[Titaniumboy]

The Eagle has landed!! MInimal blood shed involved. No 911 calls. Pictures later tonight showing the adventure of getting the mill off of the pallet and onto the newly made caster bases.

Thanks to kvom and Mike for their ideas and suggestions.



I found some 3/4" x 4" mild steel bars at school for the caster bases. I didn't get too good of a deal as they charged me $1.30 per pound, but at least I didn't have to go all over town searching. I cut them to rough length on the bandsaw and then machined each end square. I made the total length of each bar 31-5/8" long so that I would have 4" overhanging on each end of the mill base. Here I have temporarily raised the mill slightly so I could place the caster bases underneath and use my Harbor Freight transfer punches to accurately locate the existing leveling threaded holes.

Attachment 228452


I only have a small bench top drill press and I didn't think it was going to like the 3/8" and 1/2" holes I needed to drill in the caster base, so I used my G0704 mill instead. My mill vise is a cheapy Enco 4" vise and the jaws only open up to 3-7/8"; not enough to hold the 4" wide caster base. I ended up removing the fixed jaw and mounting it on the back side of the vise. My main drill set is the Harbor Freight 115 piece set, and the 3/8" and 1/2" drills worked like a champ and made it through all the holes needed. However, I needed every last inch in the Z axis in order to fit the long jobber size drills and the drill chuck. I can see where a set of screw length drills will come in very handy.

Attachment 228454


Getting ready for paint. All holes drilled, chamfered, and plugged.

Attachment 228464


Caster bases all painted with Rustoleum. I hate this stuff because it takes forever to dry hard, but I had a can on the shelf and the color matched up decently with the mill base. Call me a cheap SOB. The paint job is not as nice as the picture shows, but still better than the factory paint job.

Attachment 228466


Drilling out the leveling casters slightly.

Attachment 228468


Casters attached to caster base. I was able to use 3/8" bolts to attach the casters to the caster base.

Attachment 228470

[Titaniumboy]

The caster bases shown in the last post were unabashedly copied from LeeWays caster bases. The only difference is LeeWay used 3/4" x 6" aluminum and I ended up using 3/4" x 4" steel. Thanks again LeeWay!

I had rented a pallet jack to move the mill off of the pallet and onto the caster bases I had made. I've used pallet jacks before, but I guess I either didn't realize how they worked or had a senior moment, because I forgot all about the pallet jacks front wheels. These front wheels made the pallet jack completely unsuitable for getting the mill off the pallet. At least the pallet jack let me move the pallet into a better position in the shop for beginning the offloading operation.

Attachment 228704


I started by using a 3 foot long pry bar to lift the mill just enough to so I could get the round steel pipe underneath. I had been given a bunch of woodworking pipe clamps only a couple of months before, and it was the black pipe from the pipe clamps that I put to good use.

Attachment 228706 Attachment 228708


Inching the mill backwards. You can see the pipe roller towards the mill front has been left behind. The two wood strips that are on top of the pallet kept getting in the way of the pipe rollers.

Attachment 228712 Attachment 228710


Now I've got the rear of the mill hanging out into space. I put some wood blocking in place in case something went wrong and the mill decided to fall backwards on me.

Attachment 228714


A better view of how far I had the mill hanging in midair. I didn't leave it this way without the wood blocking for very long. I think the pallet jack did add some stability as the mill was being rolled.

Attachment 228716 Attachment 228718


I quickly put the caster base and wood blocking back underneath the mill.

Attachment 228720


The OEM leveling pad has been screwed in and is now holding the caster base in place. The caster rollers don't quite reach the floor so some wood blocking is needed. The threaded holes where the OEM leveling pads was full of all kinds of paint and junk, and I had previously chased all four internal threads with an M12 x 1.75 metric tap.

Attachment 228722 Attachment 228724


The mill is now half supported by the pipe rollers on the pallet, and half supported by the leveling casters. The mill has now been moved rearward by another 6" to 8".

Attachment 228726


A reciprocating saw made quick work of cutting the pallet in half. Notice the odd construction of the pallet. This pallet had a 3 x 4 grid of blocks underneath instead of a full-length beams.

Attachment 228728


Then I moved the mill forward so that the front was now hanging over the edge of the pallet. The front caster base was then put in place and the OEM leveling pads screwed in.

Attachment 228730 Attachment 228732


The pallet jack finally becomes useful, although I suppose a car jack would have done the job also. The pallet jack was used to raise the front of the mill slightly so that the pipe rollers could be removed. The towel is there to protect the paint on the caster base; the Rustoleum paint is still able to be dented with a fingernail after three days.

Attachment 228734


With the pipe rollers removed, now the remaining pallet half could be removed.

Attachment 228736


The pallet jack was relocated to the rear of the mill. Only a slight lift of the mill and the final wood blocking is removed.

Attachment 228738


The mill is finally on the ground!

Attachment 228740


The Torus mill is now fully mobile in the shop. Next step: 240 volt power.

Attachment 228742

[LeeWay]

Excellent use of brain power. The upgraded casters look more like they can handle the job. The smaller ones I used work okay, but are probably right at the edge of the limit for weight. I would not want to roll it much. Once on the pads though, it is rock solid.
I remember when I leveled my table, the tray was not level. I'm curious to know how yours is. My tray tilted to the front, but was okay side to side.
Shimming would get it right, of course, but I had planned on a front drain anyway, so it really was not an issue.

Your floor looks very nice as well. I just painted my floor gray. It always has plastic pellets from routing polycarbonate, so I have white dots on it. Just not the black ones.

That is a fine looking machine you have there.

[Titaniumboy]

The upgraded casters look more like they can handle the job. The smaller ones I used work okay, but are probably right at the edge of the limit for weight. I would not want to roll it much. Once on the pads though, it is rock solid.

I had been concerned about the casters rolling over the grooves between the concrete pads in the shop, but these 2-1/2" wheels are working great when rolling over these grooves.

When I ordered these from the eBay vendor, the caster shown on the right was shown on the eBay listing and was identified as a Trio Pines caster. The caster shown on the left is what was actually sent to me, and is a brand called Durable.

Attachment 228910


In this picture the casters are reversed, with the Trio Pines on the left and the Durable on the right. It is hard to tell from the picture, but the Durable casters rubber foot seemed very loose fitting to me; loose enough that I contacted the eBay vendor and requested that the advertised Trio Pines be sent to me. My plan was to evaluate both sets of casters and then return one of them.

Attachment 228908


This set of pictures shows more clearly how loose the Durable rubber foot is on the left as compared to the Trio Pines rubber foot on the right. It was almost as if the Durable caster was assembled with the wrong size rubber foot.

Attachment 228912 Attachment 228914


Both sets of casters are rated at 1000 pounds per caster, but the Durable casters seem more rugged than the Trio PInes. In spite of this I decided to use the Trio Pines on the Torus mill because the rubber foot seemed to fit better and be more rigid. When I contacted the eBay vendor to return the Durable casters, I was told to just keep them. They may well end up replacing the mini mobile base on the G0704 bench mill.

I remember when I leveled my table, the tray was not level. I'm curious to know how yours is. My tray tilted to the front, but was okay side to side.
Shimming would get it right, of course, but I had planned on a front drain anyway, so it really was not an issue.

I haven't got the mill in the final location , so I haven't bothered with leveling the table yet.

Your floor looks very nice as well. I just painted my floor gray. It always has plastic pellets from routing polycarbonate, so I have white dots on it. Just not the black ones.

Thanks! I had the floor done back in 2006 and it has held up fairly well. The floor can get really slippery if it gets wet. I've also had several spots discolor when the motorcycle tires have been left in one spot for extended periods. I think I've doubled the number of divots in the floor during the last two months because of me dropping heavy steel or cast iron parts. There is a lip from the driveway up to the garage floor that is about an inch high, and when the mill was wheeled into the garage via pallet jack by the driver and I, a chunk of epoxied floor popped off of that lip.

That is a fine looking machine you have there.

You too.

[Titaniumboy]

Well....
Could the room include a Haas milling center, Hardinge toolroom lathe, surface grinder, Solidworks, and HSMExpress? :wee:

[LeeWay]

Well....
Could the room include a Haas milling center, Hardinge toolroom lathe, surface grinder, Solidworks, and HSMExpress? :wee:

...and do we pay by the hour?

[hjl4]

You're right Eric, that's why when you buy casters for any job, you always double the rating to avoid possible issues. So for 500 pounds total, divide by two and there is the required load rating per caster. 250 lbs. I was going to say something when I read his post with the casters he chose, but figured he knew well enough. On a smooth floor, sure go ahead and divide by four. Any cracks or roughness in the floor, you double.

[LeeWay]

I think any of the ones mentioned in this thread are fine for a Torus or Pulsar. I don't think you can over do it for castors though.

[Titaniumboy]

It's alive!!

I've been working on installing a new 100 Amp subpanel in the garage. It was a little easier because the main disconnect from the utility was on the other side of the wall. Finally got the subpanel energized yesterday, and finally the Torus had power supplied to it.

And nothing happened. We checked the incoming terminal strips for voltage and found it. No power, however, beyond the relay mounted on the terminal strip. Finally I had the bright idea to push the green button labeled "PC START" on the side of the control enclosure, and that did the trick. The fans finally came on. The computer also booted up and displayed the Windows desktop. I found a spare USB mouse and launched the icon labeled "Mach 3 Loader". Mach 3 asked for a profile, and I choose the one with Pulsar in the name. I couldn't get anything to move on the mill and gave up for the night.

Today I bought a $15 wired USB keyboard. Also learned that pressing "TAB" activates the JOG function. And I got all three axis moving! And I got all three axis to home.

I haven't been able to get the spindle moving yet. I don't see a "Spindle Start" button anywhere. And going to the MDI screen and entering "S100 M3" didn't do anything. I think I need to watch some Mach 3 videos. Actually I need to watch my first Mach 3 video.

I also learned that the limit switches only work when Homing. The limit switches do not work when jogging. I managed to hit the physical limit on all six limits: X+, X-, Y+, Y-, Z+ and Z-. How much damage did I do?

I'm using a wired mouse and a wired keyboard because I'm assuming that wireless USB would not be a good idea to interface with the mill.

More fun to come tomorrow!

Titaniumboy

[SCzEngrgGroup]

The Pulsar profile will not work right on a Torus, especially w.r.t. the spindle interface. You need to get a Torus profile....

The "limit" switches don't work because they're not limit switches - just home switches. Use soft limits in Mach3.

Regards,
Ray L.

[Titaniumboy]

The Pulsar profile will not work right on a Torus, especially w.r.t. the spindle interface. You need to get a Torus profile.....

Are you still using the Pulsar profile? If so: I think you should get the Torus profile and load it before you do too much troubleshooting.

When I start Mach 3, the SESSION PROFILE screen is the first to pop up. The four choices listed are 1) Mach3Mill, 2) Mach3Turn, 3) Plasma, and 4) Pulsar - Stepper Axis - PBOB. I've been using the number 4 choice all along and now have successfully run all three axis and the spindle.

A quick-start guide would have been nice. Kind of strange how much operator information I received with my manual lathe and mill as compared to this CNC mill. Thank goodness you guys have been here to help out.

Titaniumboy

[hjl4]

Ha Ha Ha, that's funny. Next time try M3 S100, first telling it to rotate clockwise then at what speed. A little bit of G-Code learning would be better then watching a bunch of videos. Baby steps first before you can run. Glad you got it alive though. It's definetetly a great feeling when you see the machine boot up for the first time.

[SCzEngrgGroup]

"Next time try M3 S100, first telling it to rotate clockwise then at what speed."

"Traditionally, calling the spindle speed first is more correct; though most any modern control reads the whole block at once, so it doesn't matter."

These comment suggest you guys don't really understand how G-code executes. As with most programming languages, g-code has a very well-defined execution order. The order in which things appear on the line NEVER matters in g-code. "M3 S100" is exactly the same as "S100 M3". Similarly, "M6 T2 G43 H2" can just as well be written as "G43 T2 H2 M6", or any other order you like. They will all execute identically, barring a G-code interpreter which violates the RS-274 specification..

Regards,
Ray L.

[rlockwood]

"Next time try M3 S100, first telling it to rotate clockwise then at what speed."

"Traditionally, calling the spindle speed first is more correct; though most any modern control reads the whole block at once, so it doesn't matter."

These comment suggest you guys don't really understand how G-code executes. As with most programming languages, g-code has a very well-defined execution order. The order in which things appear on the line NEVER matters in g-code. "M3 S100" is exactly the same as "S100 M3". Similarly, "M6 T2 G43 H2" can just as well be written as "G43 T2 H2 M6", or any other order you like. They will all execute identically, barring a G-code interpreter which violates the RS-274 specification..

Regards,
Ray L.

Well, I believe rs274d defines the order in which items are executed, which is entirely different from them all being executed simultaneously as you suggest. And the last bit is FAR more common than you probably realize. For instance, on my Mori's, which have a Fanuc18i, reversing m6 and Tx produce very different results. Place the M6 first and you get a tool change to the previously preloaded tool, followed by preloading of the specified tool. If no tool was previously preloaded, you get an error. Flip them and you get preload of the tool specified, followed by a tool change. The order optimization section of the programming manual is probably 25 pages long, and details most every scenario possible.

Rob

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[SCzEngrgGroup]

Well, I believe rs274d defines the order in which items are executed, which is entirely different from them all being executed simultaneously as you suggest. And the last bit is FAR more common than you probably realize. For instance, on my Mori's, which have a Fanuc18i, reversing m6 and Tx produce very different results. Place the M6 first and you get a tool change to the previously preloaded tool, followed by preloading of the specified tool. If no tool was previously preloaded, you get an error. Flip them and you get preload of the tool specified, followed by a tool change. The order optimization section of the programming manual is probably 25 pages long, and details most every scenario possible.

Rob

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Rob,

Then, as I indicated, your Mori's are not RS274 compliant. The spec is very clear, and Mach3, and LinuxCNC, DO follow the spec, so order makes no difference in this case.

Regards,
Ray L.

[Titaniumboy]

Ha Ha Ha, that's funny. Next time try M3 S100, first telling it to rotate clockwise then at what speed. A little bit of G-Code learning would be better then watching a bunch of videos. Baby steps first before you can run. Glad you got it alive though. It's definitely a great feeling when you see the machine boot up for the first time.

hjl4,

Seeing the machine come alive after nearly six weeks has been very gratifying. It has been a long wait after ordering it way back in December.

While I'll never claim to be a G-Code expert, I do know G-Code. I have taken three separate community college classes on CNC programming. These CNC classes were surprisingly rigorous, and were every bit as much work as my engineering classes way back when. The instructor set up all three CNC classes such that all the G-Code was hand programmed and all the part geometries were hand-calculated; no cheating with any CAM programs or Solidworks!

The community college had a FADAL, Hurco, and Haas vertical machining centers. The Haas had a trunnion table with a rotary table. They also had a Haas and Kia CNC lathe, along with a wire EDM and a commercial 3D printer.

The one thing I learned after being exposed to all the different CNC controls is that every one of the controls has its own quirks and idiosyncrasies with respect to how they handle G-Code. So I'll be taking really really small baby steps until I fully understand how Mach 3 handles my G-Code.

Titaniumboy

[Titaniumboy]

I'm following LeeWay's suggestion for the spindle break-in. The 500 rpm stint is done and the 1500 rpm 30 minute was just started.

Noticing a couple of things during this spindle run.

1. The spindle VFD is reading is 342 rpm at the 500 rpm level, and 1025 rpm at the 1500 rpm level. Normal due to different size pulleys in the gearbox?

2. I'm hearing a rattle in the spindle that goes for 1-3 seconds and then goes away for 2-5 seconds and then returns again. Normal? Or should I be looking at something in the gearbox?

3. In the Spindle Speed box on the main screen, there are RPM, S-ov, and Spindle Speed entry boxes. I enter the desired speed in the Spindle Speed box, press ENTER and the spindle starts up. The RPM entry box always shows 0 rpm, though.


Titaniumboy

[Novakon]

Here is a little more insight of the Torus and Pulsar spindle operation.

The drive signals to the spindle motor from Mach3 are the step and direction signals. There are no translations into a variable DC like is done on the Torus PRO. This means the accuracy of the spindle RPM is within a few RPM. The spindle servo motor has a normal operating RPM range of 1-3000 while the spindle can operate between 1-4500 RPM. The servo driver's internal electronic transmission is used to compensate for the 1.5:1 pulley ratio. You will notice on the servo driver display that it will display an RPM 2/3's of the actual spindle RPM DRO. This is due to the electronic transmission programming. Mach3's speed DRO will read the actual spindle RPM. Mach3's spindle "steps per" and "rapids" are set for optimum values for use with the servo driver electronic transmission. There are almost infinite combinations of settings that can work between Mach3 and the servo driver to achieve the same result. The parameters chosen allow the spindle to be used for free running and rigid tapping using one transmission ratio. The Torus has rigid tapping capability. The only difference between the production Pulsars and the Torus spindle is the new Pulsar BOB will switch between two electronic transmissions for spindle "free running" and rigid tapping. This new capability gives us more flexibility with the two operating modes.

As we do more tweaking with the Pulsar parameters, The setting for the Torus may be changed also in time. It is just a simple matter to program the servo driver and Mach3 setting.

We hope this gives some insight to the servo spindle operation.

Regards,
Novakon Team

[Titaniumboy]

Novakon,

Thanks for the information on the Torus and Pulsar spindle operation.

Mach3's speed DRO will read the actual spindle RPM.

Mach 3 is not displaying the actual spindle speed for me. I don't see a tachometer in the pulley box for spindle speed feedback?

The only difference between the production Pulsars and the Torus spindle is the new Pulsar BOB will switch between two electronic transmissions for spindle "free running" and rigid tapping.

Do you have any details or info on the BOB used in my Torus? I'm not sure how to switch between free-running and rigid-tapping modes. Or how I should use the rigid-tapping mode. Also BOB info would be useful when I need to bring additional inputs and outputs to the BOB.

----------------------

When I looked inside the pulley box, I saw that the spindle timing pulley has 37 teeth and the motor timing pulley has 58 teeth. Not quite a 1.5:1 ratio, but close at 1.57:1. Or I could be wrong and should be using actual pulley diameters inside of number of pulley teeth to calculate the pulley ratio. I couldn't see any markings on the two timing pulleys, but the timing belt had "HTD540-5M" on it. This means that the timing belt has a 5 mm pitch and is 540 mm outside circumference. I measured the timing belt width at 17 mm.

Why couldn't I increase the maximum speed up from 4500 RPM by installing 1) a larger motor pulley, 2) a smaller spindle pulley, or 3) both a larger motor pulley and a smaller spindle pulley? Or even install dual speed pulleys so that I could keep the original pulley ratio but be able to change to a higher speed pulley ratio? It would be great to be able to get the maximum speed up to 6000 or 7000 RPM.

Titaniumboy

[rlockwood]

Traditionally, calling the spindle speed first is more correct; though most any modern control reads the whole block at once, so it doesn't matter.

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