535,443 active members*
2,876 visitors online*
Register for free
Login
Page 1 of 2 12
Results 1 to 20 of 33
  1. #1
    Registered
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    297

    Need help to get my motors to work

    Been trying to figure this out for 3 days and I'm totally lost.

    The main problem is that most tutorials I'm watching are either talking about Mach3 or are demonstrating on an older version of Mach4.

    Here's what I have;
    - Mach 4 Build 4470
    - Warp9 ESS
    - MB3 BOB from CNCroom

    I have Mach4 communicating with the ESS and BOB with no issues
    The DROs works properly on the Mach4 screen on all 3 axis.
    I have power to my stepper drives, but a bit confused as to which pins are to be used on the BOB.

    The output LED ( DIR +) on the BOB comes on solid when travelling in the minus (-) direction only, but I don't have a wire connected to this pin. I wired my stepper drive to " VCC, STEP-, and DIR- ".
    No other LEDs come on regardless of direction of travel.

    I think I have all parameter filled out on both the Mach configure screen as well as the Warp9 screen, but not 100% sure

    My problem is that I have no motor movement.

    I've looked at most videos on this, but I'm now more confused as ever as what to check next.
    Any help or direction to help me figure this out would be greatly appreciated.

    FWIW, I'm older and don't do well when it comes to reading volumes of technical manuals, and don't have any experience with Mach4.

    Thanks in advance.
    The one that dies with the most tools, WINS !!
    www.dantechfabricating.com

  2. #2
    Registered
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    297

    Re: Need help to get my motors to work

    I know the stepper driver is not wired properly, but don't want to mess around too much with it for fear of blowing some component.
    Where I'm getting confused is that there's 2 configure windows, one in Mach4 and the other on the ESS. I've uploaded a few screenshots of my setup, so hopefully someone can lead me down the right path.
    I just need to get a handle on the basics and I should be OK.
    Any good videos on this BOB unfortunately is in Thai which is useless to me.
    The one that dies with the most tools, WINS !!
    www.dantechfabricating.com

  3. #3
    Community Moderator ger21's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    35288

    Re: Need help to get my motors to work

    What drives do you have?
    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

  4. #4
    Registered
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    1046

    Re: Need help to get my motors to work

    Hi,
    if I'm not mistaken the MB3 has line (differential) driver outputs for Step and Direction signals to the drivers.

    If that's the case then you will get 5V pluses between Step+ and Step-, and similarly 5V pulses between Dir+ and Dir-.
    The way you have wired it you are assuming that a one leg of a differential pair can swing enough voltage to cause the stepper drive input
    photodiode to pulse. At best you will get a swing of only 2.5V, and could well be as low as 2V, which would hardly be enough to forward bias
    the photodiode.

    One of the advantages of the MB3 is that its well thought out, and the differential outputs for Step and Direction signals are a case in point, they
    are perfect for high speed signaling. The disadvantage is that its well thought out.......and has differential outputs for Step and Direction.....and so
    you must wire them as such.

    The MB3 locks you into CNCRoom's idea of a perfect breakout board for an Ethernet SmoothStepper, and to be fair to them they have done a great
    job. I myself prefer the flexibility that I get with a simpler BoB and designing and building extra circuitry as required.

    This evening I have been designing a PCB that interfaces between a simple bi-directional BoB with non-isolated 5V TTL outputs and my new Delta servos.
    I was experimenting today with single ended Step and Direction signals but found that the signaling starts to break down beyond 225kHz. The single ended
    max signalling rate spec is 200kHz, so its meeting its spec but I had hoped I might be able to push it a bit. I need 250kHz to get rated 3000 rpm from the servo,
    and in field weakening mode I could get 5000 rpm from the servo but which would require 417kHz signaling. I am perforce going to have to use differential
    signaling, and rather perversely I'm designing my own.

    I have 10 AD8055 300MHz bandwidth op-amps in hand, so I thought I might as well use them. I have done a SPICE sim of the circuit and it does the 500kHz easy
    (the spec for low freq line driver servo drive input)......but its so fast I could use the high freq line drive input, which is good to 4MHz!! What I would use it all for I don't know yet!

    Craig
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails AdaptorPCB.jpg  

  5. #5
    Registered
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    297
    Quote Originally Posted by ger21 View Post
    What drives do you have?
    I’m using 3 Pacific Scientific 6410 drives. These are the drives that came with the machine that I want to convert to mach4.

  6. #6
    Registered
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    297

    Re: Need help to get my motors to work

    Craig, you are talking technical way over my head , and I have no idea what you are talking about. Lol
    I’m a Retired Tool Maker so I think mechanically. When it comes to electronics, especially the programming part, you will have to explain it to me like I’m a 3 year old.
    I just want my motors to move.
    The one that dies with the most tools, WINS !!
    www.dantechfabricating.com

  7. #7
    Community Moderator ger21's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    35288

    Re: Need help to get my motors to work

    You want to wire them with 4 wires, Step + and Step - and Dir + and Dir -, to the matching terminals on the MB3. See the attached .pdf.
    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

  8. #8
    Community Moderator ger21's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    35288

    Re: Need help to get my motors to work

    The disadvantage is that its well thought out.......and has differential outputs for Step and Direction.....and so
    you must wire them as such.
    You can wire them other ways, but differential is preferred. Imo, it's also the easiest way to wire them.
    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

  9. #9
    Registered
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    297

    Re: Need help to get my motors to work

    Ok, thanks. I will try that today.
    I posted some screenshots of the ports and pins. Does this look correct?
    I’m still concerned that the STEP LEDs on the BOB were not flashing when I moved axis.
    The one that dies with the most tools, WINS !!
    www.dantechfabricating.com

  10. #10
    Registered
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    1046

    Re: Need help to get my motors to work

    Hi,

    You can wire them other ways, but differential is preferred. Imo, it's also the easiest way to wire them.
    My understanding is that with the MB3 you have to wire them differentially.....because that's what CNCRoom has provided.
    The wiring in the manual Ger posted is single ended, but hat won't work with the MB3.

    Craig

  11. #11
    Community Moderator ger21's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    35288

    Re: Need help to get my motors to work

    That IS the MB3 manual.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I’m still concerned that the STEP LEDs on the BOB were not flashing when I moved axis.
    You often won't see them, because they happen too fast.
    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

  12. #12
    Registered
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    1046

    Re: Need help to get my motors to work

    Hi,
    I isolation routed the PCB today and populated one channel with the (two) balanced line drivers. Works great up to 1Mhz, but need to concentrate on de-coupling
    and board layout above 3Mhz, it starts to ring pretty badly. The design will work at 500kHz easy as it is.

    In a few months time I will make my own BoB from scratch to match my Ethernet SmoothStepper, all three ports developed, high speed line driver Step/Dir outputs
    and all 24V tolerant inputs and outputs with onboard power supply and 24V auxiliary supply for the Z axis servo brake. When I make it it will be all surface mount,
    its just so much more compact and easier to get stable highspeed operation because of the smaller size and therefore 'loop area'.

    With my BoB I can see the direction LED light an unlight depending on direction but the step signal is so fast you don't see the LED blinking but rather see it glow somewhat
    with an apparent 50% duty cycle, ie about half 'on' intensity.

    Craig

  13. #13
    Registered
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    1046

    Re: Need help to get my motors to work

    Hi,
    I have hooked up my home brew line driver to my servo, being controlled by Mach4 and it works a treat.

    I have Mach4 settings of 1000 steps/unit, and I use millimeter units, so the resolution is 1um.

    My servo is direct connected to the ballscrew which is 5mm pitch. Given that the rated max speed of the servo is 3000 rpm that means the max (rated) axis speed
    is 15m/min. It does it easy.

    There is another wrinkle that you can exploit with AC servos called 'field weakening mode' which allows you to run them faster than rated speed by very cleverly
    using the control system to reduce the apparent back EMF of the motor. Using this I can get my servos to run at 5000rpm....and that's what I've done. Again with the direct
    connected 5mm pitch ballscrew at 5000 rpm means a max axis speed of 25m/min.......and to my eyes its really flying.

    My existing mini-mill has 10:1 low lash planetary gearboxes which means great thrust and acceleration but slow rapids, I've settled at 1200mm/min, ie 1.2m/min.
    You can imagine stepping up into my new build mill with rapids of 25m/min is a real eye opener. Not to mention the axis which is moving is 115kg.....and the servo
    is not even breaking a sweat!!!

    To signal the servo to rotate at 5000rpm requires a signaling rate of 417kHz with a resolution of 1um. My design does this easy!
    I suspect the line drive outputs of your MB3 would do equally well.

    Craig

  14. #14
    Registered
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    297

    Re: Need help to get my motors to work

    Good news!! Got the motor to move today. I wired the driver up like ger21 said, and it fired up. Thank you !!
    Craig, I’m not sure quite what you’re trying to convey, because most of what you’re talking about is right over my head, and not quite sure how it pertains to my setup. I’m running steppers, not servos. It’s been years since I’ve messed with home built CNC, so I’ve basically forgotten everything, so this project is like starting from scratch again.
    Again, thanks to all for the help.
    The one that dies with the most tools, WINS !!
    www.dantechfabricating.com

  15. #15
    Registered
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    1046

    Re: Need help to get my motors to work

    Hi Danno,

    Craig, I’m not sure quite what you’re trying to convey, because most of what you’re talking about is right over my head, and not quite sure how it pertains to my setup. I’m running steppers, not servos
    At the level of signaling (Step and Direction) there is little or no difference between servos and steppers. Thus anything that increases signaling speed could be useful.

    For instance you may recall back in the early days of Mach with a parallel port you were limited to 25kHz pulse speeds. This in turn limited the amount of microstepping you could
    employ because you could not otherwise pulse the stepper drives fast enough to get them to go at a useful speed.

    For example lets say you want to use 64 step microstepping, or 64 x 200= 12800 pulse/rev. At 25khz that works out to a paltry 1.95 revs/sec or 117 rpm!!!! So slow!!!!
    However with your ESS you can signal at up to 4Mhz and your MB3 can handle 500kHz. Adopting 500kHz as a practical max signaling speed you could obtain:
    500,000/12800=39 revs/sec or a whopping 2300 rpm. You steppers may not ever attain that speed, but now your control system could do it whereas old school Mach could not.

    You have paid good money for Mach4, the ESS and the MB3, you need to understand what they are capable of, and the short answer is they are VERY capable indeed.

    I use my servo as an example, I can have 1um resolution, very hard for me to even measure and yet still be capable of pulsing fast enough with Mach/ESS and my
    home brew BoB to rev the motors to 5000rpm....bloody fantastic!

    Craig

  16. #16
    Registered
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    297

    Re: Need help to get my motors to work

    You are absolutely correct, I have no idea of the capabilities of what I purchased. In fact, I purchased what I did solely on the recommendation of others.
    The reason I’m doing this retrofit is not because I need a CNC router, but more so to try and push myself out of my comfort zone into something I know very little about. I have a mechanical mind, which is most likely why I became a Tool maker because I can visualize mechanics easily. When it comes to CNC, not so much so.
    Even now, after getting my motor to actually run, I still don’t understand 90% of why and how all this stuff works or how these electronic components even talk to each other.
    I built a CNC mill about 12 years ago using its original servo motors, and got it running fairly easily even though hobby CNC was fairly new. Today it’s much easier for the hobbiest, but the problem is I’m now 12 years older and I’m finding I don’t have the capacity to learn like I used to. It very frustrating, but I guess that the joy of getting old.
    If it wasn’t for the help here, I don’t think I would be able to get this machine running.

    I do have one more question!
    I’m using my laptop to run Mach4, and now that the Ethernet port is configured and programmed to run the ESS, can this same port still be used like before to connect to the internet? I wasn’t sure if it would still work as a normal computer.
    The one that dies with the most tools, WINS !!
    www.dantechfabricating.com

  17. #17
    Registered
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    1046

    Re: Need help to get my motors to work

    Hi,
    yes the PC should work as normal, what I would not attempt is to run your machine while the PC is hooked to the Internet, you are asking for
    MS to give you an update, then Mach will starve of CPU time and your job gets wrecked.

    When machining it pays to consider the PC 'a machine controller that just happens to use Windows as OS'. Only when the machine is stopped
    is it safe to use the PC for other things.

    Craig

  18. #18
    Registered
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    1046

    Re: Need help to get my motors to work

    Hi
    as of this evening I have my line driver design running at 4.6MHz and sourcing/sinking 40mA, you could hook an aerial to that!!
    Quite happy with it, I was going to re-design it using surface mount components thinking that it would be easier to get high speed
    stability, but the through hole components have proven good enough.

    Craig

  19. #19
    Registered
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    297

    Re: Need help to get my motors to work

    I got lots of progress done, but need help on the getting the spindle to work.

    All the axis are now running prefect. The VFD is connected to the motor, and at the moment I'm using a small power supply to send a 0-10v signal to it . It runs great also.
    Where I'm stuck is configuring the Mach4/ESS to send the 0-10v signal out.
    There's a lot of tutorials out there, but they are all old and the examples given don't match my newer version of MACH4/ESS screens.
    Having to program in both the Mach configure screens as well as the ESS configure screens is really causing me issues. I have filled in all parameters, but obviously something isn't right because I have no 0-10v signal coming out of the BOB.
    The one that dies with the most tools, WINS !!
    www.dantechfabricating.com

  20. #20
    Registered
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    297

    Re: Need help to get my motors to work

    I may have the output pins messed up, but not sure.

    Here's what I have checked off on the ESS config;

    -under "spindle", I have PWM enabled with a frequency of 300hz
    -spindle PID is checked
    -under "output signals", I have "spindle motor PMW" enabled on P1-16, and "spindle FWD" enabled on P1-14.

    Here's what I have checked off on the Mach4 config ;

    -under "spindle", I have Max RPM of 18000 in column "0", and I have 18000 as the maximum motor RPM.

    I wired the VFD to the BOB, and under MDI I tried to run "M3 s5000" but got no spindle movement.
    A few articles I've been reading mention Port1 pin1 needs to be used, but I'm totally lost because I can't find info on what to check next.
    The one that dies with the most tools, WINS !!
    www.dantechfabricating.com

Page 1 of 2 12

Similar Threads

  1. X,Y,and Z motors will not work
    By clake4341 in forum Arduino
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 06-06-2019, 03:01 PM
  2. Will these stepper motors work?
    By SteveC68 in forum Hobbycnc (Products)
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 12-13-2017, 10:59 PM
  3. I Need Help Getting My Motors To Work
    By Kickin Wing in forum Benchtop Machines
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 04-30-2015, 12:20 AM
  4. Will these motors work with this controller
    By purecnc in forum General CNC Machine Related Electronics
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 03-24-2010, 04:35 AM
  5. How do I work out what motors I need
    By Methias in forum Stepper Motors / Drives
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 07-02-2009, 02:36 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •