vise when you can at least have an unbroken one with fresh jaws for $85? I agree the Kurt blows the Chinese stuff away but I was just comparing apples to apples.

From Matt's profile, he's in Ohio. I would guess that there are plenty of decent, local Kurt D60 vises to be had. Keep an eye on eBay, search under Business and Indsturial for KURT then sort by distance. That's how I found mine locally. It was pretty grungy but the machined surfaces were nice and clean. I might repaint it someday.

Hey Matt, I know how it hurts to throw away something you think you can fix. Believe me: I'm a pack rat . It took everything I had to pitch the broken Chinese vise I had. I was convinced that I would eventually fix it. It's long gone. I don't miss it. I still have the handle and the jaws. It had 1/2-12 threads. Yes, 12 TPI, not 13 TPI. I have no idea where the stinkin' Chinese got those bolts. Man I hated that thing.

Please post back if you do fix it.

[mactec54]

Hi Donkey Hotey

The 12 tpi is 1/2" BSW a standard English thread

[Donkey Hotey]

The 12 tpi is 1/2" BSW a standard English thread

Whitworth? WHITWORTH? With a standard 3/8" socket in the head? I'm not buying it...well...maybe.

I used to own a Norton 850 (motorcycle). Some of the fasteners used SAE wrenches, some needed metric. I still don't know what fractions they used for those heads (yes, I've read what the standard is...it still doesn't make sense). It wouldn't surprise me to find that the Chinese mixed a BSW thread with an SAE head in a metric vise.

I still couldn't buy bolts for that stupid thing. It wasn't an issue until I needed to bolt a workstop to the back of the vise. Did I mention that I hated that vise?

[Geof]

.. Why bother to fix a broken Chinese vise when you can at least have an unbroken one with fresh jaws for $85?...

Because if you can fix it in 30 minutes you are earning $170 per hour tax free.

[mcarvey]

If I was extremely gung-ho about fixing it, I would probably mill off the broken section and bolt on a piece of 3/8"ish steel as Geoff suggested. I probably wouldn't splurge on high strength bolts because it doesn't increase the stiffness and the cast iron is likely to be the weak point, depending on the amount of thread. Its possible that you're faster at fixing things than I am, but I'd say that it would take more than an hour to do this, depending on the tools/material that you have. As I type this I realize that this is a bunch of time for a non-guarenteed fix. If this is indeed a Chinese vice (likely unless someone dropped it) I have limited faith in the strength of the iron. If the cast iron is so bad that the whole end can crack off, I'm not sure how strong tapping into it (which obviously has way less shear area) will be.
I personally wouldn't spend more than 30 minutes fixing this, so I would probably not fix the broken back part, lightly bolt the rear jaw holder in place, and they drill vertically through it and the cast iron. I would then put in 2 3/8" ish or so shear pins (depending on how much room you have to drill- you certainly don't want to crack a casting any more). I would then put something in the vice, clamp it up tight (to take up any slop), and then fully tighten the bolts that hold it down. I would then probably machine the rear jaw so that it is parallel to the table. This is probably the fastest way to do it, and can probably get you 80% of the way there.
Other options are just relying on the clamping force of the bolts and using it as a drill press vice, or convert it into a non-machining vice (maybe you cut a lot of rod and want to machine some v-grooves in it) or a press/nutcracker of some sort.

I share everyone's opinions on Chinese vices- I got one a while back when I got my first mill/drill, and it eventually broke (in a slightly different area)- I fixed it as best I could and remachined the jaws. That worked, for a bit, but it eventually got out of alignment, and I curse that thing everytime I use it. I got a used Kurt when I got my new mill, and it makes me smile every time I use it.

Hope this helps.

-Matt

[Khalid]

85 dollars are much counted when u can repair it within 10 dollars...I agree with the Geof...

[shay z]

if you insist on using this vise do not fix it but make a new part on a plate and bolt the vise to that plate.

if you try to weld it i don't think it will hold.

I bought 2 6" vise made in taiwan in about 80$ per piece here in israel. probably in the US it will be even cheaper.

[keebler303]

I have a pretty nice older bridgeport vise which was a freebie. It works great for me but its lacking in some respects. The main annoyance is that I can't move the jaws to the outside to clamp big plates. So I have to remove the vise, align and clamp down my piece, machine it, then put my vise back on and indicate it true again. As I said before, its just a hobby deal and I'm in college so time is more abundant (only slightly) than money. I'll post up if I make any progress. Might work on it this afternoon before dinner with the family.

Matt

[Donkey Hotey]

I had to do a few hours of driving yesterday and had more time to think about this. I still don't see an acceptable way to truly 'fix' this vise.

What you're trying to do is restore a ledge that provides 2 things: an edge that is square to the vise frame and to resist all of the thrust (shear) load from the clamping pressure.

As was already suggested, you could mill the broken area to create a square ledge. Once that's cleaned up, you could create a steel shim to build that area back up to the level of the rails.

Now the catch: you need to pin that new piece to the base casting. The pinning has to be very precise. Any deflection at that joint is going to cause deflection when you clamp the vise (losing your square referenced jaw).

So you have to create tight pinned bores, drive some steel pins into the base and preferably press the shim plate into place. Even then, all the shear load is going to be carried through those pins. If the original casting failed the way it did, I think the pins are going to crack right out of the casting.

Bolts are going to have some 'give' to them so they aren't going to work very well for keeping that edge square.

I'm still not optimistic but maybe this'll give you some food for thought in designing your solution.

[MrWild]

Could you take two more pictures? The underside of the vice is one, and from the front looking down to the back at a 45* angle the other. I don't have anything similar so don't know what those areas look like.

[keebler303]

I can take more pictures but it will not be until next weekend. I am in Florida right now. It would seem nice but its too dang hot here even in the winter!

Matt

[dertsap]

Bolts are going to have some 'give' to them so they aren't going to work very well for keeping that edge square.

.

not if he was ream or bore out the bolt holes , counterbore the jaw and use shoulder bolts .

i would machine out the whole break and drill and tap in a new piece , you'd need the bolts to be vertical and horizontal for strength


the guys had meantioned the poor quality of chinese vises , it wouldn't matter what make of vise that is , it will no longer compare in quality against even them , its a tool and you have to be able to have 100% trust in it

[hkrok]

lower price with bad quality can bring more troubles

[Cruiser]

The best fix i could imagine on this vise would be to break off the pieces and clean all of it as best you can and try to leach out any oils soaked into break area then place pieces back into place then heat the whole thing slowly and sweat braze the break area with some good brass rod. The core will have to be hot enough that it won't cool and interfere with the flow of the brass through the entire break area, and you want as much capillary soak into cast as is possible, also it might be good to drill and pin a couple of small mild steel pins and gently peen into place to hold position of pieces and give another few points of brass anchoring from wicking around pins. Then when satisfied, put it in a hot oven and let it rest till slowly cooled. The most expensive part of this method would of course be cost of heating it enough that it doesn't draw torch heat away from the area your trying to flow brass into. The idea of using hi-Nicko rod would be strong but near impossible to reshape or just too expensive, to accomplish, as it would be as hard as a well diggers bit ! When your done it would be an excellent base for a clamping fixture ! mounting plate on top and machine a pocket hold for your part then simply apply some clamp with vise action. The heating may leave some distortion in the casting but likely would be minimal from what I've seen doing similar repairs, yet quite strong.
Just my $.0002