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IndustryArena Forum > CNC Electronics > Stepper Motors / Drives > New Build Help - Choosing closed loop stepper + drivers
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  1. #1

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    New Build Help - Choosing closed loop stepper + drivers

    I curently have a Chinese 6040, and am building a 1500x1500 with a 1200x1200 work area.

    I will be using 25mm rails and bearings and 1605 ballscrews.

    I have ordered:
    3x 1500mm SFU1605 ball screw+BK12/BF12+DSG16H+Coup
    4x 1500mm HGR25
    8x HGH25

    1x 400mm SFU1605 ball screw+BK12/BF12+DSG16H+Coup
    2x 400mm HGR25
    4x HGH25

    I have never used Closed Loop so am asking you for some advice, if you have other sugestions let me know.
    I am ordering from these guys on Aliexpress.
    https://www.aliexpress.com/store/gro...75167485HpKSMm

    Q1. Nema 23 or 34?

    This is the NEMA23
    57EH83A4001 Hybrid Step-servo CL57 Driver kit 57X83mm Nema23 Closed Loop 4.0A 2.6N.M 57CME26 Servo motor Stepper Motor for CNC
    https://www.aliexpress.com/store/gro...75167485HpKSMm

    This is the Nema34 in a 4 kit
    3 axis cnc kit nema 34 closed loop Servo Stepper Motor 8N + Driver CL86 48V Power Supply+ MACH3 Interface board cable
    https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005...3f1862ec5hlVVZ

    Q2. any opinion ong the Drivers used?

  2. #2

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    Re: New Build Help - Choosing closed loop stepper + drivers

    It has been sugested that the nema23 2.6nm will be plenty enough for a CNC router

  3. #3

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    Re: New Build Help - Choosing closed loop stepper + drivers

    This is the extruded profile to be used for the Gantry its 1500x75x100.
    It will have HGH25mm Rails and bearings fitted
    the Z will be weighty with 25mm rails

    Any sugestions or Ideas etc would be appreciated.

  4. #4
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    Re: New Build Help - Choosing closed loop stepper + drivers

    Hi Decoy - With a 5mm lead you will only need a Nema23 motor and you will be able to move a small car.. Peter

  5. #5

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    Re: New Build Help - Choosing closed loop stepper + drivers

    Thanks Peter
    I was trying to send you a msg but it said you're inbox was full
    Any opinion on their drivers?

  6. #6
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    Re: New Build Help - Choosing closed loop stepper + drivers

    Hi - Haven't used them so can't say. Only used Gecko 540 and drivers from stepperonline which all have been excellent... Peter I'll empty the box...

  7. #7
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    Re: New Build Help - Choosing closed loop stepper + drivers

    Seriously.
    I would contact Lichuan deirectly.
    See if you can get the LCDA86 drivers and LC60H2112 nema24 motors as a combo with the 5m cable set.
    Or with the LC60H2102 motors.
    https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001397642734.html
    These are swore by, by a pro router builder/supplier here in the uk. He uses them and nothing else. (JAZZCNC on mycncuk forum)
    View Profile: JAZZCNC - MYCNCUK

    They are really good sets and work great on 55vac toroidal transformers.

    You have to contact Lichuan directly about it because.... The 86 drivers are only avilable 'off the shelf' with the 2127 motors but the inductance on these ones is too high for a router build.
    https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3300...88034097%22%7D
    Motor specs for whole range on page 6:
    https://www.upload.sorotec.de/doku/manuals/2phasen.pdf

    (I have one of their AC servo units)

  8. #8
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    12828

    Re: New Build Help - Choosing closed loop stepper + drivers

    Quote Originally Posted by Dec0y View Post
    I curently have a Chinese 6040, and am building a 1500x1500 with a 1200x1200 work area.

    I will be using 25mm rails and bearings and 1605 ballscrews.

    I have ordered:
    3x 1500mm SFU1605 ball screw+BK12/BF12+DSG16H+Coup
    4x 1500mm HGR25
    8x HGH25

    1x 400mm SFU1605 ball screw+BK12/BF12+DSG16H+Coup
    2x 400mm HGR25
    4x HGH25

    I have never used Closed Loop so am asking you for some advice, if you have other sugestions let me know.
    I am ordering from these guys on Aliexpress.
    https://www.aliexpress.com/store/gro...75167485HpKSMm

    Q1. Nema 23 or 34?

    This is the NEMA23
    57EH83A4001 Hybrid Step-servo CL57 Driver kit 57X83mm Nema23 Closed Loop 4.0A 2.6N.M 57CME26 Servo motor Stepper Motor for CNC
    https://www.aliexpress.com/store/gro...75167485HpKSMm

    This is the Nema34 in a 4 kit
    3 axis cnc kit nema 34 closed loop Servo Stepper Motor 8N + Driver CL86 48V Power Supply+ MACH3 Interface board cable
    https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005...3f1862ec5hlVVZ

    Q2. any opinion ong the Drivers used?
    It's not normal to use a 5mm pitch Ballscrew for X and Y axis with a Router this size, 10mm Pitch is the minimum that anyone uses, you may need larger motors with the 10mm Pitch Ballscrew
    Mactec54

  9. #9
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    Re: New Build Help - Choosing closed loop stepper + drivers

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    It's not normal to use a 5mm pitch Ballscrew for X and Y axis with a Router this size, 10mm Pitch is the minimum that anyone uses, you may need larger motors with the 10mm Pitch Ballscrew

    In that case.
    Beings he's ordered the screws etc already.
    Maybe he should look at getting small AC servo's on the Y's instead.
    The extra RPM capabilities will counteract the smaller pitch.

    Maybe an option yes?.
    The price differences isn't all that massive like it used to be.

  10. #10
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    Re: New Build Help - Choosing closed loop stepper + drivers

    Quote Originally Posted by dazp1976 View Post
    In that case.
    Beings he's ordered the screws etc already.
    Maybe he should look at getting small AC servo's on the Y's instead.
    The extra RPM capabilities will counteract the smaller pitch.

    Maybe an option yes?.
    The price differences isn't all that massive like it used to be.
    No the diameter of the Ballscrew will determined how fast it can be run
    Mactec54

  11. #11

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    Re: New Build Help - Choosing closed loop stepper + drivers

    I have not ordered yet, I am in the process of ordering now.
    This is where I am up to, I am building 2 machines.

    I am not overly fussed on how fast It can move when not under load, more focused on accuracy.
    However I dont want it to be a snail either. so any feedback or sugestions are welcome.

    https://maxcdn.cnczone.com/images/attach/png.gif

  12. #12
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    Re: New Build Help - Choosing closed loop stepper + drivers

    Quote Originally Posted by Dec0y View Post
    I have not ordered yet, I am in the process of ordering now.
    This is where I am up to, I am building 2 machines.

    I am not overly fussed on how fast It can move when not under load, more focused on accuracy.
    However I dont want it to be a snail either. so any feedback or sugestions are welcome.

    https://maxcdn.cnczone.com/images/attach/png.gif
    I give you my viewpoint on it 5 posts back on the 10th.

    I wouldn't go back to a 57 sized driver on anything ever again.

  13. #13

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    Re: New Build Help - Choosing closed loop stepper + drivers

    I did see your post where you recomended getting the 86 drivers but did not disclose why.
    Is there a reason there is a problem with the 57 drivers?

    I will ask tomorrow if they can swap them.

  14. #14

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    Re: New Build Help - Choosing closed loop stepper + drivers

    I can get it swapped to their CL86 driver.
    Is it soemthing special or a feature about lichuans driver?

  15. #15

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    Re: New Build Help - Choosing closed loop stepper + drivers

    I own Mach3 and prefer to use it, this is the BOB I am looking at using.
    Or should I be looking at something else?

    Probaly should move this to a bild thread.

    https://maxcdn.cnczone.com/images/attach/jpg.gif

  16. #16
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    Re: New Build Help - Choosing closed loop stepper + drivers

    Quote Originally Posted by Dec0y View Post
    I have not ordered yet, I am in the process of ordering now.
    This is where I am up to, I am building 2 machines.

    I am not overly fussed on how fast It can move when not under load, more focused on accuracy.
    However I dont want it to be a snail either. so any feedback or sugestions are welcome.

    https://maxcdn.cnczone.com/images/attach/png.gif
    16mm is to small in diameter for a Ballscrew that long, if your plan is to use a rotating nut then 16mm can be used, a minimum of 20mm for that length would be normal

    The screw Pitch has nothing to do with accuracy a 5mm pitch will give you a better resolution than a 10mm Pitch that is all it will change 1500mm of travel at 5mm pitch will get old fast

    When you start talking about accuracy there are many things that come into play standard rolled C7 Ballscrews is not what you would use if you are looking for a high accuracy

    Stress relieved frame, machined mounting surfaces and quality component's used is a good starting point for an accurate machine build
    Mactec54

  17. #17
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    Re: New Build Help - Choosing closed loop stepper + drivers

    Quote Originally Posted by Dec0y View Post
    I did see your post where you recomended getting the 86 drivers but did not disclose why.
    Is there a reason there is a problem with the 57 drivers?
    I will ask tomorrow if they can swap them.
    Basically. The main reason is that if you find the voltage is too low and start missing steps early on in the rpm range, you are stuck.
    The 86 drivers give you options.
    Even 48v on the 57 drivers is a push and leaves zero headroom for potential rf feedback.

    Also another option. If you can get AC capable drivers you can just stick a large single toroidal power supply directly to them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dec0y View Post
    I can get it swapped to their CL86 driver.
    Is it soemthing special or a feature about lichuans driver?
    Nothing really special about them as such. Just word of mouth feedback about them. As I said. A pro router builder (business) here in the u.k. will supply his machines with nothing else. The 86 drivers coupled with the 60H2102 motors running off a 55vac toroidal supply are apparently awesome.
    He'd supply me a set+cables for £100gbp per axis (u.k.) but I'll go for their servo's instead when/if I upgrade again.
    I have a Lichuan A4 ac servo drive and 1.8kw motor combo already for my spindle on the mill and it's very nice for the price.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dec0y View Post
    I own Mach3 and prefer to use it, this is the BOB I am looking at using.
    Or should I be looking at something else?
    Probaly should move this to a bild thread.
    https://maxcdn.cnczone.com/images/attach/jpg.gif
    If you are going to use a VFD type drive system on your spindle then AVOID USB interfaces at all costs. They can be horrendous for causing EMI noise problems.
    You should look at ethernet interface instead. Also anything beginning with NV, such as NVUM , NVEM , maybe even the one you looked at. There are issues with PC drivers being unavailable or not working such as .bin files.
    Personally I reckon the AXBB-E is a good shout. Something like that.

  18. #18
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    Re: New Build Help - Choosing closed loop stepper + drivers

    Hi,
    NVUM or NVSUN or whatever they call themselves sell pirated copies of Mach3 and you will get zero support on the Mach forum.

    I would recommend an Ethernet SmoothStepper (ESS) by Warp9TD. The ESS has a Mach3 plugin and a very complete Mach4 plugin. All development on Mach3 ceased six years
    ago. Given the number of people who use it its not obsolete, but whatever bugs and shortcomings it has its stuck with. Mach4 on the other hand is an all new design and is in every respect better...
    despite the learning curve.

    When buying steppers look for the lowest possible inductance......inductance is a very fair measure of how badly the torque will degrade with speed. The lower the inductance the faster the stepper
    will go all other things being equal.

    For a 23 or 24 sized stepper look for 1mH to 2mH, 1 mH preferred and reject anything over 2mH
    For a 34 size stepper look for 2mH to 4mH, 2mH preferred and reject anything over 4mH.

    Get the highest voltage drivers and power supply you can afford. 80VDC drivers are the highest commonly available drivers, you want a set of them and ideally a 80V linear (transformer/rectifier/capacitor) supply,
    they are more forgiving than switchmode supplies.

    There are any number of people who'll try to sell you closed loop steppers at a premium. Don't bother, a closed loop stepper is STILL a stepper, with all the shortcomings of a stepper. They would have you believe
    that a closed loop cures all these problems....it doesn't. If you really want closed loop go for the real deal...AC servos.

    The Lichuan brand are perfectly OK and for the money very attractive, but they are not the best if this is your first servo, I would recommend Delta or DMM as having better suppport but more
    importantly set-up software.

    Craig

  19. #19
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    Re: New Build Help - Choosing closed loop stepper + drivers

    Quote Originally Posted by joeavaerage View Post
    Hi,

    For a 23 or 24 sized stepper look for 1mH to 2mH, 1 mH preferred and reject anything over 2mH
    For a 34 size stepper look for 2mH to 4mH, 2mH preferred and reject anything over 4mH.
    Craig
    Depends on the cost tbh. You are right but if you're on a budget you need to just find the best balance between cost and spec.

    I've found that inductance above say 2mh hurts you most if you use 48v or less with those 57 size driver types.
    With running mine at 60Vdc, an inductance factor of 3mh on 566oz standard steppers hasn't been an issue. Just not as efficient power use.
    I'd happily run them at 80vdc with the right drivers.

    Such as the DM860T from stepperonline. 80Vac / 110Vdc.

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