[slatronic]

I recently got a NM-135 mill from Novakon. I'm having issues with the spindle startup. It's under mach3 control both on/off and speed. I have a thread going on the Novakon forum but there's not as much help over there. A few guys have suggested some stuff but nothing has helped.

The problem is the spindle will start up most of the time but once out of every 10 times maybe it will just turn quarter turn then stop. Sometimes too it will get nearly up to speed and shut down. Then today it was doing just that again then it quit working all together until I restarted the computer. I've tried the default novakon settings, messing around with both the spindle settings and motor tuning. I also ran a new circuit today for the cnc to see if cleaner power might help. It's set to PWM. I'm not sure if this is a motor control issue or a mach3 issue. One of my guesses is noisy ground or faulty wiring. But this is getting a bit above my head.

[David Da Costa]

What about it being a PC problem. Any chance of putting Mach 3 on another PC and trying that?

David

[ihavenofish]

It's set to PWM.

if memory serves, the spindle is not supposed to be set to pwm. this may have changed in recent models. ive not had any luck at all using pwm in mach with my gecko g540 on my novakon nm-070. i think pwm in mach isnt working 100%

[slatronic]

So can I just set it to step/dir control? I've watched Hoss's video on setting up his C6 board in mach3. This part is beyond my knowledge base. Don't want to let the smoke out of anything. Should I just pick up a C6 board and replace whats being used in the machine? I just want to make it work right.

David,
I don't have an extra PC laying around unfortunately. I got the CD-100 with the computer upgrade. My everyday computer is a mac. PC's drive me nuts. But you need to use them, especially for this type of work.


THX

[ihavenofish]

So can I just set it to step/dir control? I've watched Hoss's video on setting up his C6 board in mach3. This part is beyond my knowledge base. Don't want to let the smoke out of anything. Should I just pick up a C6 board and replace whats being used in the machine? I just want to make it work right.
THX

i think the macine is using a c6 actually. you should email novakon and ask them what to do. my info may be out of date here.

[Crevice Reamer]

Look for bad solder joints or loose wiring. SOP on Chinese machines is to tug-test all wiring terminals.

Also make sure your daughter board is pushed in tightly.

CR.

[slatronic]

i think the macine is using a c6 actually. you should email novakon and ask them what to do. my info may be out of date here.

Looking at some more info, it has a C11G board which has step/dir control built in. Nothing is wired to the pins though. I'm kinda confused from here though. I asked for a wiring diagram so I dont have to chase down wires. Looking at the manual for the C11 board I'm slightly confused but I'll read it a few more times and hopefully I can figure it out. I'll watch Hoss's video again too and maybe I can pick up something else.

CR,
I have pulled on wires and checked screw connectors and all seems to be fine. But I'm now expert electrician, just know enough to get myself into trouble most of the time. There was some loose ones when I did initial clean up.

THX

[David Da Costa]

I went through my Mach 3 setup with the Novakon tech on the phone as when I first set it up using the Mach3 config file I downloaded from there site the mill would not work.

It definitely should be set to PMW and mine is working fine with that. My NM-135 is the same generation as yours (delivered a few days after yours.

I suspect that it is a loose wire, dry solder joint or faulty motor or possibly a bad Mach 3 signal being sent via your parallel port. I don't think a Mach 3 setting would produce the kind of faults you are seeing.

David

[slatronic]

I think loose wiring it is. I checked it twice today just to make sure. After pulling on the crimps on the motor control board I pulled 3 wires out of crimps. I'm gonna pick up some new ones and give it a try this weekend. I'll have some more time to put into this weekend. I hoping by Monday it's up a running normal.

[slatronic]

I was able to go out and get some crimps this afternoon and no luck. Still works the same as before. I'll go through everything tomorrow. I think rewiring for step/dir is the way to go.

[slatronic]

Here's a video of what' going on. Sorry, it's my first video and youtube upload. I love my iPhone. But anyways, you can see it either barely turns or spins up then stops. The last one started right. You can hear the relay clicking when I push F5. Its looks like the pin16 LED lights up too when spindle is active and nothing is wired to pin16. This seems weird to me cause motor is hooked up to pin14, which its LED is always on along with pin17 LED.
The pins and LED are on left side of board. The last five pins are 9,14,com,16,17. The LEDs from I can tell corrispond to pin activity.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5iodCFXgkk"]YouTube- NM-135 Spindle Motor Trouble[/ame]

[Crevice Reamer]

That sounds exactly like a thermal fuse--heating, breaking contact, cooling, making contact.

I don't think there IS a thermal fuse though, so this problem must be a component or circuit trace that is expanding and contracting. Can you post a closeup pic of the entire motor control board please?

CR.

[slatronic]

CR,

It is the same board that TacPyro had for sale yesterday. I'm assuming you picked that up. The pictures aren't up anymore but I'm going in later to clean. So I'll take a few later. There is also buzz/humm coming from motor control board. Is that normal? THX

[Crevice Reamer]

CR,

It is the same board that TacPyro had for sale yesterday. I'm assuming you picked that up.

I don't have the board yet. This has suddenly gotten personal for me. It seems that your problem now may become MY problem soon. Now we've GOT to find a solution. LOL!

The pictures aren't up anymore but I'm going in later to clean. So I'll take a few later.

Please do.

There is also buzz/humm coming from motor control board. Is that normal? THX

That may be normal. There is a step-up transformer from 110 to 300V and a control relay. Either could hum.

Since this board is 300V instead of the previous 220V, I suspect something in the new board (AFTER the 300V transformer) has not been sized for the increased Voltage--maybe a capacitor, resistor or circuit trace too small--Something is heating/expanding/breaking contact. It also could be a cracked circuit trace.

It might be worthwhile to spray some circuit chiller or the like, on different components, and see if anything allows longer run time when chilled.

http://www.interstateproducts.com/electronics.htm

http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=2102648

CR.

[ihavenofish]

That sounds exactly like a thermal fuse--heating, breaking contact, cooling, making contact.

I don't think there IS a thermal fuse though, so this problem must be a component or circuit trace that is expanding and contracting. Can you post a closeup pic of the entire motor control board please?

CR.

could be on the vfd board in the machine as well, not just the controller.

i think your on the right track with some sort of heat cutout, be it mechanical or intentional in the electronics.

[slatronic]

That makes sense to me. Cause before I shot the video it started up 15 times in a row. Then it started to act funny, then thats when I shot video to show what was happening. Shortly after that it started to not respond at all until I completely restarted computer. It seems to work better at lower RPM's then as I start to crank up to higher speeds it starts to act up. I usually start at 1000 RPM and start/stop 5-10 times. Then I try 2500. Then 4000 and then 6000. Usually it makes it through 1000 RPM perfect, though on occasion it happens the first time I try to start spindle. Most of the time it starts acting up around 4000 RPM. Seems like 5000 and over is when it has the problem with starting to get up to full speed and shuts down most often. But it does the quarter turn start/stop through all speeds tried. The spindle usually reverses slightly after stopping.

I took some photos but I forgot my card reader at the shop and I can't find the right cable for camera. I may need to head back and take some more photos.

[David Da Costa]

The axis drives in the Novakon CD-100 controller (which is what this is) are Gecko G203V drivers.


David

[slatronic]

Here's the pics of the board in the back of the machine. I also took a pic of the motor nameplate and the board nameplate. The board says 220v and the motor says 300v. Is that the issue? Also there is a sensor of some type wired between motor and spindle, does anyone know what that may be?

[Crevice Reamer]

Here's the pics of the board in the back of the machine. I also took a pic of the motor nameplate and the board nameplate. The board says 220v and the motor says 300v. Is that the issue? Also there is a sensor of some type wired between motor and spindle, does anyone know what that may be?

The thing in the spindle looks like a piezo buzzer.

I would warm it up until it's stopping, and then spray the whole board with component cooler and see if it runs for longer after that. If no change, then it's nothing we can see on the board. (There ARE components UNDER the daughter board--Which IS pushed firmly IN I presume?) If spraying the whole board helps, then I would mentally mark off the board in octant grids and start testing each grid with the spray. By process of elimination and narrowing down the field, you can find a bad component.

CR.

[SCzEngrgGroup]

The thing in the spindle looks like a piezo buzzer.

I would warm it up until it's stopping, and then spray the whole board with component cooler and see if it runs for longer after that. If no change, then it's nothing we can see on the board. (There ARE components UNDER the daughter board--Which IS pushed firmly IN I presume?) If spraying the whole board helps, then I would mentally mark off the board in octant grids and start testing each grid with the spray. By process of elimination and narrowing down the field, you can find a bad component.

CR.

"The thing in the spindle looks like a piezo buzzer." - If you're talking about the thingie with the two wires in the top view of the spindle housing, it's a snap-action thermal switch, undoubtedly used to shut down the motor controller if the spindle housing gets too hot. The nominal switch temperature should be stamped on the under-side.

Regards,
Ray L.