[Oldboy]

Yes I know this qestion is ask alot.
Since I will be using X2 super modified mill & super mod HF lathe.
I thought this should be the right form to ask my fellow users.
I paid for lic. mach 3 & Lazy cam ect.
So I was thinking of TurboCAD 14 PRO.
And just use Lazy cam & later get the TurboCAM 14.
If i understand this TurboCAD will only export 2.5D files to a cam program?

BoBcad cam V21 " is on sale for 495.00". Not sure what you realy get for the money?
Will export 3DCAM files?
Will Mach handle the 3D?
So to give a few examples of what I want to do with my mill/lathe.
Mill out say screw type pump, propellers,Mill Threading inside & out.
Lathe used as 4th Axis. And lathe used to Taper,Boring,Threading inside & out. Mostly what a normal lathe will do.
So if you are using BOB CAD CAM V21 or TURBO CAD/CAM.
What are you able to do with it running in mach?

[BrassBuilder]

If you went the TurboCad route, I would get version 12 off of ebay for about $200. That will also get you the CAM package too. From what I remember, version 14 is about $1500 plus the CAM software. I'm still drawing stuff in TurboCad. I have not used the CAM software yet.

I also downloaded BobCad/Cam. I saw it was on sale and thought I would give it a try. I don't have any advice on it yet as I have not used it enough to try to even remotely figure it out.

Mostly I am using Dolphin Cad/Cam for my machining software. It works pretty good, but it does not have the drawing features like TC Pro does.

Mike

[Oldboy]

Hi BrassBuilder
Thank you for the info.
It sounds like from all I have read on the subject. Is that TurboCAD is a much better CAD software than the BOBCAD program.
But I allso learn that the CAM is better in the BABCAM than TurboCAM.
Now I can get BOBcad/cam V21 for $495.00 & Tubocad/cam 14 PRO for about $500.00 So I hope some one using BOB cadcam V21.
Would tell me more about how it works for them?

[Hokan]

I've been lurking for awhile, but I'm kind of in the same spot as you Oldboy... In the starting phase of just getting the gear & software together.

I have TurboCAD Deluxe 12 & 15. I've never had a decent sale offer on the higher end versions of TurboCAD & the Deluxe's just frustrated me due to reduced functionality/disabled features.

I tried the BobCADv22 demo and within 72 hours was relentlessly hounded by a member of their sales staff. I finally got rude with the BobCAD/CAM people to get them to quit calling/emailing. I got a $350 price quote for an 'open demo box for a software convention' after the salesman, who didn't even cover the phone completely or hit mute, when he said to his boss "I've got a guy on the hook and think I can get him to bite, is it ok to do the $350 demo deal?" This coupled with all the negative posts in the BobCAD forum, I decided to keep clear of them & their software. But you should be able to get a better price than the $500 quote for V21 if I got $350 for V22... as their saleman kept telling me "we want it in every hobbyist household"

I then tried Alibre for a week & I just purchased Alibre Design Expert. I wasn't even contacted by their sales staff for nearly a week after I downloaded it (which was nice). I was impressed with it for what I knew I'd be doing project wise and looked at is as not having to buy a separate CAM program & worry about compatibility issues. I think the free training offer portion I got expired last friday (or it may be the 15th), but its still on sale through the end of the month. I got the Expert level for 1300 (this includes 3 axis cam) with 4 months online training access, cd training set, & 1 hour 1-on-1 support with the year software maintenance fee. Sale was Expert 997.50 , Pro level $895 , and standard $695. I found a few posts here and on another board that the Alibre CAM was decent & worked with Mach3, but nothing really more specific. I may pick up copy of Rhino3D eventually if I run into needing to do some more advanced modeling, cleanup or rendering.

So I've got the CAD software to be able to start learning it & my plan is to purchase a CNC ready Taig, Mach3 software, Gecko controller setup, & steppers over the next few months.... All for home/hobby use to make brackets, etc for my mopar restoration and replica movie/tv prop stuff I'm into.

Good luck on sorting through your software choices, there seems to be plenty of choices out there in varying price ranges... just have to know what you want to do & find out if the software will do it.

-Allan

[Oldboy]

Hi Hokan
Yup! I heard BOBCADCAM will hound you to death with phone calls.
Sounds like they wanted to get you hook on some software that might not be the full meal deal. Making you purchase more if you wanted it to do all a full pro version would do.
Well im not sure if Turbocad/cam 14 will do 4th axis?
But for what I need; it sure is looking good for the price.
V14 will do inside & out mill threading.
Alibre software & other nice pro software is just too high in price for this poor man.
Say Hokan if all the features of your Turbocad software work.
Would you like it then?
And if I was you; think of getting a larger mill in the size of a X3.
You won't be sorry.
Im doing a modified X2. By the time im done it would have cost me only about $200 less.
Than if I would have just purchase a X3. But then again I would not be able to show off my X2 mod handy work. Pluss it would be a one of a kind.

[LeeWay]

You can get into Turbocad pro much cheaper than stated. What I did was get the pro version of 11.2 off Ebay for like $49.95. Then I upgraded to 14.2 for $199.00. It is quite capable software on the cad side. While I am still learning it, there are some nice tutorials available that really makes both the 2D and 3D side easy to use. Some of the more intricate stuff I haven't used yet like lofting splines and threads. I figure when I do, it won't take long to figure out.

I use Sheetcam and I have Meshcam, but don't use it much. If I ever quit building cnc machines, I might be able to afford the Vcarve packages. That is the plan anyway.

[Hokan]

I don't have any issues besides the reduced functionality with my Deluxe editions of TurboCAD & them being minimalistic in software feature discriptions. The only reference to the CAM plug-in axis capabilities that I could find was that it was 2.5D and that was on Wikipedia with a "(2002)" date behind it so I'm sure that's outdated info... at least I would hope its been upgraded since.

I went with Alibre & the added-cost simply due to the all-in-1 of it including the full 3-axis CAM, sheet metal design features (big plus for me), machinist/engineers toolboxes w/Algor & motion simulation. Alibre seemed to be the most upfront about all the features & listing them. I'm all for doing product research before purchase about other peoples experiences, issues etc.... but for base software feature lists I shouldn't have to hunt (like for TurboCAD's cam plug-in axis capability).

As far as me going with the Taig. I'm to the point where my shop is going to start busting at the seams if I go bigger, & the Taigs seem to hold their resale value so upgrading is an option if I ever move or expand the shop for more space. I've even had to reduce the size of my E-wheel plans after getting my Grandpa's old Southbend lathe & I'm not sure yet where the final place for the 50 inch slip roll will be that I just got in.... lol, that's how short of space my shop is.

[cjdavis618]

Hi Hokan
Alibre software & other nice pro software is just too high in price for this poor man.

One thing about Alibre, If you ask, they will finance the purchase price of the software over 12 months with no interest. They have sales quotas like everyone else and realize how big the hobby market is. They threw in Maintenance and also the video training library for free on my purchase.


I have bought the Expert package for the cad and the basic cam. Then I went back and bought the Expert Cam.I love the software. Also, If you Buy Alibre cam, the Upgrade prices apply at Mecsoft for the Visual Mill product. (Alibre Cam is just Visual Mill 5 Bundled) Version 6 is a very nice product as well.

[philbur]

I've been running TurboCadCam version 11.3 for 2 years now. Its only 2.5D but works great because it's a fully integrated CAD/CAM package. I don't think the company are too big into the Cam part so development in this area is very slow (read none existent). It also has a lathe module but I haven't used this to date.

I am looking to upgrade to 3D and 4th axis. Alibre Expert + Sprutcam seems to be a low-end way to go for 3D plus 4th axis. With Alibre Express (which is free) + Meshcam seems to be a low-end way to go for 3D.

Just some thoughts
Phil

PS: My experience has been that you can get by with a lot less powerful software than you think you need. A full set of Wizards for Mach3 would probably do 80% of what I need, and with a little ingenuity I could get by on the rest. Also I believe Mach3 now comes with LazyCam, an appropriate name if nothing else.

Start with as cheap as you can find then, when you have some idea of what it is all about and what your needs are, make an informed purchase.

[Oldboy]

Thank you all for the info.
Seems Alibre Software is getting high reviews from REAL PEOPLE.
And I notice most of you seem to be NOT using BOBCADCAM software?
Hmm you all don't like them calling you?
Yes I have my Lic. to Mach3 & Wizards,Lazycam.
But im in need of a good CAD software that will work with Lazycam?
And for now if the CAD package has a CAM to it so much the better.
I gess im wondering if Turbo cad pro software could make a dxf file that Lazycam would acept. And lazycam will do the 4th axis from a Turbocad file?
As you can see I realy don't fully understand how it all works?

[philbur]

My research says that true 4th. axis simultaneous motion (with x, y and z) Cam software is expensive. I believe the latest version of Sprutcam at $1,000 is about the lowest cost option for this alternative and would fit well with Alibre Expert at around $700. It is possible with simple 2.5D Cam, If all you need is 4th axis indexing, to insert the necessary code by hand or alternatively, for continuous motion, "lie" to the machine by producing the code in the y-axis and then making the machine apply this code to the rotary axis, of course you would not then have the y-axis available at the same time. Also the geometry of the part will not be as drawn if you want to cut profiles with a significant depth relative to the diameter.

My understanding is that TurboCad + Lazycam would not necessarily be the best low cost option for 2.5D. Also I don't think Lazycam can do 3D. Alibre Express + Meshcam would give you a reasonable low cost 3D alternative.

So I think your first step is to decide exactly what you mean by 4th axis.

If you plan to eat the elephant one bite at a time then Alibre Express (CAD)would be a good first mouthful. It's free, it's popular and it has lots of upgrade alternatives.

All of the above is my best understanding at the present time so take it for what it is worth.

Phil

Thank you all for the info.
Seems Alibre Software is getting high reviews from REAL PEOPLE.
And I notice most of you seem to be NOT using BOBCADCAM software?
Hmm you all don't like them calling you?
Yes I have my Lic. to Mach3 & Wizards,Lazycam.
But im in need of a good CAD software that will work with Lazycam?
And for now if the CAD package has a CAM to it so much the better.
I gess im wondering if Turbo cad pro software could make a dxf file that Lazycam would acept. And lazycam will do the 4th axis from a Turbocad file?
As you can see I realy don't fully understand how it all works?

[CNC Viking]

Hi everyone,

Maybe this thread is better for this post that I also posted in the "Cam software opinions" poll thread yesterday. My sitiuation does not really justify the mainly high end products discussed there.

I recently bought a VMC (Feeler FV-800 built in Sept. 1996) with Mitsubishi Meldas 520AMR control. I also plan to fit a true 4th axis in the near future.

I will use this machine in my self-employed home-shop business and CAM-programs such as Mastercam are way too expensive for me.

So far I have been looking at:

1. OneCNC XR3 Mill Professional which cost around $ 7 800 in Sweden + a whopping $4 900 for the true 4:th axis module, which I find way too high
No yearly costs. Good selection of imported file types.

2. Dolphin Partmaster Level 3, 3D CAM that cost $ 1 495 in the USA (does anyone know the price in Sweden or nearest agent?). Also can it run the 4:th axis with continius feed machining and not just "indexing" between 3D machining? Any yearly costs? Any imported file type limitations?

3. VisualMILL Professional (PRO) 6.0 with the 4th Axis Module (does anyone know the price in Sweden or nearest agent?). Do I need Visual CAM with this? Any yearly costs? Any imported file type limitations?

MecSoft also confuse me with (parallell?) products such as all the Rhino products. Which are the best? VM or Rhino?

4. Any other CAM recommendations with true 4:th axis capability in affordable price ranges? Preferable below $ 3-4 000. Keep in mind, No yearly costs ang good selection of importable file types.

Regards,
Peter

[DareBee]

A couple of points.
philbur - SprutCAM is not a full 4 axis solution it is only 3 + 1 (positional).

3. VisualMILL Professional (PRO) 6.0 with the 4th Axis Module (does anyone know the price in Sweden or nearest agent?). Do I need Visual CAM with this? Any yearly costs? Any imported file type limitations?

VM6 Pro automatically has 4 axis (it is not an added module).
You can however buy VM6 (standard) and add 4 axis to it.

VisualCAM is more or less a "menu" or "index" where you chose which MecSoft program you wish to run (if you have more than one of their products). So VisualCAM is no additional cost and is automatically included with any purchase of MecSoft.

There are NO yearly costs, SPs and tech support are free.

It will not import EVERY file type, what specifically are you interested in?

MecSoft also confuse me with (parallell?) products such as all the Rhino products. Which are the best? VM or Rhino?

Rhino has nothing to do with MecSoft (sort of).
Rhino is a CAD program that has decided it wanted to provide it's customers with CAM. MecSoft provided some sort of version of VM to them that they integrated as a plug-in. I do not know it's capabilities.

IMO a program designed specifically for CAM will do the BEST CAM with the most features.

What does "best" mean to you?

If you already have great CAD why would you pay for another program with CAD when what you want is CAM?

As mentioned above AlibreCAM uses VM5 as it's plug-in. VM5 was great but VM6 is better.

[CNC Viking]

Thank you DareBee for the VM/Rhino information.

I knew about the VM6 Pro and 4:th axis. Just did not know how Visual CAM worked or was packaged.

It is good that there are no yearly fees. What about Postprocessors? What does "User Customizable Post-Processor Generator" mean?

What is the price for a VM 6.0 Pro-seat at your location?

I have seen their list now and I think it is OK, but it is a shame that they charge extra for such obvious format as Solidworks. Do you know the extra cost for this?

OK, I can read between the lines that VM is the choice over Rhino if you already have a 3D CAD solution.

[DareBee]

Pricing can't be much easier than this http://www.mecsoft.com/Mec/Store/store.shtml Can it?
You may have to buy from a reseller because you are outside of NA but I don't know.

Every variable of the post processor can be customized.
There are these http://www.mecsoft.com/Mec/Downloads/posts.shtml on the site.
And if you have difficulties support will walk you through customizing the post and/or change it for you.

The SW converter works great and it costs extra because MecSoft has to pay licensing fees to use the Parasolid kernal.

I just used igs or stl in version 4 and version 5 (with no issues) but bought the SW plugin when I upgraded to version 6.

[CNC Viking]

Thanks again DareBee,

Sorry for not looking more carefully for already available info on MecSoft's website.

I see that whenever there is a 4:th axis involved, the pricing gets considerably stiffer and $ 3 999 + 499 for SW module is close to my "ouch-point".

I also looked at their Postprocessor service which I found very honest, straightforward and more importantly - it's a 2-way street.

They have a reseller in Sweden, so now I will ask for a quote for VM 6.0 Pro + Solidworks module.

BR,
Peter

[cjdavis618]

My understanding is that Rhino cad is the cad program. Then Rhino cam is simply rebranded Cam software for them, much like Alibre Cam.

Visual Cam is more of a platform for the Mecsoft software to install various "plugins" to. Meaning that Visual cam is installed first which gives you very minor cad functions. Then you can add Visual Mill, Visual turn and Visual Art. Each of these require Visual cam to operate.

At this point, I have purchased Alibre Expert with Alibre Cam expert, and also purchased the Visual Mill 6 standard. The only thing I am missing at this point is 4th axis pocketing. But I have worked around that.

Mecsoft and Alibre support is top notch.


Also, Alibre announced a price increase on it's products through E-mail this week. If anyone wants to look at the software, and possibly purchase it. It would be a good idea to at least contact a sales person and maybe then you can get the better price if the purchase is made after the price change.

They have held over sales prices for me and threw in items on my purchase. They are negotiable. Just not pushy like bobcad.

[DareBee]

I know what you mean by "ouch point".
But compared to other CAM with the same capabilities you are still saving 50% not to mention the maintenance fees.

You have SW, you know what I mean, it hurts $ to use the good stuff.

VM has really knocked my socks off. It could easily be doubled in price and would still sell (just don't tell MecSoft).

[CNC Viking]

I know what you mean by "ouch point".
But compared to other CAM with the same capabilities you are still saving 50% not to mention the maintenance fees.

You have SW, you know what I mean, it hurts $ to use the good stuff.

VM has really knocked my socks off. It could easily be doubled in price and would still sell (just don't tell MecSoft).

Don't have SW, but soon I need to look at something to do my own 3D models in. I just figure I must have the SW module already from start in order to work with customer's files. SW is quite common in my area.

[cjdavis618]

Here are the file types that Visual Mill can Import. (smaller image)

Also I added the types that Alibre can export.