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  1. #1
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    Jun 2011
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    Need help... Toolchanger won't extend

    Ok... So I have just run into a problem and I have tried a few different things....

    The issue is that the tool changer will not extend.

    With the drives off I can use a screwdriver to push on the wing arm and manually extend it out. when the drives are enabled it successfully retracts the toolchanger.

    When I try to use the re-load tool function I can see the arm move slightly and then it stops and I get a tool arm timeout.

    I already changed the one relay that seems a little out of line on the LCTLAUF board with no change.

    During testing I have also gotten a PM Axis fault a couple times (not sure what axis "PM" is).

    any ideas?

    Richard

  2. #2
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    May 2016
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkStarMedia View Post
    Ok... So I have just run into a problem and I have tried a few different things....

    The issue is that the tool changer will not extend.

    With the drives off I can use a screwdriver to push on the wing arm and manually extend it out. when the drives are enabled it successfully retracts the toolchanger.

    When I try to use the re-load tool function I can see the arm move slightly and then it stops and I get a tool arm timeout.

    I already changed the one relay that seems a little out of line on the LCTLAUF board with no change.

    During testing I have also gotten a PM Axis fault a couple times (not sure what axis "PM" is).

    any ideas?

    Richard
    Have you performed the resetting procedure

  3. #3
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    Re: Need help... Toolchanger won't extend

    Resetting procedure? Not sure what that procedure is.

    Richard

  4. #4
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    Re: Need help... Toolchanger won't extend

    Ok... so I just ran a test. I pulled the motor and set it on top of the machine. when the drives are enabled the motor is spinning. when the tool changer is commanded to move out I hear a click and it stops spinning.

    Gonna run the test again to double check.

    Richard

    EDT: I wonder now if it's my LCTLAUF board. I measured the resistances on the relay contacts and they ere all the same (except the one I replaced which was giving inconsistent readings.

    Based on my reading of the manual at 8.3.4 I don't think there should be voltage at the motor unless commanded. It appears that the brake is off and voltage applied when the drives are on. when commanded to move the arm it appears that power to the brake is removed causing it to engage.

    EDT2: I am going to pull the board and verify the relays (or triacs as the manual calls them).

  5. #5
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    Re: Need help... Toolchanger won't extend

    And what do you know.... gotta replace a relay/triac.

    My last spare. I will have to order a few extra from allied.

    I will let you know if it works.

    On a side note... this one appears to have been replaced before.

    Richard

  6. #6
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    Re: Need help... Toolchanger won't extend

    Ok I think I got this licked....

    Replaced the triac/ss relay and it appears to function correctly. Now I have to put it all back together.

    This would have been a lot easier if I caught it the first time I had the board out. I am thinking the residue on the pins means I did not make full contact with the multimeter when I first pulled the board.

    Well it's 100 degrees out (on it's way to 106)... I got the swamp cooler running so I better get to it. I plan to sweat through today to get it re-assembled and try the run in the morning :violin:

    Richard

  7. #7
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    Re: Need help... Toolchanger won't extend

    All working now

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkStarMedia View Post
    All working now
    Good to hear Richard. And good to know as well.
    Marty

  9. #9
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    Re: Need help... Toolchanger won't extend

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkStarMedia View Post
    Replaced the triac/ss relay and it appears to function correctly. Now I have to put it all back together.
    Hey Richard, I fired up the TC3 today and I'm getting the same issue. The changer just starts to move. PM error sometimes. I pulled the motor thinking my gearbox finally bit the dust but it looks fine. Do you recall what triac you had to replace?

    I found this thread:
    https://www.cnczone.com/forums/bridg...r-problem.html

    It appears the relays are Grayhill 70M-OAC5A or something similar. I'll check them in the morning.

  10. #10
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    Re: Need help... Toolchanger won't extend

    My TC3 has a different TLAUF board 1159-8005. I split the motor from the gearbox and when I reload the magazine the motor only moves slightly but every once in a while it will spin. When activated the 8-Arm Out relay on top energize as well as 4-Arm Brake. It does occasionally run which makes me suspect the relay. It always retracted fine.

    I have a spare board that I pulled from my spare control, I guess I will swap the boards.

    Attachment 454970

  11. #11
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    Re: Need help... Toolchanger won't extend

    ...if it's a DC motor check the brushes should be loose and move freely. Or maybe needed replaced.
    DJ

  12. #12
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    Re: Need help... Toolchanger won't extend

    Quote Originally Posted by machinehop5 View Post
    ...if it's a DC motor check the brushes should be loose and move freely. Or maybe needed replaced.
    The motor is AC and is working fine. I swapped out the IO board and I've been a able to cycle the tool changer without issues. I'm doing the final re-assembly of all the sheet metal now. I'll order some new relays for my old board and keep it as a spare.

  13. #13
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    Re: Need help... Toolchanger won't extend

    Good to hear... My TC22 has been down over a year at this point. Every other tool change or so it errors on the position of the toolchanger. I have replaced and adjusted the sensors a few times and every time I go to the diag menu they operate fine.

    My theory is that one of the mainboards is not reacting well (maybe a bad cap/resistor or something) that is delaying the sensor read just long enough to error out.

    I was also having issues with one of the Axis erroring out on an overload error. I dropped the rapid speed down to 150 and that went away but babysitting the toolchanger was just too much.

    I think the ballscrew bearings are starting to go as my oiling system has not worked right for a long time.

    I want to pull the head and table and really go through and rebuild it. I have not felt any detectable backlash anywhere so I think everything is recoverable.

    I think I will go to centroid during the rebuild too. Its good metal so I think it will be really nice when done.

    -Richard

  14. #14
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    Re: Need help... Toolchanger won't extend

    Richard, Sorry to hear your machine has been down for so long. A Centroid re-fit would be nice. I've seen some TC machines converted and they appear to do pretty good.

    After I put on all the sheet metal I ran a dozen or so tool changes without issue before the arm stopped extending. Argh! Pulled the motor and it was stuck on. The arm retract relay welded itself on. I desoldered the relay in situ by carefully folding the board back without removing everything and replaced the Omron G6B-1174P-US-DC24 relay with one off my old board. I was then able to finish the remaining parts for today. I guess I'll see how it goes tomorrow before I put all the sheetmetal back on.

  15. #15
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    Re: Need help... Toolchanger won't extend

    I ran about a half dozen parts before the tool changer stuck extended. I replaced the second relay on the board. I've now replaced both extend and retract relays. I went on to run rest of my parts for the day without issue. I'm starting to suspect the motor may be drawing too much current or by bad luck the spare board I had was just near death. In any event I need to order more relays.

    My motor and gearbox combo is made by Simplatroll Ltd. Ack Nr: 289477/6 Stk Nr: P8-669525 Cust Ref: 11598447. There isn't any voltage/amperage name plate. No idea what this should draw. I don't think this drive is original.

    The geneva mechanism appears to run smooth without excessive clunking. I'm kinda stumped as why it started acting up.

  16. #16

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    Jan 2021
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    4

    Re: Need help... Toolchanger won't extend

    I was having the same issue and replaced my triacs as well and it fixed the issue. Until the brake on the toolchange motor was overheating and blowing the triacs. I replaced the motor with brake and the triacs and it has been operating fine since.

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