[dertsap]

tonite was another bs nite , i am fed up with the pessure , i am fed up with making things work rather than having the right thing for the job ,i am fed up with editing bs programs , i am fed up with carrying the blame when things go wrong , i am fed up with hearing nothing but negative crap from the management when things are tense , and never hearing any good when things where done exceptionally well (still could have been better ), i am fed up with busting my butt taking no lunch and being asked is that all thats done by the end of my shift , i am fed up with having to eat my pride .
i could go on !!

if you read between the lines you may pickup on the fact i'm fed up(nuts) , whats kept me here this long is i get paid well ,which in itself becomes an achor
i am tired and ever increasingly becoming angrier and less patient everyday , problem is its at work and at home ,so its time to make another move or pull the pin alltogether and get into something else . every company that i have worked at sucked in one way or another except one ,and that one packed up and moved south

i'm interested to see and understand how many good shops vs sweat shops there are out there ,

so if you want to vent (nuts) heres a good spot ,or if you want to gloat go for it

this may be the humour i need at this point

[dertsap]

oh ya
the new camera in the lunch room pisses me off too

[Switcher]

We have cameras all over the place, we were told it was a homeland security thing.

Do they really think a security guard that makes $7 is going to watch them all day? Ha!


.

[dertsap]

the cameras around the shop didn t bother me too much ,until they added more and added the one in the lunchroom ,thats the one that kills me , that goes beyond security ,it just ignorant

[little bubba]

Here is a horror story, I might start rambling because I am going to get so aggravated thinking about it, but here goes.

Ended up running a small shop, Mazak mill, Mazak lathe, Fadal 4020, Accuslide, and some other support equipment. The owner stayed on the bidding/contracting side and was at a different location. In 2005 my pay was cut $4 an hour, but now with bonuses, which I was susposed to be getting already. I saw one quarterly check for $900, with the other half coming at the end of the year, never saw that either. After a year I did get back $2.50 of my pay, but nothing more, never a bonus.

This owner was on a mission to lose money and make sure nobody ever got a bonus no matter what. I did outside work, that I bid and dealt with the customers, and also did our stuff that came from the owners side of the company, which was way way way way way way way way underbid. When I started making money he would swamp me with crap that we didn't have the equipment for.

Ex 1) I had lined up a nice job, 30 castings at $600 a piece. With fixturing and everything, and me babysitting and setting up other machines, 3 weeks tops, 1 shift. However the owner decided that I needed to run a rush job of piston rings(I don't know what they were, they looked like piston rings). He could have bought them off the shelf for $800 total, 4" diameter, .070 wall thickness, .030 thick with 7 grooves .015 deep, .030 wide, out of 321, it could have been made out of any 300 series stainless 303!!!!!!! but no, 321, not even 304, 3fricken21. They ran 10 hours a day for a fricken month, and I had to pass on the $18000 dollar job. So that machine for the month made $800, not $18000 plus a week. Not a job we had the equipment for, and he bought the worst material possible.

Ex 2) 2500 pieces, 304, susposed to be made out of tubing, 1.09 long, cross holes. The company is selling them at 75 cents each, so he goes out and buys the wrong sized tubing, then buys solid, so I need to put a 1" diameter hole into 304, 2500 pieces, and the shop is getting a grand total of $1250. I won't even tell you how much we lost on that one.

Ex 3) Sitting in a meeting, the owner is saying that I'm late on a bunch of jobs, "like what?" knowing I'm not late, he throws one at me. Due 2 months ago, I never saw it, so I ask where is the material, he hasn't ordered it yet(He loved ordering material, which he never actually did), but its my fault that it hasn't shipped yet. Brain dead aluminum part, perfect for a VMC and a turning center, 4hours tops. Needs an alodine(chromic conversion coating) we can do that and a solid film lube, which my friend up the street does, get the material here tomorrow and it will be out in 3 days, quick $1300. So 4 weeks later the material shows up, and its being sent out to another shop because it is the kind of work that we ACTUALLY HAVE the machines to do. 6 weeks later, the other shops lathe goes down and won't be up for 6 more weeks, and since it was so late the contract was cancelled. What a dumb ass.

Ex 4) Material shows up, simple part, square chunk of brass with an acme thread stuck through it. I didn't have a PO from the owner yet, but dug through the files to find the prints and quantities, and the owners nephew who was overseeing things in the warehouse/shop told me to go with it. Done in two days(actually a few hours, but I had to get the tap), 3 weeks after the job had already shipped to the gov (the material showed up after the due date), I got reamed because they already had a PO and quote to send it to another shop. I'm sooooo sorry for trying to make the company money and get jobs out on time.

Ex 5) Big quantity job for us, 1000s of pieces, Aluminum bronze thrust washer, 5" in diameter, some freaky slots and tight tolerances, made out of tubing. Material shows up 3 months after the job is due, the day the material shows up is when I find out I have to make the parts, I get told to drop everything and start on them. 5 weeks running 12-16 hours a day, 3 ops, eating up the lathe and one mill. I got *****ed out because I wasn't "scheduling" properly, now, if I can even speak english and understand the word "schedule" I can't "schedule" something I don't know about it, especially if it is going to take 5 weeks.

Ex 6) Big pin out of 17-4, 12.375"long, 11" of ±.001, 1.5" diameter. I have a PO for 3 of them, and a print(holy crap!!!!! I actually got a print!!!!) Knurled head, my PO is for a HUGE $60(there goes the bonus). The material that shows up(before the due date believe it or not) is TWO(<-- I have a PO for 3) pieces 2" diameter ONE INCH LONG!!! What does the owner tell me, "rub it, it will get longer" Months later I finally got his nephew to order me the material, he was frustrated also, and now also gone from that sh**hole. Another late job, my fault, of course.

I could keep going on and on and on, about the stupidness. When I quit, I didn't even work out my notice. When I went to get my tools, the owner showed up to yell at me. He said he never wanted to see me around again, that changed really quick, when in about 3 weeks he was calling my business partner wanting me to go over and help. I *****ed at him about the paycut, "You should work more overtime". A**HOLE.

Oh well, we did a heat treat job for them a few weeks back, and we got $200 of the $315 left in the bank. All tooling vendors have cut them off, they are 3 months behind on machine payments, they have parts sitting at another machine shop(they have their own fricken machine shop??????) that they can't get because they don't have the money to pay COD for the one JOB that will save the company(you can't pay 3 million in bills with a 3/4 million contract).

Now I am out on my own, with my friend from way back in college. We are out producing that crappy shop we both worked for by about 100%, just the two of us. Our machines are old and sort of crappy. '93 Fadal 4020, '84 Mazak QT20, an '84 Acroloc, '78 Wells Index with a bandit controller, and as of yet never run '84 Star swiss machine. We are still running on phase convertors, so can't run the Mazak and the Fadal at the same time, but full power is coming soon.


Derstap, get out, I put in my resignation the day after I was venting about work to my GF, and I was so so furious. That spit flying out your mouth with every cuss word furious. The kind of mad you shouldn't get. When work effects your personal life to that extent get out.

In my resignation letter I refered to "watery bowels", "nausia", "effects on my personal life", "lack of sleep", "head aches", "unbearable work condition". The owner told me to never try and use him as a reference, like I would admit that I worked there.

If its that bad, get out. Easier said than done, I know. Give it a shot on your own, from your posts, I know you know your stuff, you know it very well, you may not know the business end of it well yet, but the technical side you know.

Being out on my own is the best thing I have ever done in my life, am I scared sh**less, yes. Would I change it, no fricken way. Its a blast, Its a Friday night and I'm posting on a machining message board, how sad is that? but I'm at work, I've been here since Thursday morning, and I'll be here until about 45 minutes before the start of the Daytona 500 on Sunday morning, its startup time, it won't always be like this, but for now, its what I have to do.

[ragman]

Cameras in the shop?? If that happened here everyone would walk out!!
I thought my job was bad before reading the post above.......sorry to hear that there's people like that in our industry. Good on you for getting out. We spend a third of our lives at work, so you should always try to find something that you like. No point being miserable!

[ATV]

dertsap,

What you're describing is called "golden handcuffs." That means you have a horrible job but you're paid so well that the management feels they can walk all over you and they know you can't afford to leave.

The best thing you can do is go into business for yourself. You'll make a lot more money, you'll work harder but you'll also work for someone whom you like! One day, when you decide to retire, the equity you built in the business can be sold.

[Geof]

....The best thing you can do is go into business for yourself. You'll make a lot more money, you'll work harder but you'll also work for someone whom you like! One day, when you decide to retire, the equity you built in the business can be sold.

As a business owner I can agree with the work harder, but I am not sure I agree about the working for someone you like; I sometimes really detest myself for getting into this racket.

[dertsap]

dertsap,

What you're describing is called "golden handcuffs." That means you have a horrible job but you're paid so well that the management feels they can walk all over you and they know you can't afford to leave.

.

well there are a number of other places around that pay the same and the walking all over me thing is out , anytime they get in my face i am quick to jump back ,they know my limits , i'll take sh^* when ive messed up and will put my head down and take it like a man but i won t get dumped on otherwise
bottom line is they can t afford to loose me , they know it and i know it ,money has nothing to do with it ,

we are and have been running lean for a few years ,the job market is large and many companies are hurting for guys , the workload is heavier and the part size is heavier as well , it hurts when we make a bad part , this is the base of the problem , tempers are flairing on both sides and the pressure is pretty heavy on both sides .
ive always worked well and thrived under stress but am growing tired of it .ive got 25 more years left of this (i hope) , i don t want to drop sometime in between

over all person to person the boss is an ok guy , its the stress of it all , and its something i beleave the floor shouldn t have to see


i'm making my move its just when and where

[fuzzyracing1967]

WOW! I'm sorry to hear how bad some of you have it.I am one of the lucky ones i guess that works for good owners,with a great bunch of guys,doing interesting work,oh yeah the pay and benifits ain't bad ether.Been here 24 years now,over the years there have been some bad times,we all burn out from time to time,and lets face it there will be times when even the best screw up a part.Have had a little more stress lately,one of the owners decided to semi retire and thought it would be good if I picked up what he was doing,(quotes-tool ordering-and helping with customers).Don't get me wrong I love a new challenge,so it has been fun.I can say though if I had it bad I would walk in a heartbeat,money and health ain't worth it,so good luck to you all.

[MrWild]

Locking horns. Been there, done that, loved the shop, hated the bullsh1t from the suits. They actually thought if they kept the workers pissed off, they'd produce more work, so they went out of their way to upset the workforce.

Good money, great machines, we got to run them all as we were given stacks of prints for dies and we did it all from raw stock to try out and sizing oif the blank. Heat in the winter, AC in the summer, and if it weren't for management, it'd have been heaven.

[ImanCarrot]

I'm quite lucky I guess. I set my own targets, design, program and machine everything. Quote the job and sort out quallity issues.

I'm not that badly paid too, only problem is living in the UK- all the immigrants have took the council housing. A one bedroom flat in this area sells for about 120K (GBP). A fancy 1 bed flat will sell for &#163;250K (that's a quarter of a million quid). Aint no way to afford that unless you win the freaking lottery

It's getting to the point where I can't actualy afford to work: my girlfriend has a similar disposable income to myself every month and has never worked a day in her life cos of benefits n stuff. Something wrong there I think...

[Eurisko]

My friends...
I don't know any of you personally. We live many miles apart. Different countries, backgrounds. We share a common interest.

I never cease to be amazed at the depth of knowledge you have, and how willing you are to share that knowledge with others.

Reading your posts has made me realize that people are basically the same, everywhere. We want to be treated fairly and with respect. If our jobs were wonderful and fulfilling, I doubt that CNCZone would even exist. Here, we can do things OUR way. Be creative. Make mistakes. Who cares?

Yes, my job sucks. Managerial ignorance seems to be a global phenomenon.

[ragman]

I'm quite lucky I guess. I set my own targets, design, program and machine everything. Quote the job and sort out quallity issues.

I'm not that badly paid too, only problem is living in the UK- all the immigrants have took the council housing. A one bedroom flat in this area sells for about 120K (GBP). A fancy 1 bed flat will sell for £250K (that's a quarter of a million quid). Aint no way to afford that unless you win the freaking lottery

It's getting to the point where I can't actualy afford to work: my girlfriend has a similar disposable income to myself every month and has never worked a day in her life cos of benefits n stuff. Something wrong there I think...

Yeah, my job situation is much the same as yours. I left my last employer because of management bs (amongst other crap) and joined the small business that I'm now at. Here, I'm appreciated for the skills I have - they tell me quite often how happy they are with me and the parts I produce. I'm my own boss so to speak at work - I program, design/redesign current jobs, setup, run, service and repair (when neccessary) the VMC. All they do is provide a list of job requirements every fortnight, ask for my input on material to buy to make the parts with and pay me. Pays pretty good too! I also get to search for and buy my own tooling and inserts. I work up to 60 hours a week which includes some programming at home, not because I have to, but because I want to. A lot of people hate their jobs - I like mine!

Unlike ImanCarrot's housing situation, though, housing here is affordable. 3 bedroom brick house (fairly new) on a 1000sq/m block for about $AU240,000.

[PinMan]

By all means, I dont want to gloat, but I love my job. I work with incredible wonderful people and the variety of work that I do keeps me entertained as well as challenged. Of course there is the normal share of gossip and drama around here, but what place doesnt have that?

Some of the posts here that I have read really make me appreciate my job even more lol. I wish and hope all of you can find what I have found. Enjoyment in your job.

[PinMan]

I wanted to add that most likely the reason why my job is good is due to the fact that it is a very small company. We have only around 100 employees. I have worked my share of jobs in the super huge global companies, and from my experience, those are the companies that screw you and ignore you the most.

[Ferny]

First off I don't work in machining but I think my experience was the same as many of yours. After 8 years at the same job I grew to absolutely hate it! I couldn't take the endless crap from the owner reaping all of the benefits from our endless hard work and long hours. I don't blame him, after all he took all the risk starting the business. I was scared sh!tless to look for a different job and didn't think I was qualified for the ones I applied for. It turned out I was just as qualified as others were. It seems like job postings shoot for the stars but they will settle for someone with on the job experience

That was 1997 and 3 jobs ago! Today I am making more than double my hourly '97 wage and have since held 2 salaried (software verification and hardware engineer) positions with only a 2 year electronics degree! This has been my second dream job in a R&D lab to date. It didn't happen by staying at a job I hated!

I have found the best time to change jobs is when you're currently employed and it's your decision. It's the only way to make a decent jump in salary like 10% + and a hiring bonus possibly. You just can't do that with measly 1%-3% raises yearly.

You can gripe about it or do something about it...try it...you might find yourself rewarded for it.

Good Luck,

Ferny.

[Bowman]

Dertsap - I am not in a machining business but as far as jobs go I know what your saying. If it is affecting you at home you really need to do something about it. When I was having issues I found myself unhappy at work and at home which is not healthy at all. Took me awhile but I learned to just basically no give a rats ass anymore about what they say at work. I totally stopped giving input and being looked at as negative for making suggestions. When your being shot down by someone with a Business Admin Degree from the University of Phoenix when you have an actual engineering degree and the job is in a production facility you just have to say F**K it.

Since I have stopped listening to the corporate BS and asking questions no one wants to answer my stress level has gone down A LOT. I leave the job at work and I don't think about what the big whigs say twice since it will likely never happen anyway why cloud my mind.

So I just do what I need to in the day to keep stuff moving along because thats all they really care about and then I go home. Moving out of urban central life has helped A LOT as well. No more boom boom cars and when you can go home from a crappie day, grab a gun and step outside your door to shoot it just melts the stress away.

Life is to short, if you have other options explore them. Most changes only bring better things if thats your intent to begin with so good luck and relax, no management BS is worth the hot wind they blow saying it. I think in many instances the Peter Principle is in place so deeply these types of work places will always exist.

As for the guy who has to drill holes in stainless to make tubing, OMG run for your life from that place, sounds like he is using it as a write off loss on taxes for something else he profits well from.

Bo

[thkoutsidthebox]

At least you folks are not tied into a contract for over a decade more, that will cost you a second mortgage to get out of, because of a misguided career choice when you were young.....if its that bad, leave....at least you can...

[fuzzyracing1967]

(I wanted to add that most likely the reason why my job is good is due to the fact that it is a very small company. We have only around 100 employees. I have worked my share of jobs in the super huge global companies, and from my experience, those are the companies that screw you and ignore you the most.)
Damm PinMan, you call that a small company! I work with 8 people total,and some times thats to many!