550,246 active members*
3,083 visitors online*
Register for free
Login
IndustryArena Forum > CNC Electronics > Spindles / VFD > micromaster 440 grounding and other weird issues
Results 1 to 8 of 8
  1. #1
    Registered
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    32

    micromaster 440 grounding and other weird issues

    Hi

    I have a 1,5Kw M440 in my selfmade cnc and it causes crazy problems out of blue now. Basically the machine has been a while unusable because when ever I enable the spindle (by connecting after the startup the front panels pins 5 and 9 if I remember correctly) my controller (Raspberry Pi and Protoneer shield) go crazy. The Protoneer shield just keeps on booting several times a second. If I disconnect the spindle´s 3 cables, no problem.

    Also, if the M440 is grounded as supposed, it blows a fuse (or differential, actually). I measured 39 volts between the ground cable and the chassis (here in Barcelona we have 220V sockets). I have pulled the unit apart twice, but failed to see the problem.

    It is really weird, as this appeared after some month of stand still.

    Yesterday I ordered a brandless VFD to replace this pretty unit, surely would have been clever to ask before.

    Thanks

    -PropellerHat

  2. #2
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    13253

    Re: micromaster 440 grounding and other weird issues

    Quote Originally Posted by PropellerHat View Post
    Hi

    I have a 1,5Kw M440 in my selfmade cnc and it causes crazy problems out of blue now. Basically the machine has been a while unusable because when ever I enable the spindle (by connecting after the startup the front panels pins 5 and 9 if I remember correctly) my controller (Raspberry Pi and Protoneer shield) go crazy. The Protoneer shield just keeps on booting several times a second. If I disconnect the spindle´s 3 cables, no problem.

    Also, if the M440 is grounded as supposed, it blows a fuse (or differential, actually). I measured 39 volts between the ground cable and the chassis (here in Barcelona we have 220V sockets). I have pulled the unit apart twice, but failed to see the problem.

    It is really weird, as this appeared after some month of stand still.

    Yesterday I ordered a brandless VFD to replace this pretty unit, surely would have been clever to ask before.

    Thanks

    -PropellerHat
    Is that a Micromaster 440 VFD Drive??

    It sounds like you have a short in your wiring, check the spindle plug and the cable from the VFD Drive to the Spindle.

    Then check the Spindle motor windings.

    Post some photos of the VFD Drive wiring and the Spindle Wiring.
    Mactec54

  3. #3
    Registered
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    32

    Re: micromaster 440 grounding and other weird issues

    Yeah, it is a VFD to drive a spindle. Wiring checked and rebuilt. Also, I pulled the unit out and connected it only to the mains, and the potential in ground cable remained. Differential unlatched when trying to use with ground cable connected to the chassis.

    I´ve been blasting the internals with air to remove some chips that might be inside, but no help. Also when dissassembling it ( I took it completely apart, all the PCBs out), I found absolutely nothing visible to cause the issues.

  4. #4
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    13253

    Re: micromaster 440 grounding and other weird issues

    Quote Originally Posted by PropellerHat View Post
    Yeah, it is a VFD to drive a spindle. Wiring checked and rebuilt. Also, I pulled the unit out and connected it only to the mains, and the potential in ground cable remained. Differential unlatched when trying to use with ground cable connected to the chassis.

    I´ve been blasting the internals with air to remove some chips that might be inside, but no help. Also when dissassembling it ( I took it completely apart, all the PCBs out), I found absolutely nothing visible to cause the issues.
    Need to see some photos of the wiring, Shield Grounding Etc.

    They are a quality VFD Drive, I would doubt that is where the problem is, unless something caused it has failed
    Mactec54

  5. #5
    Registered
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    32

    Re: micromaster 440 grounding and other weird issues

    Yep, the only professional component in my hobby CNC

    Yesterday managed to put in action the new el Cheapo vfd just to notice that the problems remain. As long as I had the spindle attached to the machine frame (as usual) the control electronics´continuous booting was an issue. So from the body of the spindle something is travelling through the machine frame to the control electronics. That´s funny because I could not measure anything weird going on with the spindle, none of the phases is shorted to the motor body and all the windings measure the same.

    Also, when having the spindle on my table and driving it directly with the new VFD (and new cabling) it stutters in unfamiliar way (like it would be a lot out of balance) and when trying to raise the frequency abowe 18Hz the short circuit fault pops up! Could this be because of some tuning factors? I can´t find any advice about tuning on the Cheapo´s "manual", and with the Siemens I always went "as is" without issues untill now after the longer stand still.

    I also opened the spindle (Italian brand called Teknomotor) to see if there is something visible, but no - the inners look and smell good.

    Frustrating and weird.

  6. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    13253

    Re: micromaster 440 grounding and other weird issues

    Quote Originally Posted by PropellerHat View Post
    Yep, the only professional component in my hobby CNC

    Yesterday managed to put in action the new el Cheapo vfd just to notice that the problems remain. As long as I had the spindle attached to the machine frame (as usual) the control electronics´continuous booting was an issue. So from the body of the spindle something is travelling through the machine frame to the control electronics. That´s funny because I could not measure anything weird going on with the spindle, none of the phases is shorted to the motor body and all the windings measure the same.

    Also, when having the spindle on my table and driving it directly with the new VFD (and new cabling) it stutters in unfamiliar way (like it would be a lot out of balance) and when trying to raise the frequency abowe 18Hz the short circuit fault pops up! Could this be because of some tuning factors? I can´t find any advice about tuning on the Cheapo´s "manual", and with the Siemens I always went "as is" without issues untill now after the longer stand still.

    I also opened the spindle (Italian brand called Teknomotor) to see if there is something visible, but no - the inners look and smell good.

    Frustrating and weird.
    If you ran at the default Parameters, then you could have done some damage to the spindle, even though you could not detect anything wrong, a VFD Drive must have the Parameters set to the Motor Name Plate spec's you only need a rough manual to do this just to know what Parameters to set.

    Need some photos of the wiring, there is something wrong it that area, the stutter sounds like a bad wire connection, or may be a damaged spindle, 18Hz you should not even be able to run in that area, the VFD Drive Parameters are set incorrect if you can, all of these spindles have a minimum speed that they can run, the correct set Parameters prevent damage to the spindle and VFD Drive

    What model # is the Teknomotor Spindle??

    What is the New VFD Drive you have??
    Mactec54

  7. #7
    Registered
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    32

    Re: micromaster 440 grounding and other weird issues

    Oh dear, hopefully I didn´t ruin the Siemens. I thought a quality product would have protection against poor settings. I have been poking them but honestly the user interface is quite complicated, and the terminology too for a non-technician, even with the better operating panel (Advanced OP, if I remember the name correctly).

    4147-B-DB-P-ER20-RH looks like my unit, allthough this might be newer. Specs are the same.

    Wiring is made again, as simple as possible (for this test purpose), hard to believe the problem would be there. Will take photos next week, when getting to the workshop.

    The el Cheapo VFD is a brandless piece of s***, this one: https://www.amazon.es/gp/product/B07...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    Hope to get the Siemens back in the game.

  8. #8
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    13253

    Re: micromaster 440 grounding and other weird issues

    Quote Originally Posted by PropellerHat View Post
    Oh dear, hopefully I didn´t ruin the Siemens. I thought a quality product would have protection against poor settings. I have been poking them but honestly the user interface is quite complicated, and the terminology too for a non-technician, even with the better operating panel (Advanced OP, if I remember the name correctly).

    4147-B-DB-P-ER20-RH looks like my unit, allthough this might be newer. Specs are the same.

    Wiring is made again, as simple as possible (for this test purpose), hard to believe the problem would be there. Will take photos next week, when getting to the workshop.

    The el Cheapo VFD is a brandless piece of s***, this one: https://www.amazon.es/gp/product/B07...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    Hope to get the Siemens back in the game.
    The VFD in the link is ok, the name is ATI-400X I will see if I have a manual for it.

    Your spindle is 1.1Kw 12,000 to 24000 RPM what is on the name plate of the spindle

    Amps
    Pole
    Voltage
    Just take a photo of the motor Name Plate most of the information should be there.
    Mactec54

Similar Threads

  1. Robofil 440 has overtravel issues
    By compuslave in forum General Waterjet
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 05-04-2019, 03:17 AM
  2. Siemens MicroMaster 440 Holding/low rpm torque
    By PropellerHat in forum Spindles / VFD
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 09-10-2017, 09:56 PM
  3. More Grounding Issues
    By ny_racer_xxx in forum DIY CNC Router Table Machines
    Replies: 118
    Last Post: 03-09-2016, 11:28 PM
  4. Weird Z issues
    By Bigtoy302 in forum General Waterjet
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 12-24-2008, 03:24 AM
  5. Siemens Micromaster 440.
    By Aaronem in forum General CNC Machine Related Electronics
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 01-15-2008, 04:11 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •