[Burn]

Okay, I am almost finished building my Taig CNC mill- I have the servos installed, the electronics are here and I am ready to purchase my vise, but I need to know what people reccommend as far as beginner's machine shop tools go. I would appreciate links from Littlemachineshop or ebay, but I can definitely jive with other sites

Thanks so much guys

[WRMorrison]

I don't have any direct links to the products, but I get most of my tools (I'm a lowly CNC aerospace machinist) and other things from:

http://www.use-enco.com
http://www.mscdirect.com
http://www.travers.com

You'll definitely want to get a 6" caliper (I prefer dial, but that's just me). Some good brands to choose from are Starrett, Mitutoyo, Brown & Sharpe, Etalon, etc. You'll also want to get a dial indicator. Interapid is the best brand I've used for indicators, but I've had good luck with XTest as well (I think they're made by Fowler?) Another must have is an edge finder. Electronic/Laser edge finders are nice, but you definitely don't need them, a regular one will serve you just fine. Some more must haves: thin set of parallels, vise stops, 0-3 mic. set with standards, etc., etc.

It really all depends on what you plan to machine, what are the tolerances, and how often you plan to use your mill. Often, you can get away with the cheaper tools if you don't have to hold +/-.0025 tolerances. If you plan to machine anything with tighter tolerances than that, then stick to the good tools

-WRM

[Burn]

Great, thanks for getting me started

Could you give me a general list of tools required? So far, from your suggestions and my own knowledge I need the following:

Edge Finder (Does it have to be Starrett? I am going to get one with a 3/8" shank)
Calipers (Again, not sure on the accuracy, but can someone give me a model that they use with a decent price range? Preferably <$100.)
Dial Indicator (Again, a model number would be great- I have no experience, remember )
Parallels (What are these used for again?)
Micrometer set (Again, looking for a model or a link)

Should I be looking into a clamping kit using T-slots? As in 1-2-3 blocks, etc.?

Thanks again for the help

[WRMorrison]

Edge finder definitely does not have to be starrett, I believe the ones I use are whatever's on sale at the time. Good calipers under $100; check out Mitutoyo, they're usually around $70-80 if memory serves. Parallels are used to set something clamped in a vise to a certain height (among other things), and you'll use them a lot (if you're clamping parts in a vise, that is). You'll definitely also want a clamping set, but you don't need the biggest set available; usually a 20pc. set is more than enough. 1,2,3 blocks (along with 2,4,6 blocks) come in handy from time to time, but I don't use mine much (except for checking certain parts after machining).

As far as mic. sets are concerned, it's really up to you. I use starrett, but a co-worker of mine uses the cheap chinese imports (about $30 or so for 0-3") with good success. He checks them frequently to see if the zero has changed, but only a couple times per year does he see fluctuations. I say that if you're not going to do this for a living, go with the cheap set and make sure it comes with standards for checking. Also, you may or not want them to be able to read to .0001, it's up to you.

I think a starter set like this would work well for you:

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?P...&PARTPG=INLMK3

and you could always add to it from there.

Here are the parallels that I use at work:

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?P...&PARTPG=INLMK3

and these at home:

http://www.littlemachineshop.com/pro...gory=988300808

This edge finder would probably work well for you:

http://www.littlemachineshop.com/pro...1240&category=

Here's the mics. that a co-worker of mine uses (pretty much, different color):

http://www.littlemachineshop.com/pro...ory=1310310429

That should get you started

-WRM

[Burn]

Great, thanks so much! Is there much difference between the Enco and the LMS parallels you linked, or are they the same?

[Burn]

Sorry for the DP :\

I noticed the LMS set is more accurate than the Enco one, but does the decreased length of the LMS set make a difference for my application? I am primarily using the mill to machine out copper and Delrin.

[WRMorrison]

It shouldn't make a difference at all. The only reason I use the LMS parallels at home is because they're 3" long (the same width as my vise) as opposed to 6" For what I do, the accuracy isn't too much of an issue. At work, I mainly CNC everything, but now and then, some things need a touch of 2nd. op work (say, tapping a hole that the 4 axis mill can't reach due to previous operator stupidity when building fixtures). If it goes in the vise, then those are the parallels I use.

-WRM

[Burn]

http://www.littlemachineshop.com/pro...ProductID=1590

That's the vise I'm going to be using. The jaw width seems to be 2.88", so I think I am going to go ahead and grab the LMS set. No sense in buying anything longer, right?

[Burn]

Okay, just to provide an update:

I have decided to buy the following:

These Parallels, 3" long

This vise, 3" Screwless

This Edge Finder

This Micrometer set (Is this accurate enough for my purposes? I'm not looking to hold insane tolerances, but for measuring purposes is it accurate enough?)

These calipers, 0.001" accuracy I think is good enough for my purposes. Anyone want to agree/disagree?

WRMorrison, I would buy that "starter set" you listed, but would I be better off purchasing some vernier calipers and a ruler, considering I'll already have the other stuff in the kit?

Also, I need to make sure I have something to square the head of my mill with the table. Called "Tramming", I believe. Anyone want to reccomend a tool to do it? I heard a dial indicator setup does the trick.

[digits]

Tramming - one of my least favourite tasks!

I would recommend using a dial indicator for that (it's the one with the plunger, not the swinging arm (Dial Test Indicator)) as the initial tram can be so badly off that you go off the end of your DTI, or spin it round the scale twice, which is very confusing as it doesn't count the whole revolutions, unlike the Dial Indicator.

You will also need a way to get your DI mounted such that you can spin it in your spindle and have it trace out a circle on your table.

HTH.

[Burn]

Okay, so do I need a Dial Test Indicator or a Dial Indicator? I saw this kit from LMS that appears to have both: http://www.littlemachineshop.com/pro...=2925&category

Does that kit have everything I need to tram the headstock?

[Burn]

Okay, decided to go with the kit I listed in post 11. Also, I need to buy one of these Crydon relays to drive the one relay output of the PMDX-122: http://cgi.ebay.com/CRYDOM-D2425-Sol...QQcmdZViewItem

[Burn]

Okay, to throw together a semi-finalized list:

Electronic Digital Caliper, 6" - SUPER SALE
Dial Indicator, Test Indicator, Magnetic Base & Point Set
Thin Parallels, 3" Long 10 Pairs
Vise, 3" Screwless
Clamps, Screwless Vise
Edge and Center Finder
Micrometer Set, 0-3"
Crydom Relay
Still need to find a set of 2-flute endmills that top out in shank size at 3/8".

[Burn]

Alright, I am trying to finalize my list of stuff that needs to be ordered. Is there anything else that I should be ordering? The list is in post 13.

Thanks guys

[in2steam]

Alright, I am trying to finalize my list of stuff that needs to be ordered. Is there anything else that I should be ordering? The list is in post 13.

Thanks guys

A good set of squares(machinst) and a combo sqaure with angle finder and center finder are indespensible. With the combo I would by better name on these, the cheap ones tend to bind and have grinding issues I use starret myself the machinst squares are enco ones. These aid in layout and setups, anohter thing to consider is a small granite(12"x12") plate and possible a height gauge these make layouts easier the last one I got cost more to ship then the actual plate so be warned both were from enco.

chris

[wizard]

Looks like you already have gotten good direction, but I will ad my two cents.

About the Calipers, if there is one place not to skimp it is the calipers. I use Mitutoyo as these seem to be market leaders and of good quality. 6" inch is the common size found in most shops, but there are other sizes available. I also prefer digital, for one thing the eyes aren't what they use to be and for another the digital are more flexible in my estimation.

As for the tools like Micrometers and such I guess you can be more flexible here. What I would recommend though is looking at student sets that Starrett sells. The Student set is S903Z or S903MZ., then S904Z, then S908Z. The S904Z being a nice starting point except for the dial caliper. Generally I like Starrett but Mitutoyo has me sold on their digital calipers. The good part with kits like this is you get the basics in one shot and you effectively get started. The bad thing is that if you don't like or use a specific instrument you end up spending good bucks on what amounts to useless stuff. Of course many other manufactures make student kits, but you might not be supporting an American manufacture by going that route.

One thing that I've always liked having available is a tachometer. This might not be an issue for standard drive laths but if you happen to put on a variable speed drive they could be very useful. At this point a tach is likely a extravagance.

Hammers of the brass and plastic type come in handy.

A shavy and other deburring tools can be extremely handy to have.

A good protractor is handy.

A collection of diamond honing 'stones' come in handy especially if you are using high speed tooling.

Basic Mechanical tools which you apparently already have.

Oiling and lubrication tools (cans, spray bottles & etc)

Magnifying glass with illumination. (remember I'm getting old) Sometimes a loupe does well also. Try http://www.edmundoptics.com/ as an alternative source for optical stuff and even some tools.

As to your questions along the lines of is it good enough. I haven't checked into what LMS is selling but do realize that reputation is a key factor. There may be very good Chinese tools available but I don't know who has the track record here. For the items that you expect to use constantly it pays to buy quality. The other things can be of lesser quality, but not cheap. For example avoid the $7.00 hardware store squares as they are seldom square, nor does the aluminum last long.


Dave

[in2steam]

As to your questions along the lines of is it good enough. I haven't checked into what LMS is selling but do realize that reputation is a key factor. There may be very good Chinese tools available but I don't know who has the track record here. For the items that you expect to use constantly it pays to buy quality. The other things can be of lesser quality, but not cheap. For example avoid the $7.00 hardware store squares as they are seldom square, nor does the aluminum last long.


Dave

I disagree with dave on calipers, I think that good, vs very good is the way to go, I have damaged too many sets to keep buying the $150 ones, I stick to the 50-60 dollar ones now. Mics on the other hand I buy good ones, I prefer older ones from starret or B&S, the iron is stable in them and they rarely need to be recalibrated, digitals are nice also but don't always like coolant.

As for were to buy I agree with Dave here, but its easy to buy something thats put into the box and never to return out again, either form ignorance of use or lack of need. I purchased a very expensive set of thick parallels which were never used once nor ever needed for what I do, I was just told I needed them...
Just like the 1-2-3 blocks I made when I went through school, they make a nice paper weight, for me I have found little use, it really depends upon what you need to do. As for supporting an american industry, its nice to think that, but if you are buying it in the usa you are supporting a usa enterprise, very few companies in this day and age are only american, the simple fact of the matter is most counties require you to make(employ workers) something in there country to sell in there country after that its all down hill. I think that its more important to get what you need, then just get something because its made here(or thought to be made here). But on the same tolken you typically get what you pay for.

If we ever tick off china we are in a world of hurt and thats no lie.

chris

[Burn]

Okay, so I guess I am now looking for some better calipers? I can't afford the expensive Starrett ones, so can anyone recommend a good $40-50 set? Thanks everyone for the help so far!

[in2steam]

Go to MSC and type in caliper, some of the ones I have owned include SPI fowler and MAHR ( I like MAHR digital the best) all around 50-70 dollars. I am more of a ham fisted knuckle dragger so I go through them because of stuipd/smooth moves. I usally pay around $20-$30 for a good used mic per inch of opening. The last time I bought a new one I decided to drop it into a boiler, which it did not survive the fall.

chris

[wizard]

I disagree with dave on calipers, I think that good, vs very good is the way to go, I have damaged too many sets to keep buying the $150 ones, I stick to the 50-60 dollar ones now. Mics on the other hand I buy good ones, I prefer older ones from starret or B&S, the iron is stable in them and they rarely need to be recalibrated, digitals are nice also but don't always like coolant.

I guess we have to disagree here. In reality it depends on how you work and what your expectations are with regards to tolerances. For example you would not likely want to make use of a caliper to measure a bearing surface.

I have found though that caliper do it for me and the type of work I do, so generally they are the first thing I reach for.

As for were to buy I agree with Dave here, but its easy to buy something thats put into the box and never to return out again, either form ignorance of use or lack of need. I purchased a very expensive set of thick parallels which were never used once nor ever needed for what I do, I was just told I needed them...

This is a real problem, it is very easy to go overboard at first and buy to much "stuff". That is why I think you see many here just recommending the basic tools. Some of the basic tools by the way are also usable for wood working so at least your investment is multi purpose.

Just like the 1-2-3 blocks I made when I went through school, they make a nice paper weight, for me I have found little use, it really depends upon what you need to do. As for supporting an american industry, its nice to think that, but if you are buying it in the usa you are supporting a usa enterprise, very few companies in this day and age are only american, the simple fact of the matter is most counties require you to make(employ workers) something in there country to sell in there country after that its all down hill.

I think this is a very negative way to look at things. An American company is still an American company even if it has plants in Brazil or Russia. It is a matter of quality control and a wiliness to compete with the competition. Starrett for example makes very good hacksaw blades (some might say the best) in Brazil, that doesn't make the company un American. They still have their commitment to quality.

I think that its more important to get what you need, then just get something because its made here(or thought to be made here). But on the same tolken you typically get what you pay for.

The thought with the suggestion of Starrett is that yo get quality and possibly American made components. Starrrett does have stuff that is apparently imported from China but that is a small portion of their catalog. Frankly I think the stuff is only in the catalog to allow them to compete with the mass importation of really cheap (as in shoddy) Chinese stuff. Starrett isn't the only choice for quality tooling as there are manufactures other than Starrrett in the US, Japan and Europe that have items of similar quality.

If we ever tick off china we are in a world of hurt and thats no lie.

Yes and No. If we tick off China it is likely to lead to an almost immediate nuclear war. I do believe under those conditions china would be hurting to a much larger extent than the US. Mainly due to population density.

chris

Dave