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  1. #1

    Mach3/PWM/C11G Issues & Stepper Motor Jolts

    I'm hopeful and thankful in advance for any help provided. I have a few issues after setting up a new C11G in my system.

    My Current Setup
    ==============
    - Custom 4 axis CNC machine with stepper motors
    - Mach 3
    - Huanyang VFD and 2.2KW Water-cooled spindle (220V)
    - C11G Controller through parallel port and UC100 USB to Parallel Port converter

    Issue #1
    -----------
    I followed this PDF guide (https://www.cnc4pc.com/pub/media/pro...s/WS_90_V2.pdf) to set up the Huanyang VFD with the C11G and am able to successfully turn the spindle on/off through Mach3, so relay is working correctly I believe. However, I seem unable to change the speed of the spindle from Mach3. From the default screenset in Mach3 (Program Run tab) I go to the lower right hand corner to the "Spindle Speed" section and click the up/down arrows and see the SRO% increase, but no change on the actual spindle speed. I loaded the default C11G XML profile from this guide (https://www.cnc4pc.com/pub/media/pro...or_Mach3_1.pdf). I have also changed PD002 on the VFD to "1" to test, and when that happens, I am unable to even start the VFD from Mach3. I hear the relay click, but the spindle stays OFF. Toggling PD002 back to "0" allows me again to turn the spindle on/off but no speed change from Mach3. I believe this last issue is related to the below thoughts.

    As a way to troubleshoot, I decided to measure the voltage across the 0-10V terminal and the immediately adjacent GNDA terminal with a multimeter to see if maybe I wasn't getting good voltage from the C11G. And I think the issue is THERE. When the spindle is toggled ON via Mach3, the relay clicks and I see ~0.61VDC – 0.63VDC coming from the terminals, and when the spindle is OFF, the voltage is 0. Turning the little white screw/pot above the terminals to fine-tune the voltage ONLY changes the voltage about +/- 0.2VDC. Adjusting the spindle speed from Mach3 doesn't change the voltage at all. In short, I seem unable to get even close to 1V across those terminals, not to mention 10V. So it's no wonder that I can't even turn on my spindle, since the voltage provided by the board is so tiny.

    I am wondering if something in Mach3 is not set up correctly? I am happy to provide screenshots or details of any/all Mach3 settings. I have verified that I am correctly supplying 12VDC to the 12V terminal and the GNDA terminal, FWIW. That 12V power supply does not share it's negative wire with anything but the VFD that goes to the GNDA port, and the 12V power supply is rated at 1.3A.

    Issue #2
    -----------
    After hooking up the C11G, a strange new issue has started with my X & Y axis jogging. In short, when I press the RIGHT/LEFT or UP/DOWN arrows on my keyboard, the stepper motors JOLT and almost "jump" a few steps. If I hold the keys down, the steppers jolt/jump and then smooth out as they traverse the distance. They jump again when I release the arrow keys. Video of the issue is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljk5YZgPnWY

    Before the C11G I had a basic parallel port breakout board (similar to this: https://cnc4pc.com/c13-basic-breakout-board.html) and never had issues with the jogging of the X&Y axis. FWIW, I don't have any jolts in the jogging of the Z axis neither with the basic BoB, nor with the C11G. I am certain it is just a matter of configuring something in either Mach3 or changing something on the stepper motor driver switches (little white switches in my attached pictures), but I don't know where to start to troubleshoot this.

    Unrelated (or maybe related in some strange way) to the above, is that on initial configuration, the X&Y jogging was reversed when pressing the arrows keys. I went into Mach3 and changed the Dir LowActive to ON/CHECKED and that swapped the direction of jogging. I hope that is correct.

    Thank you again for all help.

  2. #2
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    Re: Mach3/PWM/C11G Issues & Stepper Motor Jolts

    Your set up looks nice.

    Here are some thoughts about the issues you are seeing with the spindle:
    - The idea is that you see a 0 to 10vdc which is proportional to the commanded speed. If you command the spindle to go at full speed, you will see 10vdc. If you command it to go at half the speed, you will see +5vdc, and so forth.
    - You should also see the LED for pin 14 light proportionally to the commanded speed.
    - Make sure you configure the spindle to be driven with PWM at a frequency of 1000hz. Check this in the UC100 Plugin.
    - Make sure you are using pins 14 and 16 for step and direction of the spindle.
    - Make sure you are not using those pins anywhere else in your setup.
    - Make sure you disable the spindle relays, as the C11G will control the spindle.
    - Make sure you set the spindle motor tuning to be at max velocity and acceleration.
    - Make sure you set the pulley to 0 at min and set the max spindle speed you will have.
    - You should also hear the relays clicking when you command the spindle to start.
    Considering what you are reporting, it makes me think the motor tuning may be off, the pulleys not set, or not using PWM for the spindle.

    About the violent motor motion: Did you check the motor acceleration? Try lowering the motor acceleration. Test this while commanding them with MDI gcode commands, at different speeds.

    Arturo Duncan
    https://cnc4pc.com

  3. #3

    Re: Mach3/PWM/C11G Issues & Stepper Motor Jolts

    Arturo, thank you! A combination of your suggestions worked and now both the jolt issue and the PWM issues are fixed and I can start and change spindle speed with Mach3!

    Only 2 lingering issues remain:

    (1) My spindle maxes out at 24,000RPM. I set the motor pulley to account for this. When I set spindle speed/RPM to 12,000 (S12000) I get ~4.7VDC vs 5VDC (I fine-tuned to 10VDC @ 24,000 RPM). Is there somewhere in Mach 3 I can fine-tune that 5VDC (and other RPM<>VDC values) so I am closer to correct frequency on the VFD and proper RMP to VDC matching?

    (2) I am unable to run my spindle CCW, though I set up the wiring correctly. When I command Mach 3 with M04, the relays click and I see LEDs that correspond to the middle relay and the right relay (vs the left relay and the right relay for CW rotation), so I think the C11G is working correctly. It's most likely a VFD setting issue and I will research that, but I thought I would ask you just in case you may know.

    Again, thank you for your help and suggestions.

  4. #4
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    Re: Mach3/PWM/C11G Issues & Stepper Motor Jolts

    I am glad to see you making progress.

    1) Spindle Speed Linearity:
    - Make sure the spindle pulley has the min velocity set at 0 and the max at 24,000.
    - Make also sure that the spindle under motor tuning is set to work at max velocity and acceleration.
    - There is a graph in the manual that tells you what to expect in terms of spindle speed linearity.
    - You can also play with different PWM frequency values. The C11G expects a value between 300 and 1000hz.
    - You can also tune the motor with the on-board potentiometer or adjusting the max motor velocity under motor tuning.

    2) Direction control:
    - Is your VFD set to take direction using US or INTernational Mode? US is one input set to FOR and REV and INT is On input for ON/OFF and the second one CW/CCW?
    - The C11G has a jumper to set the relay sequence to be US or INT.
    - You can also configure the VFD to use US or INT.
    - You can test the VFD with a jumper cable, to confirm how it is working.

    Arturo Duncan
    https://cnc4pc.com

  5. #5
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    Re: Mach3/PWM/C11G Issues & Stepper Motor Jolts

    Kirill,

    How did it go?

    Arturo Duncan
    https://cnc4pc.com

  6. #6

    Talking Re: Mach3/PWM/C11G Issues & Stepper Motor Jolts

    Quote Originally Posted by arturod View Post
    Kirill,

    How did it go?

    Arturo Duncan
    https://cnc4pc.com
    I got it all to work! Thank you!

    I fine-tuned the pot on the board to output max voltage and that calibrated 12000 RPM to about 5v. The board outputs about 10.5v at 24000, but my VFD caps out at 400hz so that extra voltage doesn't overrun the spindle. Problem seems solved for now.

    As for the reverse spin, turns out my VFD was programmed for INT mode, and once I modified the jumpers on the board, everything started working as expected! Thank you for your advice.

    I think I am finally all set! Thank you for the superb customer service!

  7. #7
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    Re: Mach3/PWM/C11G Issues & Stepper Motor Jolts

    Quote Originally Posted by kirillminiaev View Post
    I got it all to work! Thank you!

    I fine-tuned the pot on the board to output max voltage and that calibrated 12000 RPM to about 5v. The board outputs about 10.5v at 24000, but my VFD caps out at 400hz so that extra voltage doesn't overrun the spindle. Problem seems solved for now.

    As for the reverse spin, turns out my VFD was programmed for INT mode, and once I modified the jumpers on the board, everything started working as expected! Thank you for your advice.

    I think I am finally all set! Thank you for the superb customer service!
    I'm having the same issues with my setup can you share pics of your c41s board and you mach3 settings please

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael82 View Post
    I'm having the same issues with my setup can you share pics of your c41s board and you mach3 settings please
    When you say same issues, which issues are you specifically having? That way I can try to help. Also, I have the C11G, not the C41S, board for what it’s worth.

  9. #9
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    Re: Mach3/PWM/C11G Issues & Stepper Motor Jolts

    The C41S and C11G use the same circuits and the configuration would be the same if using the same software and pins. Michael82, you should be able to get the system to work by carefully following the info in this thread.

    Arturo Duncan
    https://cnc4pc.com

  10. #10
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    Re: Mach3/PWM/C11G Issues & Stepper Motor Jolts

    Quote Originally Posted by kirillminiaev View Post
    When you say same issues, which issues are you specifically having? That way I can try to help. Also, I have the C11G, not the C41S, board for what it’s worth.
    The same issues meaning I can get my spindle to come on but it will not turn off by mdi commands, I can type s500m3 in mdi and the spindle comes on but at 22000 rpms and when I type m5 to turn it off it does nothing so I hit reset and it shuts it off. So I'm getting the spindle to come on just not at the desired rpm. I have the same exact vfd /spindle and I am using mach3 as well I just have a different spindle board but they work in the same way . I can't seem to get someone to walk me thru my setup like you were able to get so any help is greatly appreciated

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael82 View Post
    The same issues meaning I can get my spindle to come on but it will not turn off by mdi commands, I can type s500m3 in mdi and the spindle comes on but at 22000 rpms and when I type m5 to turn it off it does nothing so I hit reset and it shuts it off. So I'm getting the spindle to come on just not at the desired rpm. I have the same exact vfd /spindle and I am using mach3 as well I just have a different spindle board but they work in the same way . I can't seem to get someone to walk me thru my setup like you were able to get so any help is greatly appreciated
    Have you measured the voltage across the PWM terminals on your board to make sure you are getting voltage between 0 & 10-ish volts and that that voltage changes when you give different S commands to Mach 3? That was my issue...I wasn’t giving correct S commands and so I wasn’t seeing a voltage change. Also, if you have a UC100, it comes with a handy monitor plugin view in Mach 3 which shows which pina are receiving which data from Mach 3.

    Lastly, your VFD might not be set to accept speed changes from Mach 3. That is one of the P settings. I followed this tutorial on YouTube (both part 1 and 2) and the P settings on the VFD really helped!

    https://youtu.be/1sf2zLQu5CU

    https://youtu.be/jVirHq2kHKU

  12. #12
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    Re: Mach3/PWM/C11G Issues & Stepper Motor Jolts

    Quote Originally Posted by kirillminiaev View Post
    I got it all to work! Thank you!

    I fine-tuned the pot on the board to output max voltage and that calibrated 12000 RPM to about 5v. The board outputs about 10.5v at 24000, but my VFD caps out at 400hz so that extra voltage doesn't overrun the spindle. Problem seems solved for now.

    As for the reverse spin, turns out my VFD was programmed for INT mode, and once I modified the jumpers on the board, everything started working as expected! Thank you for your advice.

    I think I am finally all set! Thank you for the superb customer service!
    Depending on the manufacture of your spindle some are not reverse-able or you can expect it to fail so unless you really need to reverse your spindle, for some odd cutters don't do it
    Mactec54

  13. #13
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    Re: Mach3/PWM/C11G Issues & Stepper Motor Jolts

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael82 View Post
    The same issues meaning I can get my spindle to come on but it will not turn off by mdi commands, I can type s500m3 in mdi and the spindle comes on but at 22000 rpms and when I type m5 to turn it off it does nothing so I hit reset and it shuts it off. So I'm getting the spindle to come on just not at the desired rpm. I have the same exact vfd /spindle and I am using mach3 as well I just have a different spindle board but they work in the same way . I can't seem to get someone to walk me thru my setup like you were able to get so any help is greatly appreciated
    You have most likely a programming problem as if you have a high speed spindle ( Chinese ) then it has a minimum speed of 6000RPM, so trying to run it at 500 RPM is asking for it to fail
    Mactec54

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