[Crevice Reamer]

Ah, Grizzly has started a small mill battle it seems.

Indeed they have. LOL!

Lets compare shall we.
G0704, for $950 you get 1 HP, 2250 rpm, nearly 19 x 7 travels, 7-1/8 x 26-5/8 table and a free stand.

IS it 1 HP? More like 3/4 or less methinks. Can't argue with the travels. They are very nice. I would like to know what load rating the table has though. I like the speed and tachometer. The free stand would not be a gift to me, as I would not use it. I would like to see the G0704 priced $150-$200 less WITHOUT the stand.

G0619, for $1295 you get 1 HP, 1750 rpm, about 16 x 5.75 travels, 6-1/4" x 21-5/8 table, no stand. Seemed like a no brainer to me too.

The G0619 SX3 has a 1.3HP BLDC motor (Which IMO is the future of machinery motors) This tiny motor delivers tremendous torque--even when running 1:1 to make motor speed = spindle speed. (3600 RPM with a simple pulley change) It also offers more Z height, and with the new table, more X than G0704. IMO, you get what you pay for in the very powerful BLDC spindle motor, quiet belt drive, compact head design, tachometer and the possibly useful 90 degree tilting head.

Now one can argue about bracing this and modding that to try and even things up, but what can be done
to one can also be done to the other.

Maybe. We hope to see what you, the Master of Mods, will do with the G0704. You will be starting with a smaller platform to begin with though.

Sieg must be getting worried, they came out with the extended table for the X3 as I pointed out a couple weeks ago at MTW. The BF's have had L versions for quite a while.

Maybe so.

Betcha HF unloaded the X3 to make room for a BF too.
I said it before and I'll say it again, the BF's are our future.
Hoss

HF also canceled X1 and KX3 models. Sales may be down since they stopped having in-store stock. They may be going out of the small mill business entirely.

IMO, though, they should be going with the longer table X3L and maybe the SXL--and put them back into the stores. If they were smart, they would market a barebones CNC ready machine for under $2K. Something like the Syil X4 BLDC-no-quill head/long table X3 with CNC motor mounts already installed.

I see the G0704 as the future of X2 replacement. Without the stand, it would compete very nicely in price and be a vast improvement. I do NOT see the G0704 as an SX3 replacement though.

CR.

[ihavenofish]

HF also canceled X1 and KX3 models. Sales may be down since they stopped having in-store stock. They may be going out of the small mill business entirely.

hf didnt "cancel" the kx3. my understanding is they never had it. little machineshop took over sales of siegs cnc line.

the weiss wmd30lv has 20"x8" travel, weighs 500lbs and doesnt cost a huge amount more money.

then theres the bf46 at 1000lbs+ with an iso40 spindle. that ones pricey though.

and as far as the sx3 spindle at 1.3hp.. is it really? my sieg brushless motor claims .7hp, and its nowhere near that.

[Crevice Reamer]

the x3 has the ball screw / lead screw in the back of the column. it uses 2 arms to reach around the column to the z saddle.

I finally figured out what you are talking about. You may be basing much of your X3 objections on the inferior design of the X1, which is what your KX1 is based on. The X3 is a different animal though, and a MUCH stronger design than the weak little X1.

Your KX1 has the Z lead screw mounted behind the column--and arms that wrap around the column. You are right, this is a poor way of mounting the lead screw. So you think that the X3 also uses this method?

However, the X3 Z screw is mounted INSIDE the column. True, there are wrap around arms, but it is actually a very workable design and this is NOT a defect.

CR.

[Crevice Reamer]

hf didnt "cancel" the kx3. my understanding is they never had it. little machineshop took over sales of siegs cnc line.

Well, HF had it. They must have sold some too. They are still supporting the KX3 manual website:

http://www.harborfreight.com/manuals...6999/66051.pdf

Somehow, I don't think LMS would have gotten the franchise if HF didn't relinquish it.

the weiss wmd30lv has 20"x8" travel, weighs 500lbs and doesnt cost a huge amount more money. then theres the bf46 at 1000lbs+ with an iso40 spindle. that ones pricey though.

I freely concede that there are larger mills than G0704 & G0619, but we were only discussing THEM--What's your point?

and as far as the sx3 spindle at 1.3hp.. is it really? my sieg brushless motor claims .7hp, and its nowhere near that.

The only reason to need more HP in a mill is to have power to mill without cutter bogging down. This is a factor of torque--and with a standard motor, more HP= more torque. The SX3 BLDC motor has an abundance of torque--even at low speed. It has the torque of at least a 1.3HP motor and probably more.

I can't speak for the KX1 motor as I have no experience with it. If you run it at low speed, can you stop the spindle with your hands?

CR.

[ihavenofish]

I finally figured out what you are talking about. You may be basing much of your X3 objections on the inferior design of the X1, which is what your KX1 is based on. The X3 is a different animal though, and a MUCH stronger design than the weak little X1.

Your KX1 has the Z lead screw mounted behind the column--and arms that wrap around the column. You are right, this is a poor way of mounting the lead screw. So you think that the X3 also uses this method?

However, the X3 Z screw is mounted INSIDE the column. True, there are wrap around arms, but it is actually a very workable design and this is NOT a defect.

CR.

the kx1 and the kx3 / x3 are virtually identical in design. the kx1 is just smaller. the x3 is beefier, sure, but it still suffers from the same issues, just to a lessar extent.

im quite familliar with both designs thanks. yes, the x3 is workable, never said it wasnt. just said the wiess design is better.

[ihavenofish]

Well, HF had it. They must have sold some too. They are still supporting the KX3 manual website:

http://www.harborfreight.com/manuals...6999/66051.pdf

Somehow, I don't think LMS would have gotten the franchise if HF didn't relinquish it.

yes, they listed them, they had the manual up, they never actually recieved stock or shipped any that i know of. "relinquished" is a funny word. in distribution its usually called "pulled" and its not often the retailers decision.

I freely concede that there are larger mills than G0704 & G0619, but we were only discussing THEM--What's your point?

the point? youre the one who keeps touting weight as the only feature on the more expensive sx3. so why not line it up against the heavier more expensive weiss?

The only reason to need more HP in a mill is to have power to mill without cutter bogging down. This is a factor of torque--and with a standard motor, more HP= more torque. The SX3 BLDC motor has an abundance of torque--even at low speed. It has the torque of at least a 1.3HP motor and probably more.

sigh. like talking to a brick wall. what makes you think the weiss motor doesnt put out the claimed torque and your sx3 does?

[/quote]
I can't speak for the KX1 motor as I have no experience with it. If you run it at low speed, can you stop the spindle with your hands?
[/QUOTE]

... thats the dumbest thing ive ever heard. you couldnt stop any of these minimill motors with your bare hands. i can barely stop a dremel, and thats got nearly no torque. my motor claims 1nm torque, which it probably has at stall, but at 5000rpm its not getting half that based on the cuts it takes.

none of this relates to the grizzly, which claims 1hp and noone here has actually reported back on whether its got the juice or not.

anyway, can we get back to the grizzly 0704 now? theres plenty of threads on the sx3.

[photomankc]

I'm just going to have a cup of coffee and have a seat over here and watch the show.

[ellik]

Its either that or UFC. Just no hitting below the belt boys..

[sfrankland]

This is why I bought the Busy Bee mill. We Canadian's are just a peaceful lot.

[ihavenofish]

This is why I bought the Busy Bee mill. We Canadian's are just a peaceful lot.

LIES

*takes a swing*

hehe.
i just dont like things being cluttered with misinformation is all. (and hope people correct me when i get things wrong).

[Crevice Reamer]

LIES

*takes a swing*

hehe.
i just dont like things being cluttered with misinformation is all. (and hope people correct me when i get things wrong).

I am happy to state that the G0704 is a well made and capable milling machine. It is a good value for the price. I just don't think it is as capable as the X3, and especially the SX3. That is my opinion. All of this came about because you said I made incorrect comments.

....the point was that one shouldnt discount the g0704 mill because of your incorrect comments

Here are my comments:

The machine itself is about 100 pounds lighter than an X3--That's not a good sign for rigidity. The base is about the same size on the bottom, but much less beefy.

The table is larger and so is travel, but that saddle looks very skinny. I doubt the table will hold the 150 pounds that the X3 will.

The X3 is also taller. The X3 Throat is almost 2 inches larger and it has a bit more spindle height above table. The 1 HP motor should draw more than 3.5A, so I don't think that is real.

Drilling capacity & end mill capacity are only 3/4 that of X3. Dials are calibrated .002 compared to X3 .001 and .0005 on Z.

For Grizzly to be able to sell this WITH stand for about same as X3 means cost savings happened that probably decrease its utility.

All in all, I get the impression that this mill is lighter duty than X3. I place it somewhere between the X2 and X3--And certainly below the 1.33 HP SX3.

CR.

Please explain which ones are incorrect, and why.

CR.

[hoss2006]

Walt is under the impression that the X3's added weight somehow gives it a better platform for improved machining capabilities,
at least he seems to want to imply that it does.
Just change this, add that, throw in an unavailable L table (ignore what it would add to the cost) now it's worth the extra money.
Facts are that I've never seen an X3 cutting anything better than my X2 could.
The question is whether the SX3 tradeoffs are worth the $345 price difference.
It wasn't to me.
If I was going to spend $345 for extra dead weight, I'd throw in another $120
and get a ZX45 and ACTUALLY have a mill that can live up to the hype.
The most "bang for your buck" as the kids say.
That's what the G0704 is too.
Hoss

[Teyber12]

you guys are arguing over something that is subjective therefore wasting time and hurting feelings...

whats better mac or pc... whos a better presidential candidate.. whats the best religion...

Its personal preference, whoever is in the market for a mill won't make a wrong decision between the two.

[machinechick]

Well said Teyber12!

[bodysnatcher]

This is why I bought the Busy Bee mill. We Canadian's are just a peaceful lot.

Well i believed that until the Olympics started...Have you seen the ruthless tactics they use?...J/K...

Everytime i pick up the phone to order a mill, something changes in mill land. One thing that sticks out (just for me personally, working on BPorts all day), is
the Spindle travel. At 2", or 2-3/4", both machines are limited UNLESS you go cnc, and i might not go cnc for awhile. That's why Hoss's ZX45 interested me,
more spindle travel, more like a BPort.

[sfrankland]

Well i believed that until the Olympics started...Have you seen the ruthless tactics they use?...J/K...

Listen you guys may of kicked our butt in men's hockey the other night but we owned you guys in the pairs figure skating free dance.

I find it funny though I have been reading these forums for 4 years now and have yet to see a mill owner say I bought this mill and I am not planning on making any chances to it. So either of these two mills and the many others out there I am sure will be bought and changed, modified, rebuilt many times over.

Now if I had to pick one over the other I would go with the G0704 because I like the paint colour better the the SX3. There I said it and I will argue this till the cows come home.

[Crevice Reamer]

Now if I had to pick one over the other I would go with the G0704 because I like the paint colour better the the SX3. There I said it and I will argue this till the cows come home.

You are a connoisseur sir. No cows needed. I rather favor the color scheme myself.

CR.

[Flenser]

I think that's the first forum argument I've ever read that didn't end in name calling, death threats or mass bannings. You machinists must be a pretty civil lot.

[ihavenofish]

I think that's the first forum argument I've ever read that didn't end in name calling, death threats or mass bannings. You machinists must be a pretty civil lot.

i think thats because alot of the info here ISNT subjective, and most of us are here to learn instead of forcing our subjective views onto others.

i make guitars, so i frequent guitar forums. the fighting in those places is just plain silly.

[Crevice Reamer]

Sigh!