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IndustryArena Forum > MetalWorking Machines > Mikinimech > My 1610L and it's issues
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allenj20 My 1610L and it's issues 06-30-2011, 02:17 AM
allenj20 Update looks like I sorted... 06-30-2011, 04:24 AM
mcphill This type of information is... 06-30-2011, 09:58 PM
allenj20 I agree with you 100% if... 07-01-2011, 04:01 AM
allenj20 Another Update Looks like... 07-01-2011, 04:10 AM
allenj20 Spindle issue solved in Mach 07-03-2011, 10:52 PM
slowtwitch So glad you have your mill... 07-04-2011, 01:01 AM
allenj20 Here's another update. ... 07-06-2011, 04:53 PM
SWATH Thanks Allen that is... 11-01-2011, 01:38 PM
allenj20 Update: My spindle definitely... 11-03-2011, 12:50 AM
mcphill I cut steel for the first... 11-03-2011, 01:00 AM
SWATH Sorry about your problems,... 11-03-2011, 05:07 AM
SWATH Any chance of posting a... 12-16-2011, 07:05 PM
allenj20 I should have taken a picture... 12-17-2011, 11:40 PM
chipmiser Hi all, I wanted to give... 12-19-2011, 04:41 AM
SWATH Good luck with that, Mikini... 12-19-2011, 05:55 AM
allenj20 The main board on the LCD... 12-19-2011, 10:22 PM
chipmiser On the first attempt to fix... 12-20-2011, 03:15 AM
allenj20 When Mikini sent me the... 12-20-2011, 04:55 PM
dbrija I'm an electrical engineer by... 12-23-2011, 06:25 AM
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
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    263

    My 1610L and it's issues

    Here is a short video of my franken Mikini part V1 part V2

    [nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKy3AV1uvBQ&feature=player_profilepage"]YouTube - ‪My Mikini 1610L‬‏[/nomedia]

    Here's another video showing some of the current challenges I have with it.

    [nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wB4XjUGhWMw&feature=player_profilepage"]YouTube - ‪MVI 0984‬‏[/nomedia]

    Cheers, Allen

  2. #2
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    Update looks like I sorted out the steps per unit issue. After talking to Phil turns out there are some dip switches on the side of the stepper driver and they need to be set differently for the version 2.0 electronics.




    So now with those dip switches changed to the new settings the default steps per unit of 20360 is more or less right now. I am re-calibrating the steps per unit now in mach 3 using the set steps per feature on the settings tab.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by allenj20 View Post
    Update looks like I sorted out the steps per unit issue. After talking to Phil turns out there are some dip switches on the side of the stepper driver and they need to be set differently for the version 2.0 electronics.

    Here is what Phil said about it.

    Steps per unit division in the motor drivers is likely off as well for the
    V2 outputs (which is affecting CNC and manual calibration. Correct setting
    for the V2 output for the drives is set by the dip switches on the left
    side of the drive. Depending on which drive you have, and which
    orientation it is installed in the correct settings for the V2 output
    should be, reading from 1-4, left to right when looking at the side of the
    drive, dip switch up, down, down, up. If flipped over it is down, up, up,
    down.


    So now with those dip switches changed to the new settings the default steps per unit of 20360 is more or less right now. I am re-calibrating the steps per unit now in mach 3 using the set steps per feature on the settings tab.
    This type of information is completely lacking from the official documentation. I think every toggle should be explained in the manual and the OEM settings should be documented. Unfortunately Phil disagrees...
    CAD, CAM, Scanning, Modelling, Machining and more. http://www.mcpii.com/3dservices.html

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcphill View Post
    This type of information is completely lacking from the official documentation. I think every toggle should be explained in the manual and the OEM settings should be documented. Unfortunately Phil disagrees...
    I agree with you 100% if support is all remote email and phone accurate and complete documentation is a must. There are a ton of things I could have fixed easily on my own if i just had complete docs.

    Imagine trying to do the complete conversion from 1.0 electronics to the 2.0 electronics with nothing but the version 2.0 Mikini binder. Of course Phil helped a lot via email but he could have saved us both a lot of time with more complete docs.

    I was reflecting the other day that I found better docs online for my Gecko G540 wiring setup than I have for my Mikini see here

  5. #5
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    Another Update

    Looks like the cause of the spindle issue has been uncovered. It looks like it is a difference on my machine with regards the the pulley ratios. So apparently my spindle motor pulley and cartridge pulley are a different ratio than what is on the stock 2.0 machine. Not sure yet what the procedure is to get the DRO and speed requests to be accurate. I have an email in to Phil hopefully I will find out soon.

    Interesting to note that the speed is being indexed by the hall effect sensors on the motor not on the spindle so keep that in mind.

    I feel like I am really close now to having a working machine knock wood.

  6. #6
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    Spindle issue solved in Mach

    Here's a short video update on the Mill and getting it working right.

    [nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVyZmGsNuck"]YouTube - ‪Mikini 1610L spindle speed update‬‏[/nomedia]

    Long story short I was able to correct the spindle setup in Mach my pulley 1 now min 0 max 7900 ratio 1.5 this is because my pulley ratio is different from the 1:1 ratio of the newer machines so don't try that on a newer machine.

    The upshot is my spindle has a higher top speed than normal ~6500 rpm . Also it is much quieter too after adjusting the belt tension a little.

    I am working on making a part right now. Maybe I will post a video of that later.
    :cheers:

  7. #7
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    Jul 2006
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    367
    So glad you have your mill running and it sounds great I hope to have some news about mine this week....

    pete

  8. #8
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    Here's another update.

    Here is a video of the mill making it's first part post repair. It's a little sailboat made out of copper sheet for a project my wife is doing. I figured it would be a good shake down run for the mill.

    I really hope it keeps working I like the mill a lot when it's working.

    [nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hm-oN00J0kE"]YouTube - ‪Mikni 1610 L Cutting a boat out of copper‬‏[/nomedia]

  9. #9
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    Finished Product

    Here is a picture of the finished product my wife did all the work I just made the little sailboat.


  10. #10
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    Thanks Allen that is excellent info. I hope we can all get a list together of every replacement part when the time comes to replace them. I think high on the list would be a spindle motor/controller. That pump looks great. I haven't had any problems with mine yet but when I do I'll be getting that one.

  11. #11
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    Update: My spindle definitely has the RPM dip at under 1k RPM issue. Is there a known fix for this besides replacing the speed controller for a fifth time?

    Should I just keep it above 1k rpm and not worry about it? It's probably indicative of a growing problem or general design flaw.

    Should I send it off to the ACS industrial chaps and see what they can do with it?

    Should I start speccing out a AC motor and VFD?

    One thing that concerns me with the AC motor and VFD is the AC motor will probably weigh more than the BLDC motor and I bet the Z axis stepper is probably only just able to handle the weight it has. Also at that point I am not sure about keeping the control panel or anything else except the steppers and stepper drivers which seem decent. But that's probably a step in the right direction anyway getting rid of the Mikini electronics.


    Anyone in Colorado want to buy a Mikini or trade for a Tormach?:idea:

  12. #12
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    Feb 2009
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    I cut steel for the first time today, I have issues too... I was running at 1000 RPM. In a 90 second process, it dipped to 800 three times. I ran the same program over an over, and it would repeat 2 or 3 times every cycle. At my intended DOC it stalled the spindle when it dipped. I slowed the feedrate about 1/3 and it didn't stall any more.

    I then changed to a full depth cut, 2000 rpm, .75 FEM, 1.5 DOC, 0.02 WOC. It handled this well. I did that pass over 10 times and it never stalled. It ran up to 65% load, but kept on chugging. It never dipped in speed either.

    Not sure what to do, I think I will give Phil a chance to techno-babble me on how the machine is fine but I did something wrong...
    CAD, CAM, Scanning, Modelling, Machining and more. http://www.mcpii.com/3dservices.html

  13. #13
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    Sorry about your problems, there doesn't seem to be any sort of fix other than replacing the board (which may or may not work as I think it is a systemic board problem). I would definitely take it up with Phil first, even if he gives you a line about your ground line or something, at least make him aware that there is a problem. I would also then call ACS and ask them how many mikinis they have serviced and and what problems they find with them.

    My replacement board no longer has any dips in rpm at any speed however it has other problems now. Someone else has indicated that a new revision of the board is in development but won't be available for another year or so. At least make Phil aware of this common problem, I think the only way to convince them that the problem is with the board and not our power or ground lines or that we don't have enough rosaries hanging from the jog pendant is if enough of us complain and hold their feet to the fire.

  14. #14
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    The thing about taking it up with Phil is I have been taking it up with Phil for going on 3 years now with no real results. I mean the spindle does at least start for now which is an improvement but it's still a dodgy spindle.

    The other thing is I don't believe for a second that Phil doesn't know there is a problem with the spindle boards. He's been shipping failure prone spindle boards for three years now. Trust me, he knows there's a problem. I have had this conversation with him many many times by now and so has most of the Mikini owners on this board. It's not news by now I am sure.

    The whole power thing is just a stall tactic. What I can't figure is what is he stalling for. He's had three years which is plenty of stalling.

    I know some of you guys are still in that hopeful phase. I was once there myself but understand I have been waiting on a fully functional machine since 2009 so I am way over that by now.

    The only recourse I see with Phil is an attorney. And though in this case it is probably entirely justified that is not generally my style.

    So I think I am going to go the Cowboy route and do a VFD and AC induction motor swap out.

    Based on weight I don't think I can do a 3 HP motor I think it would be too heavy. I am thinking I can do a 2HP motor probably. But really I don't think we are really getting 3 HP out of the BLDC motor anyway so I don't think I will really be losing out there.

    This is what I am thinking about getting comments and feedback desired.

    http://www.driveswarehouse.com/docum...chi/WJ200B.pdf

    Surplus Center - 2 HP 1725 RPM 208-230/460 VAC 3PH MOTOR

    Anyone got any advice on engineering an AC motor VFD replacement package?


    Quote Originally Posted by SWATH View Post
    Sorry about your problems, there doesn't seem to be any sort of fix other than replacing the board (which may or may not work as I think it is a systemic board problem). I would definitely take it up with Phil first, even if he gives you a line about your ground line or something, at least make him aware that there is a problem. I would also then call ACS and ask them how many mikinis they have serviced and and what problems they find with them.

    My replacement board no longer has any dips in rpm at any speed however it has other problems now. Someone else has indicated that a new revision of the board is in development but won't be available for another year or so. At least make Phil aware of this common problem, I think the only way to convince them that the problem is with the board and not our power or ground lines or that we don't have enough rosaries hanging from the jog pendant is if enough of us complain and hold their feet to the fire.

  15. #15
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    Any chance of posting a picture of the offending solder joint. I haven't even looked at my panel board.

  16. #16
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    I should have taken a picture but I did not know at the time that it would fix anything. I am sort of hesitant to even touch it now that it is working. If I have it back apart I will take a picture.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by allenj20 View Post
    I should have taken a picture but I did not know at the time that it would fix anything. I am sort of hesitant to even touch it now that it is working. If I have it back apart I will take a picture.
    Hi all,

    I wanted to give an update and some hope on the spindle problem. I played the voltage, power, ground game for about 5 months, then finally got a replacement controller board mailed to me and guess what,,,the drop I was seeing below 1000 rpm went away!
    On the down side, my RPM feedback on the controll panel is inop, and I have seen some dips at high rpm, but I am in a lot better situation now than with the rpm drops I was having at low rpm.
    An AC motor with VFD drive would sure be nice, other than that we will have to ask for board swaps until finding one that works.

  18. #18
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    Good luck with that, Mikini does not acknowledge that their board has any problems. I experienced similar things. No matter what I did on my end it did not help, but a new board solved the rpm dips but now it will not get passed 3300rpm and the rpm does not track correctly. I had a program that had an s500, and the panel read that it was spinning at s687.

  19. #19
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    SWATH just curious did Mikini replace your main board or spindle board to make the dipping go away? Might try just inspecting your main board solder joints with a magnifying glass that's all I did. I will say the soldering on these boards was not very good there was solder between chip leads as well as on them. Not enough to touch leads but just a messy job. Looks to me like the manufacturer Mikini chose for the electronics job is not the best. Wonder how much they saved over a more reliable manufacturer.

    Quote Originally Posted by SWATH View Post
    Good luck with that, Mikini does not acknowledge that their board has any problems. I experienced similar things. No matter what I did on my end it did not help, but a new board solved the rpm dips but now it will not get passed 3300rpm and the rpm does not track correctly. I had a program that had an s500, and the panel read that it was spinning at s687.

  20. #20
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    The main board on the LCD panel the one everything plugs in to. That was the one I inspected for bad solder joints.

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