[pippin88]

Hi Pippin - What are you looking for and I'll see if its out there? Are you concerned CSA and UHPC are not equivalent? The German makers of UHPC machines must be very confident in their product? There must be doubts about EG as well as DIYers don't post cure, use all sorts of epoxy based on cost not performance. The epoxy guys do not produce a specific epoxy for the purpose etc etc. We assume "epoxy" is stable but its probably not, it being a plastic etc.... ??? Peter

Peter,

There is a lot of research and experience with epoxy granite as machine frames. I agree that "epoxy granite" is not all the same and should not be regarded as all the same - depends on mix, epoxy, how it was done etc. But the research is pretty consistent that damping is good, stiffness is 20-30 etc.

Apart from marketing from Durcrete (UHPC) I haven't found much objective research on UHPC or CSA machine tools. In particular CSA.

On paper the CSA manufacturer specs look good. It would be nice to see more paper showing no shrinkage after 180 days, vibration damping in machine tool structure etc...

(Maybe it is because I work in an industry where research and science are very important, but because biology is so complex, results often do not follow first principles / expected outcomes and everything must actually be tested to prove the outcome is as expected).

- - - Updated - - -

Morning All - Well here's the opposite end of the market to Bantam, from Sweden with a 240HP (179kW) spindle. They achieved 16.4 lites per min (1000cubic inches per min)

https://www.aero-mag.com/modig-open-...ecord-attempt/

Peter

Nice find.

They have a moving table version that looks quite similar to what I have envisaged for my mill. Except I would not have 5 Z rails and 2 Y ballscrews...

[peteeng]

Hi Pippin - Just back I posted this. Its shrinkage of HE80 over 56 days. So at 28 days its 553ustrain and at 56 days its 560ustrain. So stable in reality? I plotted the shrink data and it looks flat at 60 days. The chemist said the 1800 day (4.9 years) data is same but not published yet... Got to jump somewhere... Plus if you add aggregate say 50% by V then you halve shrinkage.

Peter?

[ardenum]

A couple of papers on simulation. Don't worry bout the german titles, the contents are in english.

http://www.cae-wiki.info/wikiplus/im...14-1.10.02.pdf
http://www.cae-wiki.info/wikiplus/im...011-1.9.14.pdf
http://www.cae-wiki.info/wikiplus/im...011-1.9.16.pdf
http://www.cae-wiki.info/wikiplus/im...10-2.14.01.pdf
http://www.cae-wiki.info/wikiplus/im...10-2.14.05.pdf

[peteeng]

Thanks Ard - Good material:
The first one is about simplifying the model so it can be solved faster enabling more design cycles
The second one is interesting and covers some topological optimisation. It finds that optimising purely on the static requirements can result in poor dynamic performance. I agree this style of optimisation produces structures with lots of thin ligaments and these vibrate.
No3 covers the usual thermal and vibration stuff
No4 is about creating digital twins that are used for active control of the machine. This means the dynamic response of the machine is controlled in real time...
No5 is about vibration analysis
Some commentary is over 10 years old and current versions of Ansys and other FE systems can analyse what they say can't be done or is complex. These days "multiphysics" analysis is becoming the norm not the difficult. Back then you solved all the thermal. vibration, structural things individually. Now you can solve it all in one go, if you want to.... Peter

[peteeng]

Hi All - huge amount of info on UHPC _ Peter

https://www.uni-kassel.de/upress/onl...ltext.frei.pdf

[ardenum]

Okay so I just got a response from durcrete. Apparently they only sell the cement NANODUR® Compound 5941. You have to get the other parts from the E45/E80 recipe separately, at least they provide the names and weblinks where to get it. The catch is these other companies only sell to other businesses and only big orders.

The E80 ends up being about EUR 300/ton for the whole recipe. Apparently neither the E45 nor E80 recipe requires any filler like steel or alox to reach their properties.

This got a tad more complicated than EG from Rampf, which they sell everything you need in buckets. The issue here is in my case 4 tons would equal EUR 16,000. I do no like that price at all...

Hurdles, hurdles...

durcrete also offer to make the complete part for you... I wonder how much that ends up being.

The recipe is gravel, sand, Compound 5941, PCE, Eclipse Floor/Rheomac 895, water. For E80 you replace gravel and sand with a propriety blend called durigid.

[peteeng]

Hi Ard - Did they direct you to here? small qtys E45 and E80 are you in EU? as they would not ship outside of EU when I enquired... Peter

https://www.moertelshop.eu/

[ardenum]

Hi Ard - Did they direct you to here? small qtys E45 and E80 are you in EU? as they would not ship outside of EU when I enquired... Peter

https://www.moertelshop.eu/

They didn't, I know the shop but the prices are many times higher then getting the cement directly from durcrete. It's good for the other parts of the recipe though.

[lukahr]

Can you share yours contact from durcrete ?
I'm also searching for some quotations for nanodur as moertelshop is little expensive for my 3 tone machine.
Yesterday i calculated that right now my machine is exactly 1m3 of castings.
300€/ton for E80 is cheap, is that for all components or only compound 5941 ?

[ardenum]

Can you share yours contact from durcrete ?
I'm also searching for some quotations for nanodur as moertelshop is little expensive for my 3 tone machine.
Yesterday i calculated that right now my machine is exactly 1m3 of castings.
300€/ton for E80 is cheap, is that for all components or only compound 5941 ?

that's the whole recipe(no fibers or any fillers). compound 5941 is shipped outside germany in 25kg bags, 1 pallet is minimum order and that's exactly 1 ton. EUR 440/ton grey color and EUR 470/ton white color. The rest of the recipe like grovel its probably cheaper for you to get locally in slovenia. To get E80 they cite you need a propriety blend called durigid, it's also available from moertelshop.

On second thought I probably messed up the math. I always make silly mistakes like add instead of substract or one zero too much or too little(I drove my professors crazy with this...). Have a go yourself. I attach the recipe.

[badhabit]

I'm also searching for some quotations for nanodur as moertelshop is little expensive for my 3 tone machine.

Have you asked for a qoute? i bought 2tons of Silimix282 and got a whole different price than the one in the shop...

/Thomas

[ardenum]

Hi Ard - Did they direct you to here? small qtys E45 and E80 are you in EU? as they would not ship outside of EU when I enquired... Peter

https://www.moertelshop.eu/

You could buy at moertelshop and have DHL directly pick it up from them before shipping it to you. It's what we used to do back in the day to order laptops from the US(to get better specs and no tax)

Have you mailed https://www.dyckerhoff.com/home? Apparently it's where you actually buy Compound 5941 from. Durcrete themselves only do ready made parts.

[peteeng]

Hi Jon - Although Moertelshop says it will ship worldwide it won't ship the R80 outside of the EU. I'm sure the local oz mortar & aggregate will do the job. Thanks for the offer. The three companies in Europe that do this sort of thing says its pointless to ship gravel all around the world... Keep at it Peter

[ardenum]

Here's a little something to help with the waiting. 4 coolant pipes, 2 spindle cooling pipes. Direct drive setup.

[ihavenofish]

how do you release the tool ?

[ardenum]

how do you release the tool ?

It's a direct drive cartridge, the tool release is build into it. You just connect compressed air to a hose on the back end of the cartridge(hose not in the model).

[ihavenofish]

$$$

arent most of those hydraulic? dont think ive seen an air one.

[ardenum]

$$$

arent most of those hydraulic? dont think ive seen an air one.

If it's hydraulic, that's even better. I prefer a liquid pump rather then a pressurized tank/compressor. Price difference is about $300 between belt drive and direct drive(BT40) from this manufacturer:

https://ntphoenixtree.en.alibaba.com...4be8780dbfGUpT

Much cheaper than a motorized spindle.

[lukahr]

If it's hydraulic, that's even better. I prefer a liquid pump rather then a pressurized tank/compressor. Price difference is about $300 between belt drive and direct drive(BT40) from this manufacturer:

https://ntphoenixtree.en.alibaba.com...4be8780dbfGUpT

Much cheaper than a motorized spindle.

Nice concept, do you have build log anywhere ?
I will use same type direct drive spindle cartidge for my build - probably SK40 here in europe
Usual they are hydraulic. If you don't have hydraulic pump on machine then you can use hydraulic pressure booster that plugs directly into compressed air.

[ardenum]

Nice concept, do you have build log anywhere ?
I will use same type direct drive spindle cartidge for my build - probably SK40 here in europe
Usual they are hydraulic. If you don't have hydraulic pump on machine then you can use hydraulic pressure booster that plugs directly into compressed air.

Not yet, I'm probably a year or more away from actually starting the build physically, I'm also in no rush so I'm taking my time learning first.

SK40? Where are you getting the cartridge from?