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IndustryArena Forum > CNC Electronics > Servo Motors / Drives > Kollmorgen S Series A/C Servo drives: How do I connect them for Mach 3 Step/Direction
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  1. #1
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    Kollmorgen S Series A/C Servo drives: How do I connect them for Mach 3 Step/Direction

    Kollmorgen S Series A/C Servo drives: How do I connect them for Mach 3 Step/Direction?

    Drives do have resolvers but also have DB9 connector labeled 'Encoder Equivelent Output' that the current controller (AMC4) was using.

    Appears that I have a few options for inputs and modes. I've read somewhere that STEP/DIRECTION might be used but in POSITION mode on my drives, but no details on how to connect and everywhere I have read says that CNC machines require Torque/Current mode setting.

    I've searched the forum for step/direction to analog converter but have only found homann board for spindle control.

    Trying to connect these to dedicated Mach3 & ESS Smooth Stepper setup.

    Drives are Kollmorgen S Series
    My manuals are attached. Any help would be greatly appreciated!!

    John

  2. #2
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    Re: Kollmorgen S Series A/C Servo drives: How do I connect them for Mach 3 Step/Direc

    differential step/dir come in on C8 on to of drive; opmode 4, electronic gearing.

    of course step/dir requires position mode.

    works fine w/mach3. no adpters needed.

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    Re: Kollmorgen S Series A/C Servo drives: How do I connect them for Mach 3 Step/Direc

    Mike,

    Sorry, your answer only brings more questions....

    I understood C8 to be 'REMOTE ENCODER INPUT' as it is marked.
    With it not being connected on my original setup I assumed it was
    because my servos have resolver input (on C2) and C8 is where the
    encoders would be connected if my motors had encoders instead ???

    Is opmode 4, electronic gearing what I need to set on the drives?

    "of course step/dir requires position mode" <----- what does this
    mode (or any mode for that matter) actually mean? If everywhere else
    on this website (and others) says drives must be in current/torque
    mode for milling machines/routers, and if I need position mode just
    to get Mach3 to communicate am I defeating the purpose of using
    the drive for CNC cutting operation?

    Thank you for the help.

    John

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    Re: Kollmorgen S Series A/C Servo drives: How do I connect them for Mach 3 Step/Direc

    no. you really need to call me to discuss this stuff as you are confused and it is too hard to explain via email it appears.... i will put some stuff below in attempt.....


    Quote Originally Posted by jxdxwx View Post
    Mike,

    Sorry, your answer only brings more questions....

    I understood C8 to be 'REMOTE ENCODER INPUT' as it is marked.
    With it not being connected on my original setup I assumed it was
    because my servos have resolver input (on C2) and C8 is where the
    encoders would be connected if my motors had encoders instead ???

    *** no (: C2 is where your FEEDBACK goes; hence ur resolvers (or encoders if your drive were an encoder drive - you did not give drive part no so I can only assume it is a SR-xx or CR-xx something... assuming is not good....

    Is opmode 4, electronic gearing what I need to set on the drives?

    ** yes if you want to use pulse dir input on C8

    "of course step/dir requires position mode" <----- what does this
    mode (or any mode for that matter) actually mean?

    **ur drive can be torque (current) mode, velocity mode, position mode, or gearing mode.....

    If everywhere else
    on this website (and others) says drives must be in current/torque
    mode for milling machines/routers, and if I need position mode just
    to get Mach3 to communicate am I defeating the purpose of using
    the drive for CNC cutting operation?

    ***no, the wording is just confusing. remember, mach3 is a low cost cnc thingy.... normally it would work in current mode apparently; but the MINUTE the INSTANT you send STEP data to a drive, that drive needs to close the POSITION LOOP. How can a drive in current mode move a given STEP DISTANCE? of course it cannot. to move a STEP DISTANCE - DISTANCE - it has to be in position mode. That takes 99% of the smarts out of the mach3 and puts it into the drive - lets the little thing work that way.

    Thank you for the help.

    **your welcome. call me and I can make it clear.

    John

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    Re: Kollmorgen S Series A/C Servo drives: How do I connect them for Mach 3 Step/Direc

    Mike,

    Called the main number. No answer. Didn't want to keep at it.

    Think I understand a little better. I know that I feel a lot better.

    so... which pins (3 pins?) from C8 will be used ?

    If I need ENABLE, STEP & DIRECTION how do I get that with
    my C8 connector?

    PIN 1 - A
    PIN 2 - A
    PIN 3 - (NC)
    PIN 4 - B
    PIN 5 - B
    PIN 6 - (CABLE SHIELD ?)
    PIN 7 - (NC)
    PIN 8 - I
    PIN 9 - I

  6. #6
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    Re: Kollmorgen S Series A/C Servo drives: How do I connect them for Mach 3 Step/Direc

    our guys are in 8-5pm so call after that and get answer machine... I do not see a message from you...

    ok. again, I am guessing at what "s series" drive you have, but alas, all C8 connectors are the same.

    Checking a typical manual (again w/o part no I am guessing which you have - perhaps you can share that?) :

    5. Gearing Position Controller (OPMODE = 4): the SERVOSTARis configured as a
    positioning controller that can operate in one of three settings (Encoder Follower,
    Pulse/Direction, Up/Down Counter). The setting used is determined by the GEARMODE
    variable.

    OPMODE 4: This mode of operation sets the SERVOSTARup to run as a pulse (or master
    encoder) follower by using the Electronic Gearing feature. The pulse input can either be applied
    through the Configurable Inputs on the C3 connector (up to 2.5 KHz max. - opto-isolated) or
    through the Remote Encoder Input on the C8 connector (up to 3 MHz) on top of the drive.

    Electronic Gearing (Position Mode - OPMODE 4) featuring pulse following or master
    encoder capability with resolution up to 3mhz through C8 connector (2.5khz through
    opto-isolators in C3) (GEAR, GEARMODE, GEARI, GEARO, PEXT, PEXTOFF,
    VEXT, XENCRES, XENCDIR). Homing capability is provided.

    PULSE/DIRECTION COUNTER
    Referring to Figure 1, the pulse signal applied to the A channel
    increments (or decrements depending on the direction) the external
    position counter (PEXT). The line frequencyand the gearing
    relationship determine the speed and amount of the shaft
    movement.
    The direction of shaft rotation isdetermined bythe state of the B
    channel. If the signal is low,the motor turns clockwise (CW). If
    high, the motor turns counter-clockwise (CCW). Setting DIR =0 or
    the sign value stored in GEARI changes this direction relationship
    in the opposite fashion.

    perhaps you have an antique manual that does not have appendix C with complete info on how to wire, setup, and use step/dic input?

    http://www.kollmorgen.com/en-us/prod...al_en-us_reva/

  7. #7
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    Re: Kollmorgen S Series A/C Servo drives: How do I connect them for Mach 3 Step/Direc

    Quote Originally Posted by jxdxwx View Post
    I've searched the forum for step/direction to analog converter but have only found homann board for spindle control.

    Trying to connect these to dedicated Mach3 & ESS Smooth Stepper setup.

    John
    I know you probably don't need this now, but if your still looking...

    http://www.cnczone.com/forums/viper-...quot-step.html
    Manufacturer of CNC routers and Viper Servo Drives
    www.LarkenCNC.com and www.Viperservo.com

  8. #8
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    Re: Kollmorgen S Series A/C Servo drives: How do I connect them for Mach 3 Step/Direc

    What he wanted to do was just connect his step/dir into his Kollmorgen Servostar drives. they already have a position loop built inside so have no need for a step/dir separate position controller like you are building.

  9. #9
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    Re: Kollmorgen S Series A/C Servo drives: How do I connect them for Mach 3 Step/Direc

    Mike, what year would that Kollmorgen drive be ? How long have they had step/dir inputs on their drives ?
    Manufacturer of CNC routers and Viper Servo Drives
    www.LarkenCNC.com and www.Viperservo.com

  10. #10
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    Re: Kollmorgen S Series A/C Servo drives: How do I connect them for Mach 3 Step/Direc

    Quote Originally Posted by Larken View Post
    Mike, what year would that Kollmorgen drive be ? How long have they had step/dir inputs on their drives ?
    Guy never said part number of his drive not sure; could be old servostar (20 yrs?) or newer CD style (15?). In anycase, we have had step/dir since about our first digital servos, so around 1989-ish (25 yrs?)

  11. #11
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    Re: Kollmorgen S Series A/C Servo drives: How do I connect them for Mach 3 Step/Direc

    "remote" encoder means an external pulse generator, as opposed to motor feedback. this is usually handwheel or "encoder following" a master motor, but step and direction is basically "the same" type of data. the drive just needs to know what to do with it. maybe that explanation makes more sense my 1985ish indramat AC drives actually have this despite being otherwise completely analogue. unfortunately they don't know how to interpret step and direction as mach3 does it, but its a feature that could be exploited without much effort I think.

    in any case, I was looking at some servostar s600 drives today, and wondered the same thing. couldn't quite figure out from the manual if it had anything besides analogue. it has no add in cards. my plan was using it as a spindle, so analogue may work fine, but if it does step and direction it would be easier.
    wotzBotz

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    Re: Kollmorgen S Series A/C Servo drives: How do I connect them for Mach 3 Step/Direc

    same as our other drives, just pick it from pull down menus....
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Drive - Gearing 1001.jpg  

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    Re: Kollmorgen S Series A/C Servo drives: How do I connect them for Mach 3 Step/Direc

    ha, yes, I found that in the manual shortly after posting. me silly.

    I did also notice that on this drive, the incremental encoder feedback is on the same pins. perhaps ive misread. are they mutually exclusive?
    wotzBotz

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    Re: Kollmorgen S Series A/C Servo drives: How do I connect them for Mach 3 Step/Direc

    Quote Originally Posted by ihavenofish View Post
    ha, yes, I found that in the manual shortly after posting. me silly.

    I did also notice that on this drive, the incremental encoder feedback is on the same pins. perhaps ive misread. are they mutually exclusive?
    Had to repost your message as it was totally unreadable do to dam truck ad covering it up again!

    As you read manual you will see X1 & X2 are for your main motor feedback. X5 is indeed mutually exclusive to the 3 possibilities listed on diagram (encoder input, master or slave input, step/dir input). So if you wanted to do step/dir AND use a linear scale for the position loop feedback and motor encoder for commutation/current-loop/velocity-loop, you cannot.

    Wow, there foes that ad again! sometimes it is not worth messing here.

  15. #15
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    Re: Kollmorgen S Series A/C Servo drives: How do I connect them for Mach 3 Step/Direc

    thanks. the motor itself has a resolver, which I was going to replace as I didn't think it would be adequate for tapping/indexing (maybe wrong). the replacement is either a renco optical encoder with built in halls, or a AMS magnetic incremental encoder, also with halls.

    .
    wotzBotz

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    Re: Kollmorgen S Series A/C Servo drives: How do I connect them for Mach 3 Step/Direc

    Quote Originally Posted by ihavenofish View Post
    thanks. the motor itself has a resolver, which I was going to replace as I didn't think it would be adequate for tapping/indexing (maybe wrong). the replacement is either a renishaw optical encoder with built in halls, or a AMS magnetic incremental encoder, also with halls.

    .
    "MAYBE WRONG" need to change that to "is wrong." No, your motor resolver should be fine for taping/indexing - folks have been doing that for 30 years with em. Would linear scale with .1um resolution be better? maybe, depends on lots of stuff. if you have any backlash between this new encoder and the motor you may be in for more problems that it is worth since you would not be using it for just position control.... I think it is a no brainer to use the resolver you have and get the system running; if you then feel it is not good enough for some reason then consider changing it out.

    comment: get the 1Vpp sign output instead - let's us (the drive mfgr) divide it up and multiply it by lots more to give resolutions in millions/billions - all for free. And AMS is not ams encoder.

  17. #17
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    Re: Kollmorgen S Series A/C Servo drives: How do I connect them for Mach 3 Step/Direc

    Quote Originally Posted by mike_Kilroy View Post
    "MAYBE WRONG" need to change that to "is wrong." No, your motor resolver should be fine for taping/indexing - folks have been doing that for 30 years with em. Would linear scale with .1um resolution be better? maybe, depends on lots of stuff. if you have any backlash between this new encoder and the motor you may be in for more problems that it is worth since you would not be using it for just position control.... I think it is a no brainer to use the resolver you have and get the system running; if you then feel it is not good enough for some reason then consider changing it out.
    ah, cool. the resolver im trying to find specs on. its from liton, that's all I know so far. there wasn't a label. this would be the "new" version
    Resolver[controller]=News&tx_news_pi1[action]=detail&tx_news_pi1[news]=32&cHash=e038cb42f32391becc56d5a10055cb9b
    mines a good 15-20 years old.

    edit, ok, that link wont post. cnczone needs to work on their forum software I guess, haha.

    comment: get the 1Vpp sign output instead - let's us (the drive mfgr) divide it up and multiply it by lots more to give resolutions in millions/billions - all for free. And AMS is not ams encoder.
    not sure what that means.

    AMS is Austria microsystems. they make low cost magnetic encoders. 14 bit in this case. quite nice for $15.

    thanks for all the help.
    wotzBotz

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    Re: Kollmorgen S Series A/C Servo drives: How do I connect them for Mach 3 Step/Direc

    Ok, I have been absent for a while trying to reboot. Trying to figure out how to even ask
    what it is I'm needing to know for an answer on how to connect my ac drives for Mach3.

    It is understood that I have RS485 at my C8 connector on top of the drives and that the
    encoder input can also be used for STEP/DIR with drives set for POSITION MODE. But
    how to wire it for that is still something that I have not done before. Not even on a stepper.
    I'm plenty capable, just no experience.

    Seems there are 2 different kinds of people on this forum, talking about those that are
    either really smart or really lost (as I am) and there is no-one in between to translate
    for either side.

    My apologies the drives are located deep within my control cabinet and do not have any
    visible markings other than what I have provided. All indications are it is a Kollmorgen
    ServoStar S series
    . Does not resemble the CD series, however the books that I was
    given with the machine (files attached to original post) are for both S and CD series
    ServoStar drives. Guessing my drives to be year 2000/2001 as that is the build date of
    my machine and the provided manuals seem to point to 1998 to 2003.

    Perhaps the model number is on a name plate underneath the drive. ??? A lot to move
    and disassemble. Was hoping to avoid that as there was not a whole lot in the manual
    that shows to exclude certain models of the S series that I have seen.

    Questions are still -

    • Do I need three pins for ENABLE, STEP & DIRECTION on each drive?
    • If so which 3 pins from C8 will be used and how to connect them?


    PIN 1 - A
    PIN 2 - A
    PIN 3 - (NC)
    PIN 4 - B
    PIN 5 - B
    PIN 6 - (CABLE SHIELD ?)
    PIN 7 - (NC)
    PIN 8 - I
    PIN 9 - I


    I know the below diagram must be wrong. But I am posting what I have learned from
    the collective brain trust here and in various online forums that I must connect it all
    similar to the below diagram to get it to work... Although I am scared to do this as I
    deeply feel it is wrong to run with 2 drives per axis. But do not know as it appears
    the only way to turn the STEP/DIR/ENABLE to A /A B /B I /I type outputs for my
    C8 connector.

    Can someone please point me in the right direction?

  19. #19
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    Re: Kollmorgen S Series A/C Servo drives: How do I connect them for Mach 3 Step/Direc

    the signal is differential. youd need to read the manual, but basically, the step "high" (a+) is relative to the a-. on most drives you can just tie a- to ground. likewise b- would be direction ground. I is enable, and again is the same principle.

    SOME drives however want a proper inverting (+-) differential signal and basically wont work directly with mach3 parallel port signals. youll need to read the manual.

    note that as we mentioned above, some of the servostar amps can do step and direction OR quadrature encoder feedback, but not both at the same time.
    wotzBotz

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    Re: Kollmorgen S Series A/C Servo drives: How do I connect them for Mach 3 Step/Direc

    Ok, so IF my drives dont need proper inverting then I need to wire it like this ....

    PIN 1 - A - to STEP
    PIN 2 - A - TO GROUND
    PIN 3 - (NC)
    PIN 4 - B - to DIRECTION
    PIN 5 - B - to GROUND
    PIN 6 - (CABLE SHIELD ?)
    PIN 7 - (NC)
    PIN 8 - I - to ENABLE
    PIN 9 - I - to GROUND

    Ithe they do need proper inverting and will not work with Mach3, what is my next step?
    Is there a peice of hardware that will allow the interface?
    Could you take a look at my manual and tell me one way or another?

    some of the servostar amps can do step and direction OR quadrature encoder feedback, but not both at the same time.
    Is 'quadrature encoder feedback' something that I need to look into?
    What is it?

    As I mentioned before my servos are using resolvers and I see that Mach3 does not like resolvers.
    However my drives have an output port for encoder compatible feedback. Does that help my case?

    Thank you. No Fish

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