[carbidecraters]

To me it means mfg'ed and built in the USA. I know now that alot of things that say made in the USA are really imported parts assembled in the USA. I hope the steel tarrifs on imports are helping our mills. I have seen much go across the seas. I was at a tool show and their was a booth with a rep for overseas mfg'ing....WHAT THE HELL!!!!!!! :devious: Not cool....what was this guy doing at a place where we pick up machinery and try to make payments while our jobs are going overseas....





ranting and raving :wee:

[MIKE JEFFERS]

sadly it's the same in the u.k. (blame the shareholders)
mike

[ghyman]

I didn't see any differences with the steel...
I've spent the past year and a half trying to get: L-605 (Haynes 25), 446 stainless, and 430FR stainless bar stock, and every supplier continued to tell me that there is none available. (It all became available a month ago).
Seems to me that if a tarrif is going to work, then the products should be available in the country that is trying to cut imports!
As far as 'made in america', that's a joke... our aerospace components are 'made in america' on Japanese machines (star, citizen, mori) with israeli tools (iscar), and programmed on a computer made with taiwanese hardware (all). And if I have to call an american distributer (asus) for help, the american (california) who answers barely speaks english, which is OK since the connection is so poor. And if I try to get my phone service checked (MCI), then I get customer service from India, but only during normal business hours *in america,* which means it's 3:00 AM in the customer service center! And at the end of the day, when I sit down to watch the news on TV, and the American-installed satellite service is out AGAIN (Dish network), the customer service person who can't help me is the SAME GUY WHO ANSWERS THE CALLS TO THE PHONE COMPANY!!! :boxing:
Harley-davidson and Briggs & Stratton used to be the only truly American-made products (other than crayola crayons), but they're now being made in Mexico.
I think the standard of living in this country is WAY out of whack with the rest of the world, and the manufacturing industry is taking most of the hits.
It's sad that the manager of a Target store is making more than the production manager of an aerospace supplier!
rant, rant, rant, rant... now I'm in a pissy mood!!

[MIKE JEFFERS]

yet again same in the u.k.

[sbrpollock]

UHM.....

The Steel Tariffs Were Lifted A Year Or So Ago (December 4 2003). And Are No Longer In Effect.

The high prices and low supply we are experiencing right now are due to China's unbelievably high rate of consumption. It seems for the last two or so years they have been buying nearly more steel than the rest of the world combined.

Also, when those tarrifs were in effect, they did not apply to "every" steel product. There were specific rolled plate and sheet products that were tarrifed. I doubt any stainless products or bar products were being tarrifed.

[murphy625]

The one that gets me is the unemployeed person who is complaining they dont have a job and can't pay the bills.
After the complaning, they drive home in a toyota...
When a new applicant comes to my business, one of the first things I do is check to see what they are driving..

Murphy

[cadman]

When a new applicant comes to my business, one of the first things I do is check to see what they are driving..

Murphy

Simply ignorant. Passing judgment based on what they drive. If a highly qualified individual came driving up in a Toyota and a person who couldn't rub two sticks together drives up in a Ford F150 plastered with American flag stickers, which one are you are going to hire?

[cbass]

How does it go?

"You meet the nicest people on a Honda" (motorcycle ad).

Its true, even I drive a Honda! Its the best purchase I've ever made. It sips fuel and will run for well over 200,000 + Miles without changing engines. Nothing made in the states comes close.

Judgements based on peoples' choice of cars are not very reliable.

[mxtras]

From what I have heard, the amazing rate of steel consumption in China is due to 5 huge dam construction projects in that country. I understand that they expect to consume worldwide steel production for many more years to come until they complete these dams. (reinforcing bar???)

Anyone else heard anything similar?

Steel pricing is rediculous from years past - they first said it was due to a shortage of raw materials - I believe this is B.S. It's false justification to boost profit and recover from financial issues created by elevated (union) wages and increased energy costs... and greed...and revenue lost to China and others.

I try, as a consumer, to steer away from inport products to support the American economy, but corporate America and the general public are driving everything overseas - we are doing it to ourselves and accepting it buy continuing to purchase foreign made products. Trying to find anything that isn't made overseas is getting increasingly difficult. What can we do??????

Discriminating based on vehicle choice? Really? wow.... that's, uhm, extreme. I think it may be illegal, too - but I am not really sure.

Scott

[mxtras]

rant, rant, rant, rant... now I'm in a pissy mood!!

This topic get me pretty irritated, too!

I do not own a single foreign car. I do, however, own several Japanese motorcycles (Yamaha) and I work for a Japanese company, so I guess I can't truley claim to be a part of the solution! Go ahead - call me a hypocrite.

This thread is probably going to get the boot - (wrong)

Scott

[sbrpollock]

Well.....I tried not to.....but now I'm started!

This stuff doesn't anger me, but it does scare me and depress me.

People don't put enough thought into the consequences of how they spend their money.

EXAMPLE 1

One of the hottest topics in the U.S. right now is health care. Everyone is trying to figure out how to get more people covered under some type of health care system; and it is most likely going to end up being some type of governmental program which means it will be a great tax burden.

But wait.....there allready WAS a system working.

There were several industries (Steel in this example) that provided health care for both its employees and its retirees with no burden to the American taxpayer. But here is what happened:

A 22 year old person I'll call imaginary Suzy buys her first car. She looks at cars produced out of American steel and cars produced out of foreign steel. The one produced out of foreign steel costs three thousand dollars less, so she buys it. She thinks she saved three thousand dollars. But, Suzies father lives in northwest Indiana and is a retiree from LTV steel. Now that LTV steel has gone bankrupt, Suzies father lost ALL of his health care benifits and his pension went down by a thousand dollars a month.

So.....Hows that three thousand dollars Suzy saved look now? Suzy now has to help her parents out financially, and some day she's going to be paying higher income taxes to pay for some sort of national health care program!

But Hey.....She saved that three thousand on that car didn't she!

People should have embraced the idea of companies paying for health care and suported them and tried to get more companies to do it.

EXAMPLE 2

Let's say both of my neighbors work in the steel mills (Which they do). I go out and buy a new SUV and I buy one made out of foreign steel because it's five thousand dollars cheaper. Now, the mill both of my neighbors work in closes down and they lose their jobs. After struggling to pay their bills, they both lose their houses in tax auctions or forclosures, or they end up having to sell them really cheap just avoid losing them. When this happens, the property values in my neighborhood are driven down and now my house is worth twenty five thousand dollars less than it was worth just a few years ago.

So.....Did I really save that five thousand?


All the money people "think" they save today eventually comes around to bite them in the rear end further down the road. Then they have the gall and audacity to P_SS and MOAN about it when it happens!

Untill people start seeing that there are long term qonsequences for the way they spend their money, this stuff is going to continue to spiral down the proverbial toilet.

I hate to say it.....The American people are getting exactly what they ask for.....They just don't realise their asking for it.

[murphy625]

Simply ignorant. Passing judgment based on what they drive. If a highly qualified individual came driving up in a Toyota and a person who couldn't rub two sticks together drives up in a Ford F150 plastered with American flag stickers, which one are you are going to hire?

I would not hire either of them.....

I make no judgment of a persons abilities based on what they drive...
I do however make judgments on their economic, physiologic, and environmental views and habits.

I have friends who drive foreign cars.. As a person, I don't care what you drive or even if you drive.
As an employer, I do care.. Most people who don't understand that are not employers but employees.. There's a big difference.

If you show up with an "I LOVE OSAMA" tattoo I am not going to hire you. I don't care how great you think you are. Every other argument on this subject, including but not limited to cars, can be boiled right back down to the osama tattoo statement.

Its my choice.. Its my business that I worked my tail off to build and its my opinion that if you make a habit of sending large amounts our economic dollars over-seas to foreign companies with un-fair trade policies just so you can save yourself a few dollars than thats your business and I don't want it around mine.

Oh.. and just for clarification, I do not have any problem with those foriegn products that come from countries with fair trade policies....
If Canada made cars, I would not have a problem with it...

I understand Germany is very fair with trade also as well as a few other countries..

This is going to turn into a long thread.. I can see it now... Its a touchy subject so I will say in advance that I respect your opinions even if I dont agree with them..

Murphy

[sbrpollock]

And Oh Yes.....

I drive an American car back and forth to work that gets thirty two miles to the gallon, has every option you can imagine, is comfortable, is ten years old without a speck of rust, and has 265,000 miles on it with no repairs other than maintenance and 1 alternator. Oh, I only paid $14,000 for it new in '95. Yes American companies DO build comparable product!

[WayneHill]

If Canada made cars, I would not have a problem with it...
Murphy

They do.



The company I work for uses CNC machinery built in the US. Hardinge, HAAS and Mazak are made in USA....right? We use domestic USA/Canada steels because the China/ASIA import stuff is crap. Since the parts we make go into aircraft and medcal components, there cannot be any substitute for quality. We also EXPORT medical parts to Europe and bring their money back to the USA

[mxtras]

Why don't American cars compare favorably to Toyota, Honda....even Kia (jeesh!) in the American market?

Longevity. A Honda will quietly get superior economy for considerably longer that an equivalent American car. Period. Absolutely no doubt about that. WHY??? Are the people at Honda just smarter than the folks at the American companies? I seriously doubt it - but why are they so much more desirable to the American public?

Economics, labor unions, OSHA, the EPA, morals, egos - all American traits and constraints. Do you think if these were eliminated that we could compete?

I own a 93 Chevy S-10 Blazer with 263,000 miles on the original engine. My neighbor has a Toyota Four Runner with over 430,000 and it gets better gas mileage, runs quieter with less rattles, burns less oil, has more paint on it...the list goes on. Twice the mileage with half the issues. Similar vehicle - incomparable quality differences. Why?

What can WE do?

Scott

[ger21]

If Canada made cars, I would not have a problem with it...

Not only do they build them, but they build them right across the river in Windsor. And they build plenty of Toyota's and Honda's in the US, just not here in Detroit.

[murphy625]

They do.



The company I work for uses CNC machinery built in the US. Hardinge, HAAS and Mazak are made in USA....right? We use domestic USA/Canada steels because the China/ASIA import stuff is crap. Since the parts we make go into aircraft and medcal components, there cannot be any substitute for quality. We also EXPORT medical parts to Europe and bring their money back to the USA

What car does Canada make???

Also, just to let you know that I envy your company. (whoever they are) Companies that export products are a life line for our economy right now.

Murphy

[murphy625]

Not only do they build them, but they build them right across the river in Windsor. And they build plenty of Toyota's and Honda's in the US, just not here in Detroit.

To my knowledge, they do not build Toyota's or Honda's in the USA...

I realize that they are physically assembled here by a bunch of low wage workers but the engineering, management, bla bla bla (the important jobs) are all still in Japan..

Toyota is Japan
GM is America
Ford is America
BMW is Germany (im not an auto enthusiast so if I am wrong please say)

Please name a Canadian car

Murphy

[mxtras]

The quality that I have seen coming from China lately is seriously impressive - not like it was even 3 years ago. Hard to resist.

I have had numerous Chinese companies contact me with quotations for building my product overseas that would be absolutley impossible to find in North America - less than 68% of what is charged here in the states. 68%!!! That's packaged and delivered and that's a pretty serious advantage.

So as a business owner making a consumer product - what do you do? Do you mire in the American market - and for what reward? To say you're a true American? How many can resist the urge?

I am proud my product is 100% made in the USA...not a SINGLE part made anywhere else - not even the hardware. But for how long?

Scott

[rcazwillis]

How does it go?

"You meet the nicest people on a Honda" (motorcycle ad).

Its true, even I drive a Honda! Its the best purchase I've ever made. It sips fuel and will run for well over 200,000 + Miles without changing engines. Nothing made in the states comes close.

Judgements based on peoples' choice of cars are not very reliable.

My Honda Sabre is assembled in Ohio. That qualifies as "Made in America". Even says so on the steering column. The only argument I would give on quality of other bikes is the Victory. Well built machines.