537,776 active members*
4,231 visitors online*
Register for free
Login
IndustryArena Forum > MetalWorking Machines > Okuma > Okuma LB3000-EX MYW 800
Results 1 to 19 of 19
  1. #1
    Registered
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Posts
    6

    Okuma LB3000-EX MYW 800

    Hi,

    We are a lighting company in Australia, custom designing a range of generally small-ish (20~60mm OD, 50~300mm length) components that are currently machined or cast+machined in Asia and imported. For a number of reasons including cost, quality control, time-to-market etc, we are considering acquiring an Okuma LB-3000-EX MYW-800. This is the model that's been recommended to us by the Okuma rep. We need the milling capability and Y-axis to ensure we can machine the widest possibly range of designs as automatically as possible. We have no in-house experience with CNC machining at the moment, but will be hiring an experienced person to manage the setup and programming etc. Most of our parts are quite simple.

    Anyway,

    1. Can anybody with experience of this machine or similar give an opinion as to the virtues of the Okuma?
    2. Are we looking at a Rolls Royce when a Toyota would suffice?
    3. Would [insert other brand here, eg. DMG-MORI] offer more (or less) features at the same price point?
    4. Are there particular quirks to the Okuma that should be noted? (I appreciate the programming approaches differ between brands).
    5. Is a CAM system suggested or will IGF/AOT system be enough for most parts?

    Thanks for any input offered - I appreciate any advice at all!

    Nick

  2. #2
    Registered
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    303

    Re: Okuma LB3000-EX MYW 800

    1. I've worked on a number of projects that were centered around Okuma machines - and every time, I am surprised by their rigidity, stability, and accuracy. We set up 7 machines, fully tooled (50+ tools per machine) and ran off 3 weeks of parts at the customer's facility. The machines were holding jig grinder tolerances - out of 300-ish features, they were holding ~20 features to within 20 micron (0.020mm) tolerances on size and location. A current project is re-tasking a half dozen LU machines to a new component. These machines are 3 years old, and with new tooling and workholding for the new product line, are hitting several 15-micron tolerances, as well as an angled slot being held to a ±0°5' tolerance to a cpk of 2.5 over a 300 pc run. The Okuma control is not a huge leap from Fanuc or Fanuc clones, so a very pleasant learning curve.
    2. You are looking at the Rolls Royce of the industry, but without knowing your components or their details, I can't say if a Toyota (Mazak) or even a Pinto (Haas) would be sufficient.
    3. Features are great - if you actually need them. In my experience, durability and longevity are key, additional functionality can usually be added with a software upgrade if the need arises. Machines that come with High-Pressure, High-Speed, 256-Axis, Automatic Everything, Web-connected, Skynet-level AI, and enough bonus options to stuff a pony are mostly worthless if the underlying machine and basic control can't stand the test of actual long-term performance.
    4. The ability to use custom-defined local variable names is very nice - that is, you can use nearly any four-letter 'word' as a variable, rather than the cryptic #501 format. Custom-writing M-code functions make it very easy to personalize your machine for moves/cuts/logic that is specific to your parts or your facility. Beyond that, the control has pretty much the same capabilities as any other (although mid-cycle manual and editing is sweet!)
    5. Your mileage may vary - the conversational is pretty nice (light years ahead of the Mazak conversational IMHO) but I'm an old G-code guy, so my opinion may be slanted. I generally only use a CAM system for complex cutter paths, and do most programming at the control or in a text editor.

    The LB line has always been very robust, I think you'll be happy with it for a very long time.

  3. #3
    Registered
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Posts
    6

    Re: Okuma LB3000-EX MYW 800

    Hi Ghyman,

    Thanks for the detailed reply!

    In terms of features, I've not really after all the bells and whistles but yes, something that can produce what we need it to produce reliably and repeatedly. I've gathered a few bad stories of people opting for cheaper (much cheaper) units of similar initial capability, only to have sit idle for months waiting for something to get fixed. Okuma support here is pretty good apparently so even if something does happen, I don't expect to be kept waiting.

    Thanks again

  4. #4
    Registered
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    372

    Re: Okuma LB3000-EX MYW 800

    Nick,

    Okuma support is Australia is good, I would say better than there peers in my experience, they have local Sydney based, service and appliactions which is pretty important when moving into CNC. Okuma machine are solid. As for software well that really comes down to what you want to make and how complex it is. If the parts are have simple turning, drilling pocketing then IGF may surfice

  5. #5
    Registered
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    287

    Re: Okuma LB3000-EX MYW 800

    I apologize for being late to the conversation. (as though my opinion holds any weight)
    1. The LB3000MYW machine will not leave you wanting. I prefer the Y axis on any lathe if only to put turning tools on spindle centerline while turning, so be sure to look for the off center turning function (i think that's what it's called) to allow feeding the machine while the Y axis is not at "turning position". This is only software so if you need it and the machine doesn't have it, only software is needed. As for virtues of Okuma, that is a topic of debate. They are not perfect if that's what you are looking for. If you want perfect, you are looking for a Unicorn. I appreciate the lack of back and forth between control maker and machine builder. IE: Fanuc blames Kitamura, Kitamura blames Fanuc. Neither company wants to help with an issue which leaves me angry at both. And the machine down. Okuma makes their own control, so they can't point at anyone else. They use distributors, so occasionally, Okuma America (or Australia in your case) and or Japan need to be contacted which is less than expedient at times, though I imagine it is shorter when you're in the same time zone as opposed to on a different day.
    2. As for Rolls Royce/Toyota, I would say more like a VW. Great tech and innovations, better than the Japanese(automakers) for overall build quality, and a bit quirky in their handling of sales/service compared to the Toyotas of the world. However, not quite as pretty as some out there. However, I don't buy machines to be pretty, I buy them to make parts. And today they make parts exceeding quality expectations. And tomorrow. And the next day. And the next...
    3. As for features, I'm not sure what you're after. I would recommend finding someone local(ish) who doesn't have a dog in the fight and ask them their opinion and go see their (comparable/identical) machine. If features are what you're after, the machine again doesn't leave you wanting, but it's easy to fall in love with the idea of an option rather than have a practical need for it, as ghyman iterated above/below (depending on if you're logged in to this website or not) so eloquently.
    4. This question is slightly loaded. I think every machine and maker have quirks. Okuma lathes vs. Okuma mills, for example, use V# and VC# respectively to designate common variables. However, you can use VC[#] in both. You won't be diving in and changing the ladder around like one would in a Fanuc machine, though I've never found the need on an Okuma. Older mills have a quirk that if you command T1 M6 while T1 is in the spindle, you will get an alarm. A vast majority of users have a G11# macro for tool change to prevent the alarm. The new control added a parameter for this, though if you have older machines too you probably still use the macro like me.
    5. As an old school G/M code guy, if the part is production, I prefer to hand write the codes. Factually, the program will run faster than a posted program if you take the time to make it so. All posted programs are designed to simplify programming to expedite that process, alternatively; making the part quickly is secondary. On 10s of parts, or 100's of parts, not that big a deal in time savings, use AOT, but if you're looking at 1000's or more of parts, you should be hand writing them IMHO. Also, if you have a limited number of parts to be in the machine, IE: Machine bought with 10-15 specific parts in mind, AOT is useful at first, but by the time it is used again you will forget how to use it. Is it enough for most parts? Yes. Will you need it? I have no idea.

    Basically: What he (ghyman) said.

    To supplement the LB comment, I have a friend who owns LB15 machines to make parts all day every day (aside from general maintenance which is higher on older machines in general). The machines are literally older than he is. (produced in 1983)

    Don't forget to share what you decide

  6. #6
    Registered
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Posts
    6

    Re: Okuma LB3000-EX MYW 800

    Thanks teahole for the detailed reply (also budgieW for your comment too).

    We are still progressing, I've had both Okuma & DMG quote now, quite similar prices for the package and mostly similar specs with a few notable differences (live tool RPM, bar stock capacity, max turning length). The DMG machines look better imho, but as you say teahole that's not really a viable factor to base an investment of this sort on!

    We'll be making a decision within the next 4-6 weeks, so will reply back here for the record with what we do.

  7. #7
    Registered
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Posts
    7

    Re: Okuma LB3000-EX MYW 800

    Hi, i use an Okuma LB3000EXII MY 1000.

    Rigidity, affidability for the future and accuracy are the best.

    OSP-P300 is a good software, i prefer use traditional G code but IGF is not impossible to use.

    Just a tip, purchase optional for Y turning and optional for the M185 code (rotation of the spindle if the spindle is open).

    If you look other brand look only Dmg Mori but Mori Seiki machine, not other... i hope you look the NLX model, no CTX...

  8. #8
    Registered
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Posts
    6

    Re: Okuma LB3000-EX MYW 800

    Thanks again to those who replied, it's really helped.

    We are getting closer to making our final decision on this machine and have a decision that we are a bit stuck on:

    Standard Hinge filter or Drum Filter for an extra ~$20K.

    We are machining Brass & Aluminium 90% of the time and we are being told that the drum filter whilst expensive will save significant time on coolant tank clean-outs and general conveyor cleaning. We just have no actual experience to be able to quantify how much time that actually is. If it really is a lot, then we'd consider it even with the extra expense.

    Thanks again for any input!

  9. #9
    Registered
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Posts
    7

    Re: Okuma LB3000-EX MYW 800

    For italian market standard conveyor is from company "mayfran" and is not good for aluminium.

    For small lots is not a big problem but for me, in a big production, is a problem and is better change type of conveyor with filter and other.

  10. #10
    Registered
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    1118

    Re: Okuma LB3000-EX MYW 800

    If you are going to do a lot of aluminum and brass, the chips will float and go everywhere, so I'd get the drum style even with the extra expense. It will pay for itself. I'd go with the Okuma since you are running smallish higher volume parts. The okuma has the ability to power up and go with no zero return, can check it's own switches for proper setting, I'd also get it because of the load monitoring capability and the ability to upload download your setup information including load monitor with each job using a "TOP" file. Standard 3D graphics also help you considerably, although the P300 is a step backwards IMHO compared to the ease of the P200. They claim they are brining back the "easier graphics" but so far have floundered. The LB is one of their best and will give you years of high accuracy parts and while different from other controls, most people find them easier and more logical to use. EOB insert will be a thing of the past.

    OK, start firing boys!

    Best regards,
    Experience is what you get just after you needed it.

  11. #11
    Registered
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    1422

    Re: Okuma LB3000-EX MYW 800

    additionally about IGF. Just give a time to try. IGF is perfect when you understand it. It needs proper set up at the beginning. You set your strategies one-by-one and go. The part programming is easy as drawing the shape of it.

  12. #12
    Registered
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    287
    Agree to buy the drum filter.
    Disagree the p300 graphics is more difficult. Tooling may be slightly more cumbersome but the functionality and power of the tie in with AOT and CAS is substantially better. The material graphics of it are incredibly easy comparatively.
    PT,LF,LC[0,0],[50,50],[80,0],4
    That's archaic.
    The new update does allow AOT to attach tooling and you can highlight positions and define tools similar to the old way. I didn't like it when I saw it but some might.

    Hope you get it figured out.

  13. #13
    Registered
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    287
    Quote Originally Posted by Algirdas View Post
    additionally about IGF. Just give a time to try. IGF is perfect when you understand it. It needs proper set up at the beginning. You set your strategies one-by-one and go. The part programming is easy as drawing the shape of it.
    Disagree on this.

    IE: the pickoff only allows part transfer but I never just transfer. In my barfed parts I always pull with the sub spindle. No way to do that sans g/m code.
    Will say I used the DXF feature recently and damn. That's just too easy. Limitations on live tooling operations that interface with it but holy cow.
    If it were my money I wouldn't buy it but I'm not writing the checks so my vote only counts for so much.

  14. #14
    Registered
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Posts
    6

    Re: Okuma LB3000-EX MYW 800

    Thanks all again for your input.

    Re the drum filter, it seems we are being persuaded in that direction! I really don't want us to find out 6~12months down the track with our heads in the coolant tanks more often than we'd like.

    Regarding AOT/IGF/P200 vs 300 etc - I guess we will get into that in due course and find out for ourselves.

    Teahole: I will ask our Okuma rep about the DXF feature and also the fact that IGF can't let you 'pull' the bar stock with the sub spindle, only pure transfer.

    Thanks again! Will update with our decision.

  15. #15
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    3271

    Re: Okuma LB3000-EX MYW 800

    ..

  16. #16
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    3271

    Re: Okuma LB3000-EX MYW 800

    Quote Originally Posted by ghyman View Post
    1. I've worked on ....

    The LB line has always been very robust, I think you'll be happy with it for a very long time.
    // nick888, this reply is not to your post ... please, you may find my opinion at #17

    - some one loved one machine-mechanics so much, and give it a 2nd chance by replacing all electronics, not with new ones, but another control

    - also, i am not lucky, a new lathe got wear on X axis guide/sadle/ ?(don't know englis word) : 0.05 in less than one year, without much working


    considering a medium cnc performance = P,at price $, than okuma is PxA, at price $xB ... B/A > supraunitar, so maybe sometimes is better to buy more machines at a lower price, instead of a cheaper one

    medium performance = P
    okuma performance = PxA
    parts required performance = P .... PxA *0.8

    do some rough things on a PxA machine, and performance will decrease in time
    so put rough on P machine, and consider fine touches on PxA machine
    you lose time with moving parts between machines: so you use and mantain machine capabilites,

    but you lose time

    only in a mass production factory can these be seen
    hope you have such a factory )

    this can go on and on

    i would like to build such machines, because mechanics are limited by electronics and you can't do some jobs, must look for a way around, etc ...

    well, i wish you the best !

  17. #17
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    3271

    Re: Okuma LB3000-EX MYW 800

    Quote Originally Posted by nick888 View Post
    Hi,

    We are a lighting company in Australia, ered - I appreciate any advice at all!

    Nick
    Hi, i think you started to make an idea about what to do, and, well, begining is hard

    In my opinion, for [o20 .. o60]x[50 .. 300], LB3000 is big ... i know, maybe you were told that machine is good, and will open new horizonts
    For small parts you need a machine that can get high in rpm.
    So, if you are sure about your quantity and type of parts, than consider "chuck size" as a criteria to select a cnc.
    Bigger the chuck, bigger the machined diameter ... no way LB300 will perform like a smaller chuck machine. Dont think to put a smaller chuck on a biger machine, because machine will not go so nice at 3000rpm compared to smaller machines.
    So, if you are sure a about parts dimensions, consider a smaller machine.
    Also consider this : Standard machine price A at 300mm between centers, 500mm A+bit, 1000mm A+2bits / numbers are relative / consider that choosing a longer machine, won't cost that much compared to the standard machine

    1) go somewhere where someone has experience with different machines, doing same things ... ?!
    2) what precision do you need ? put a draw with your complex parts that you expect to machine ... maybe 0.5 tolerance is good for you, and you can use a wood-lathe .... what i am saing is that parts are for industries with different precisions .... also, how many tools do you expect to use on a part ? turret has 12 ? is it ok ? do you know about middle index function ? so turret will have 12*2indexing positions, and this may be good for small parts
    3) this is market, prices of things may vary .... but, you are right : at same price, you can get more or less features )
    4) i just worked on Okuma, and is ok ...
    5) igf is a good start point ....


    So, if you are sure about your future production, dont buy a too big / too small machine.
    See how much this parts will cost you, and how much of your expected profit will impact into machine cost ?
    If your parts are simple, such math is done easily ... i can help you if you wish.
    After that find a guy that knows the machine, so to begin fast

    Otherwise, if you/someone has interest, will learn the machine in about 2 years?!?! ... also, many buy cnc's, but not many understands how to use them, or they know how to use them, but they don't know what to do, so they use it for non-profit things ... is like guys with expensive cars that put gas for small money ...


    If i may suggest, upload some drawings, and expected quantity.

  18. #18
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    3271

    Re: Okuma LB3000-EX MYW 800

    Quote Originally Posted by nick888 View Post
    Hi, ciate any advice at all!

    Nick
    After you define your parts diameter and tolerances, please consider " inner diameter of hidraulic cilinder ", so to be able, for example, to use a material this size, o60 x 750, through your chuck.
    As far as i know, standard inner diameter on LB3000 is 70 ( please check this ),.
    A 10"chuck is big for 60mm parts, but i dont think that there exist smaller machines with "through cilinder hole" > 60 ... this should be checked.
    Also, you can choose for a 'big bore specs', which means that machine will be delivered with a bigger "through cilinder hole", that i know that is 80 ( please check this ).

    Lets say that you agreed on Okuma lathe precision, so machine can execute your parts at desired acuracy,
    in this moment, i would suggest that you ask for this price offers :

    - price request 1
    - standard machine MYW
    - list of optionals :
    .............- big bore specs ( larger through hidraulic cilinder hole )
    .............- more powerful W axis ( is an option to buy a more powerful tailstock system )
    .............- more powerful main spindle motor
    .............- updated coolant presure system
    .............- steady rest
    .............- 2nd spindle sound nice, but don't rush into it
    .............- and others ....

    - price request 2
    - standard machine MYW + increased distances between centers / lenght capacity
    - same optionals as above

    FIRST, i sugest to review togheter parts that you wish to execute ... and i think that standard machine from request 1 is good, even if i don't know your parts.
    Also, if money is not such a big a problem, you can go for some optionals, to invest in the future, so to have a more powerful machine, just in case.
    Some optionals can be added later, while others are built in, so let's configure your machine

    ESTIMATED PRODUCTION > DESIRED ACURACY > MACHINE > QUALIFIED PERSONEL > RESULTS IN 3 MONTHS

    If you are new to cncs, lets see what you wanna do; perhaps your parts have common tolerances, but i insist to view your parts because :
    - when you don't know what to buy i can sell you anything / not me
    - dealers only sell, few know capacity, disponibility, and all sels best machines in the world
    - you may negociate 10 ... 20k euros down ( - 10 % ), depending on payment, dealers stake, etc

    i state my pont ! hope this helps

    about aluminium / brass / non-ferous / are you kitting ?!?!? nice, it wil work very nice, just buy machinable material, not ones that sticks to your tools, use sharp tools and put potentiometers to 200% . . it will be music + load monitor
    you can go twice on depth and feed compared to steel, and the machine wont even feel that ...

  19. #19
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    3271

    Re: Okuma LB3000-EX MYW 800

    Quote Originally Posted by OkumaWiz View Post
    If you are going to do a lot of aluminum and brass, the chips will float and go everywhere, so I'd get the drum style even with the extra expense. It will pay for itself. I'd go with the Okuma since you are running smallish higher volume parts. The okuma has the ability to power up and go with no zero return, can check it's own switches for proper setting, I'd also get it because of the load monitoring capability and the ability to upload download your setup information including load monitor with each job using a "TOP" file. Standard 3D graphics also help you considerably, although the P300 is a step backwards IMHO compared to the ease of the P200. They claim they are brining back the "easier graphics" but so far have floundered. The LB is one of their best and will give you years of high accuracy parts and while different from other controls, most people find them easier and more logical to use. EOB insert will be a thing of the past.

    OK, start firing boys!

    Best regards,
    Please, what is a drum filter ? what it does, where it is located ? does it has a conection with the chip conveyor ? please enlight me

  20. #20
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    3271

    Re: Okuma LB3000-EX MYW 800

    i don't know what is a drum filter, but is there a chance to built it on your own, with costs signifiantly under 20k $, so to save money ?

    also, a new machine needs tools/holders/etc ... and this might hit 10-40k $, depending on what you do


    it was not about me trying to figure it out what a drum filter is ... i think is just a box

Similar Threads

  1. Post for a Okuma LB3000 MYW
    By 98RACE in forum EdgeCam
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 11-16-2017, 12:22 AM
  2. Replies: 4
    Last Post: 10-05-2014, 04:14 PM
  3. Replies: 4
    Last Post: 10-02-2014, 04:58 AM
  4. OKUMA LB3000 LIVE TOOLS
    By bigshooter in forum Okuma
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 06-07-2014, 12:57 AM
  5. OKUMA LB3000 CRASH
    By bigshooter in forum Okuma
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 04-27-2014, 02:20 AM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •