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IndustryArena Forum > MetalWorking Machines > Okuma > Okuma osp5000 Y-axis settings
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  1. #1

    Okuma osp5000 Y-axis settings

    Hello, does someone now how to properly set the Y axis on the okuma lr15-my with osp5000 control? I am a little confused what to put in the turning position parameter - 0.000 or the value, that i have on the Zero Set page for the YS axis? When i put this value in, then the YI value changes to the same number, otherwise the YS and YI are different by 30°. I just got that machine from an auction, need to lern how to operate the Y axis

  2. #2
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    Re: Okuma osp5000 Y-axis settings

    hy alymer i have a little experience with y turrets on p300, not 5000; here are a few tips :
    ... in many cases, alignment position is at Y<>0; is not possible to go in parameters, select X, and declare X0, simply because Y<>0
    ... there is a way arround this :
    ...... let's suppose that your alignment is at Y0.5 : disable Y axis( turret will move ), go to parameters and shift Y origin with ±0.5, then reactivate Y axis ( turret should come back to where it was before ), then disable Y axis ( turret won't move ) (check later *1 below)
    ...... at this moment, theoretically, is should be like the turret did not move at all : go to parameters, and declare X origin 0

    let's consider that you use a centro for this alignment :
    ... enabling & disabling Y axis, shifts the motor from "brake state" to "active state", and this may induce a centro deviation of a few hundreds
    ... if you are not satisfied with results after your 1st try, you should repeat all above steps, until you will be satisfied with what you see on the centro; normally, after each repetition, the deviation displayed by the centro should lower, but in reality, after a certain value, it will start to go up and down ( arround a "medium value" ), because Y axis motor shifts it's state, and also because of backlash ( 0.04 ... 0.03 should be enough; going for <0.01 will take you much more time, and won't be relevant )
    ... my advice : if you are centering for :
    ...... turning, always do your last check with Y axis disabled
    ...... milling, always do your last check with Y axis enabled



    (*1) more precise, turret may move, because Y axis will shift from " active " to " break ", and because of backlash; movement shoud be small (like <0.03eq, and also it won't be consistent ) ... so, if you will try to align your lathe at a precision <0.03eq, then you have to decide if you do it for Yon or Yoff

    in other words, aligning an Y lathe is a bit more tricky, because there is "noise" ( or "variables" ) caused by the enabling/disabling Y axis, and backlash of X&Y

    "noise" also exist on nonY lathes, but is smaller, thus is possible to achieve a better alignment on an nonY lathe; this may sound irelevant, but, if you have aligned many nonY lathes, and suddenly you have to align an Ylathe, you may reach a situation where your centro may start to "float"

    so, with Y lathes, is ok to be more tolerant, don't squeeze your centro for perfection

    always align at a value >= " noise ", and be aware that more axis will induce more " noise "

    i hope you found this usefull
    Ladyhawke - My Delirium, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_bFO1SNRZg

  3. #3

    Re: Okuma osp5000 Y-axis settings

    Thank you so much for the reply! I have the following problem - as soon as i deactivate the Y axis (using G136), the turret runs in rapit th the most negative Y axis direction, hitting the soft limit and trying to get farther causing an overload alarm, or if I am quick enought, I hit the slide stop button and stop it on the way there. Sometimes i can prevent it putting first G0Y0 and bringing the Y axis to 0, then disabling it will not move the y axis at all. I dont know what is wrong. Or if I push the E-stop and release it, it will disable the Y-axis without any rapit movement.

  4. #4
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    Re: Okuma osp5000 Y-axis settings

    Sometimes i can prevent it putting first G0Y0 and bringing the Y axis to 0, then disabling it will not move the y axis at all.
    hy in some cases, i also use g0y0 before g136... but even if i don't use g0y0, g136 will send Y to 0

    I dont know what is wrong.
    me neither ... is like the Y axis knows where it is only in g138

    until you figure this out, try to avoid using Y axis in manual mode, and always use g0y0 inside your programs

    i am sorry, i can provide any help with this
    Ladyhawke - My Delirium, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_bFO1SNRZg

  5. #5
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    Re: Okuma osp5000 Y-axis settings

    First turn single block on and the turn your feed rate down. It will not rapid if you do that. Next it sounds like your Y zero position is off and needs to be reset. You will find the Y axis turning position in your System parameters on that control if I remember right. Move your Y to the zero point and CAL 0 on the Y “home” position. It should insert the correct number in the register for you. You may have to play with both X and Y to get a good indicator reading since it is a compound slide that uses 2 axes to generate the Y position.

    I believe you will have a Y axis manual for the machine?

    Best regards,
    Experience is what you get just after you needed it.

  6. #6

    Re: Okuma osp5000 Y-axis settings

    Thanks for the reply, Okumawiz! That with the single block and feed rate down was a good advice, somehow i did not think of that. Anyway I have set the Y zero position, and still it is doing that weird thing, running to the negative. Thatswhy i am wondering if something is still wrong with the number, or with the machine? I could not get any advice from Okuma service, as the machine is too old, they told me... They have send me one manual, but it is very general. I am still not sure what value to put in into the Turning Position Parameter

  7. #7
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    Re: Okuma osp5000 Y-axis settings

    You are on the right track. The Turning position is the point the turret returns to once the G136 is activated to cancel Y-axis mode. It should be a machine position somewhere between the Stroke end limits at about the middle. Your machine has these numbers written down on the Management Data card in the back of the machine when it comes from the factory - is yours there? If yes, look at the values and re-enter the position. If not, then you will need to re-establish it. You should be able to get the turret in the correct position using a co-axial indicator and then CAL Write when you are on center. It will enter a large machine number from the encoder that makes no sense other than its between the stroke limits.

    What are the values for stroke and the turning positions at now?
    Experience is what you get just after you needed it.

  8. #8

    Re: Okuma osp5000 Y-axis settings

    Looks like now its working right! I had 0.000 at the turning position, now i put in the value that i get after re-establishing the machine zero, some kind of machine number 327.2711 What confused me was that the Ys and Yi numbers are the same after i put this value to the turning position, but probably they are just the same by incident . The Ys X axis angle is at 30 degree, so it should be right, And now it does not run to the most negative after g136, just returning to zero. Thanks for every input, it was a great help! I like those old okuma machines, I have another two LR15-2m machines, they dont have the y-axis, just milling, which is not working properly. One of them just jerks back and forths when engaging the C-axis (M110) till it finilly finds its zero position, probably failing encoder on the main spindle motor? The other one has a stuck milling spindle, is also not used, therefore i would like to disable the BL-D drivers on that machine, as they are failing with time and are costly to replace. They are sitting there just to watch, doing nothing. Someone nows how to safely disable them? There are 4 of them in the left side electrical cabinet.
    Thanks

  9. #9
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    Re: Okuma osp5000 Y-axis settings

    I am still not sure what value to put in into the Turning Position Parameter
    hy aylmer, just like mr wizard said, you can use CALL to set axis position, also program zero and tool offsets

    i was going to sugest you to play with the "turning position parameters", and ask for an image, but i felt you were prety close ...don't be afraid to test

    I had 0.000 at the turning position, now i put in the value that i get after re-establishing the machine zero, some kind of machine number 327.2711
    just like mr wizard said, you should get a ???number, that should be between your stroke's limits

    that is an axis origin, and each time you re-align&reset them, the values should change, but only a bit, thus on the long run, they should be pretty close, like new-old<few_milimiters

    if you had 0 before, and now you have 327+, it may mean that someone tried to edit the parameters, in order to solve the problem that you were facing, perhaps making you suppose that the correct value should be arround 0

    on newer controls, there is no ' turning pos para ', and is also possible to shift the turning position all the way among entire Y axis range; it seems like your machine is looking for the 'turning position parameter' only when g136 occurs at Y<>0 ....

    probably they are just the same by incidend
    no, there is no incident, they have to be like that

    The Ys X axis angle is at 30 degree, so it should be right
    on newer machines, there is a 3 digit parameter to fine tune this angle

    jerks back and forths when engaging the C-axis (M110) till it finilly finds its zero position
    can you see how many degrees is it jerking ? it may be possible to fix this by editing your ipw parameter

    The other one has a stuck milling spindle
    why is it stucked ? did you looked into it ? kindly
    Ladyhawke - My Delirium, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_bFO1SNRZg

  10. #10

    Re: Okuma osp5000 Y-axis settings

    Quote Originally Posted by deadlykitten View Post


    can you see how many degrees is it jerking ? it may be possible to fix this by editing your ipw parameter
    it is jerking a lot - not allways the same, but around maybe 120-180 degree, jerking and shaking back and forth as if looking for the right position, finally find its zero position. What is ipw parameter?

    why is it stucked ? did you looked into it ? kindly
    Maybe seuzed bearing, i would suggest. I did not look furhter into it. Looking to disable the four BL-D drives for that machine and do all the live tool work on my LR15-MY machine

  11. #11
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    Re: Okuma osp5000 Y-axis settings

    What is ipw parameter?
    hy, i don't know where, or if this parameter is available on your machine ...

    however, i am not sure that it will work, since oscilation is huge ( 120-180* )

    it is jerking a lot - not allways the same, but around maybe 120-180 degree
    what if you go m110 wait a few seconds m109 wait again m110 : does it shake again ?

    thus is it always jerking, or only the 1st time you engage it ?

    Maybe seuzed bearing
    M spindle bearings are not big, at least less $$$ than main spindle bearings ... if possible, disamble the M spindle / kindly
    Ladyhawke - My Delirium, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_bFO1SNRZg

  12. #12

    Re: Okuma osp5000 Y-axis settings

    Quote Originally Posted by deadlykitten View Post

    what if you go m110 wait a few seconds m109 wait again m110 : does it shake again ?

    thus is it always jerking, or only the 1st time you engage it ?
    It jerks only the 1st time I engage it

  13. #13
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    Re: Okuma osp5000 Y-axis settings

    I would check your spindle parameters. It sounds like there may be an acceleration/deceleration parameter that could be wrong. Check the numbers on the machine that is working properly and compare them to the numbers on the one that is not. Since it engages smoothly the second time, the larger deceleration parameters are not being used since it is much closer to target position. If it overshooting, the parameter may set so that it is going too fast and cannot decelerate fast enough which causes overshooting target, reverse, overshooting target until it gets to a point that the target is close and switches the parameters to the lower values. There should be about 3 levels of positioning speed - High, medium, low. Focus on the High first. If you encoder were bad, you would most likely get bad readings which causes alarms, so if you are not getting alarms, the encoder may be OK.

    Best regards,
    Experience is what you get just after you needed it.

  14. #14
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    Re: Okuma osp5000 Y-axis settings

    It jerks only the 1st time I engage it
    ok, let's try to get a 2nd time

    Code:
    M110
    G00 C0
    G00 C30*1
    G04 F0.678
    M109
    
    
    M110
    G00 C0
    G00 C30*2
    G04 F0.678
    M109
    
    
    M110
    G00 C0
    G00 C30*3
    G04 F0.678
    M109
    
    
    M110
    G00 C0
    G00 C30*4
    G04 F0.678
    M109
    
    
    M110
    G00 C0
    G00 C30*5
    G04 F0.678
    M109
    
    
    M110
    G00 C0
    G00 C30*6
    G04 F0.678
    M109
    
    
    M110
    G00 C0
    G00 C30*7
    G04 F0.678
    M109
    
    
    M110
    G00 C0
    G00 C30*8
    G04 F0.678
    M109
    
    
    M110
    G00 C0
    G00 C30*9
    G04 F0.678
    M109
    
    
    M110
    G00 C0
    G00 C30*10
    G04 F0.678
    M109
    
    
    M110
    G00 C0
    G00 C30*11
    G04 F0.678
    M109
    does it jerk more arround certain values and less arround others, or it only misses the 1st time ? kindly
    Ladyhawke - My Delirium, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_bFO1SNRZg

  15. #15

    Re: Okuma osp5000 Y-axis settings

    Quote Originally Posted by OkumaWiz View Post
    I would check your spindle parameters. It sounds like there may be an acceleration/deceleration parameter that could be wrong. Check the numbers on the machine that is working properly and compare them to the numbers on the one that is not. Since it engages smoothly the second time, the larger deceleration parameters are not being used since it is much closer to target position. If it overshooting, the parameter may set so that it is going too fast and cannot decelerate fast enough which causes overshooting target, reverse, overshooting target until it gets to a point that the target is close and switches the parameters to the lower values. There should be about 3 levels of positioning speed - High, medium, low. Focus on the High first. If you encoder were bad, you would most likely get bad readings which causes alarms, so if you are not getting alarms, the encoder may be OK.

    Best regards,
    I checked the parameters between the two LR15-2M machines - the one that does not have the jerking problem is i think slightly newer, but exactly same control, and it does not habe the spindle paramerter, but instead has the spindle orientation parameter, with totally different numbers. Then I looked into the LR12-MY machine with a slightly different control (OSP5000L-G vs OSP5020L), and here the spindle parameters totally match the machine with the jerking problem. So i dont think i would change those parameters...

  16. #16

    Re: Okuma osp5000 Y-axis settings

    Quote Originally Posted by deadlykitten View Post
    ok, let's try to get a 2nd time

    Code:
    M110
    G00 C0
    G00 C30*1
    G04 F0.678
    M109
    
    
    M110
    G00 C0
    G00 C30*2
    G04 F0.678
    M109
    
    
    M110
    G00 C0
    G00 C30*3
    G04 F0.678
    M109
    
    
    M110
    G00 C0
    G00 C30*4
    G04 F0.678
    M109
    
    
    M110
    G00 C0
    G00 C30*5
    G04 F0.678
    M109
    
    
    M110
    G00 C0
    G00 C30*6
    G04 F0.678
    M109
    
    
    M110
    G00 C0
    G00 C30*7
    G04 F0.678
    M109
    
    
    M110
    G00 C0
    G00 C30*8
    G04 F0.678
    M109
    
    
    M110
    G00 C0
    G00 C30*9
    G04 F0.678
    M109
    
    
    M110
    G00 C0
    G00 C30*10
    G04 F0.678
    M109
    
    
    M110
    G00 C0
    G00 C30*11
    G04 F0.678
    M109
    does it jerk more arround certain values and less arround others, or it only misses the 1st time ? kindly
    I tried this short program, and yes, it is jerking each time as it was always changing position. If I would do M110 M109 M110 it would not jerk as it would go always to 0

  17. #17
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    Re: Okuma osp5000 Y-axis settings

    What is ipw parameter?
    hy, i am reserved, but try this :
    VINPC = 0.5 ( C axis position will be confirmed within ±0.5 degress )
    G65
    that ' short ' program: instead of G00 C, use G01 C F=500*50 G94 ( should be equivalent to indexing at 50 rpms )
    G64

    if vinpc g65 and g64 does not work, then pls try only the program with g01

    if g94 does not work, then please add sb=1234 m13 after m110, respectively pls add m12 before m109




    if you run this :
    M110
    G00 C0
    G04 F0.6
    G00 C30
    G04 F0.6
    G00 C60
    G04 F0.6
    M109
    is the spindle shaking at each G00 C, or only at M110 ?

    also, if you run this :
    M110
    G01 C0 F=500*50 G94
    G04 F0.6
    G01 C30
    G04 F0.6
    G01 C60
    G04 F0.6
    M109
    is the spindle shaking at each G01 C, or only at M110 ?

    if shaking ocurs only at M110, then search for, and disable ' C axis return to origin ' parameter. and try again
    Ladyhawke - My Delirium, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_bFO1SNRZg

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